The Constructive Criticism Thread

[webxro]

That's great , it will be a great FanFict

[Linda06]

About the stones. The eps I've actually liked best in season 1 is the eps where the stones don't get used. Coincidence? I think not

The ep I disliked the most is probably the ep where the stones are used the most. Coincidence? I think not again

[Skydiver]

Let me remind you kids yet AGAIN

the topic of the thread is con-crit of sgu. It is not the place for 'my show was better than.....' junk. Nor is it the place for you to take 'let me slip this in and claim it's accidental' swipes at other fans or fan groups.

Keep your comments centered around 'this is what I'd like to change about sgu and here's why' or 'this is what works about sgu and here's why' and keep all the lengthy comparison and fan bashing/whinging out of it.

Try to act like the adults some/most of you are.

[Sami_]

About the stones. The eps I've actually liked best in season 1 is the eps where the stones don't get used. Coincidence? I think not

The ep I disliked the most is probably the ep where the stones are used the most. Coincidence? I think not again

I'm kind of on the fence in regard to the stones.

Don't get me wrong, the stories they have had involving the stones have been absolutely terrible but despite that I find myself always wanting to get away from episodes that happen solely on the ship, I don't know whether its the look and feel of the ship or just they haven't had many good episodes but its so draining watching a full episode on Destiny.

The stones are bad but at least its getting the story off the ship and if they remove them its all the more likely the episode will take place solely on the ship, its almost catch 22.

[Stormtrooper]

Personally, I'd like to know how those LRC devices are charged, not to mention how they were promptly reverse engineered by the Tau'ri. I think it would have made much more sense if the Icarus Base survivors eventually found an original LRC device on board Destiny. The device could be hooked up to Destiny's main power grid and consume considerable amounts of energy to establish a connection to other places. I think that by itself would limit the use of the stones. And the main advantage of that, imo, would be that Rush, Eli and the other geeks would have to struggle with the tech in order to establish a connection to Earth. I think I would have liked it better that way. Who knows how many of those LRC devices and stones are out there? Whoever used the stone on board Destiny could end up anywhere the Ancients have ever been in the universe. That along side Destiny and the Stargate itself could have produced some really inspired stories.

[Deevil]

The stones are bad but at least its getting the story off the ship and if they remove them its all the more likely the episode will take place solely on the ship, its almost catch 22.

I don't agree that the stones are bad or that they are a good way of getting away from the ship, but I do agree that they aren't being used wisely. I liked Life and Earth and I think they gave us vital information of the characters and their motivations on the ship, so I am glad we got those episode... but I don't think it's a good idea to use them constantly.

We don't need to see every time Young reports something to O'Neill, that is just needless exposition that they can show us later rather then tell us now. We don't need to have doctors swapped in or even scientists and every turn - I wanna see our people fix their own problems. What's dangerous about the stones is that they become a story writing crutch and so easy to cheat a way out of a problem rather then address it at the story level.

It isn't so bad right now, but it has the potential of getting there (like the transporter tech on SG1). So I would rather that they were used sparingly. Hell, I want (and half expect) Young to put them away at some point when he feels himself, or his command threatened by the orders of Earth. That would be interesting to watch.

[Linda06]

I'm kind of on the fence in regard to the stones.

Don't get me wrong, the stories they have had involving the stones have been absolutely terrible but despite that I find myself always wanting to get away from episodes that happen solely on the ship, I don't know whether its the look and feel of the ship or just they haven't had many good episodes but its so draining watching a full episode on Destiny.

The stones are bad but at least its getting the story off the ship and if they remove them its all the more likely the episode will take place solely on the ship, its almost catch 22.

My fave eps so far are actually eps where they go to a planet rather than the ep being solely on the ship

I don't agree that the stones are bad or that they are a good way of getting away from the ship, but I do agree that they aren't being used wisely. I liked Life and Earth and I think they gave us vital information of the characters and their motivations on the ship, so I am glad we got those episode... but I don't think it's a good idea to use them constantly.

We don't need to see every time Young reports something to O'Neill, that is just needless exposition that they can show us later rather then tell us now. We don't need to have doctors swapped in or even scientists and every turn - I wanna see our people fix their own problems. What's dangerous about the stones is that they become a story writing crutch and so easy to cheat a way out of a problem rather then address it at the story level.

It isn't so bad right now, but it has the potential of getting there (like the transporter tech on SG1). So I would rather that they were used sparingly. Hell, I want (and half expect) Young to put them away at some point when he feels himself, or his command threatened by the orders of Earth. That would be interesting to watch.

I'm the opposite, I couldn't stand Earth and I didn't really like Life all that much either *shrugs*

[PG15]

OK
I'm glad to see that this thread still exists, and as such will try to offer some constructive criticism on SGU.
Bear in mind that this is purely my own personnal opinion and I have no desire to "convert" anyone.

Part 1:
The Communication stones

This seems to be a hot topic of debate, even between the supposed "pro" and "anti" camps. To my mind they are a pretty much a cop-out insofar as how as how they have been used so far in the series. SGA has been critisized (and rightly so) for connecting Atlantis to Earth so quickly and yet SGU has this connection from the pilot episode?? If the story really wants the concept of "alone and cut-off", why on Earth do you need a built in out?? I mean, sure, you can't actually "go home" via the stones, but you can "escape" for a while, pretty much like a holodeck.
Then we move on to exactly what this miracle of tech has been used for? Saying goodbye to your loved ones (who should know nothing about the SGC), making "booty calls" and, for the most part, other innane reasons?? Come on, Even with the one totally reasonable use of the stones (to beam up an expert), the ep gets lumped with yet another inter-galactictic "booty call"

My Fix:
Either bust them to the point where they are so unreliable as to be useless or drop them entirely. They give next to nothing to the storyline and, I would say, detract from the storyline rather than enhancing it. Nearly every character revelation (which I guess is there current use) could be achieved either on board the Destiny, or off planet and still be within the structure of the story. Alternativly, they could use the stones in a manner that anyone with a whit of braincells would do with them, Get useful people on board.

Part 2:
Dark and Gritty

Quite frankly, the show is not dark and gritty. It wants to be, sure, but it fails horribly. Does it have some "dark and gritty" idea's, sure, but once again, like SGA, it just does not deliver on them. ATM, SGU is hovering in the "grey area" between "hero's and villains" (not exactly the correct analogy, but you guys can think, right?) and to me, it only harms the show. For example, Rush get marooned and in the next ep comes back, Chloe, Scott and Eli get left behind and in 2 eps come back, Wray and Rush stage a mutiny, but once Rush gets back, the consequences gets swept under the rug. How in hell is that "dark and gritty"?

My Fix:
Go one way or the other, Either make it truly dark (and by dark, I mean Sin City/Pulp Fiction/Seven dark) or give up on the idea and go back to the humor/action/adventure that SG is known for.

Hmm, better stop now. I have more points, but I think if I really get revved up I may go off point and I have no desire to so.

Peace

I am offended, sir. This post is terrible and must be deleted by the mods. I shall inform them of my demand immediately.



But seriously...

Quite frankly, the show is not dark and gritty. It wants to be, sure, but it fails horribly. Does it have some "dark and gritty" idea's, sure, but once again, like SGA, it just does not deliver on them. ATM, SGU is hovering in the "grey area" between "hero's and villains" (not exactly the correct analogy, but you guys can think, right?) and to me, it only harms the show. For example, Rush get marooned and in the next ep comes back, Chloe, Scott and Eli get left behind and in 2 eps come back, Wray and Rush stage a mutiny, but once Rush gets back, the consequences gets swept under the rug. How in hell is that "dark and gritty"?

I disagree. Being in the "grey area" is exactly where it should be since that's how real life works, and that's what SGU has been trying to do since the beginning - be realistic.

You ask what happened to the consequences after Rush came back, but you answered yourself one sentence earlier. The consequences were a mutiny and a realization on both sides that hostilities must stop.

[Gatefan1976]

I disagree. Being in the "grey area" is exactly where it should be since that's how real life works, and that's what SGU has been trying to do since the beginning - be realistic.

Fair enough PG15. Personally, I don't see the "realism" that you seem to, but I think that stems from a different group of issues I have with the show (which are off-topic and thus will not be mentioned)

You ask what happened to the consequences after Rush came back, but you answered yourself one sentence earlier. The consequences were a mutiny and a realization on both sides that hostilities must stop.

Yeah, poor choice of sentence structure on my part
What I meant to convey is that for all the issue's that come up (the mutiny, leaving people behind, Telford's brainwashing and so on), TPTB seem just as readily smack the "'ol reset button" as hard as they do in both SG-1 and SGA (which, for the sake of clarity, really annoyed me in both of them as well) If you want to run a "good serialised show" IMHO, you have to keep your hand well away from the reset button and just let the arc flow where it will or, alternatively, make sure that any issues raised are either resolved or referenced in future eps.
Once again, I'm not trying to "convert" anyone, we are all individuals and see everything in our own unique way, Life would sure be boring if we were all the same.

Peace

[PG15]

Well, I don't know about converting or not converting, but I definitely agree with you about that reset button issue. I can't deny that I was a bit disappointed about how fast Rush's and Scott, Chloe, and Eli's stranded...ness got wrapped up. They could've gone in so many directions with those storylines. As is, it felt like the writers knew that the story would progress to those places naturally, but couldn't figure out how it would connect to their overall seasonal plan, and so scuttled them so they can press on with their pre-planned arc.

As an amature writer, having these story threads that you can run with is the best thing ever - it gives you a grander, more serialized story and you don't have to constantly think up new plotlines; you just extend the ones you have to their natural conclusion!

[Sami_]

Well, I don't know about converting or not converting, but I definitely agree with you about that reset button issue. I can't deny that I was a bit disappointed about how fast Rush's and Scott, Chloe, and Eli's stranded...ness got wrapped up. They could've gone in so many directions with those storylines. As is, it felt like the writers knew that the story would progress to those places naturally, but couldn't figure out how it would connect to their overall seasonal plan, and so scuttled them so they can press on with their pre-planned arc.

As an amature writer, having these story threads that you can run with is the best thing ever - it gives you a grander, more serialized story and you don't have to constantly think up new plotlines; you just extend the ones you have to their natural conclusion!

It seems to be quite common for them to wrap things up within an episode or two, its like everything has to be exactly how they left it when they're done so the next writer doesn't have to take certain events into consideration.

When they have stories running concurrently its called a B story or C story right? the SGU writers seem incapable of doing this. It might just be their writing setup, maybe they are writing scripts too independantly of each other and its hard for them to colaborate on complicated plots for an entire season.

Whatever the reason its very frustrating, even dynamics between characters you expect to play out over an entire season get wrapped up within an episode and they are acting like something never happened.

[Deevil]

When they have stories running concurrently its called a B story or C story right?

Yup yup yup some shows even manage a D and E and still have it make sense.

I think we do have a couple of B storyline running around that haven't been wrapped up, but that just aren't always fully engaged in the episodes.

IMHO The show needs to figure out what it is. Is it an action/adventure show like SG1 and SGA (I don't think it is, but it could prove to be) is it more dramatic and complex? Is it a meditation on human nature?

Once they figure out that, I think they can figure out how to arch the characters and the stories to best suit the mood they are going for - dark. And by dark, what do they (or us as fans) really mean?

TPTB just don't seem to have a cohesive idea of what the show is and the potential of the show is being squandered because of it.

[Sami_]

TPTB just don't seem to have a cohesive idea of what the show is and the potential of the show is being squandered because of it.

Yeah thats how I see it pretty much, every now and then I see the beginnings of an interesting story and it either just stops dead and doesn't get expanded on or gets wrap up almost instantly.

The blues story has stopped dead to the point where we're not even sure if they are still following and the planet builders story wasn't expanded on at all - we're not even sure they exist. The only ongoing story we have is the Lucian Alliance which has been done quite well but taken far too long to get here.

They could really start fixing these issues by running a B story, it would move the plot along at a better pace and expand on stories rather than setting them aside when something else comes up.

[Dex Luther]

The blues story has stopped dead to the point where we're not even sure if they are still following and the planet builders story wasn't expanded on at all - we're not even sure they exist.

If all these questions were already answered, they would have that much less to tell in season 2 and onwards.


--This was posted from my iPod--

[PG15]

It seems to be quite common for them to wrap things up within an episode or two, its like everything has to be exactly how they left it when they're done so the next writer doesn't have to take certain events into consideration.

When they have stories running concurrently its called a B story or C story right? the SGU writers seem incapable of doing this. It might just be their writing setup, maybe they are writing scripts too independantly of each other and its hard for them to colaborate on complicated plots for an entire season.

It's not their writing setup. The writers do pretty much everything together except for the actual writing of the scripts. The season arc, the beats of an episode, the notes on a finished draft - they're all done by committee.

I was very careful to single out the Rush and Scott/Eli/Chloe plot points as being disappointing, because those are the worst offenders IMHO. For the most part I'm pretty happy with the rest of the series. For instance, I see plenty of "B/C/D plots" throughout the season, but they are more character throughlines rather than full-out "stuff happening" plots.

For instance, the animosity between Young and Rush is there pretty much every time they talk to each other; same thing with Eli and Chloe's thing. TJ's pregnancy and Young's reactions to it were featured at least once in every episode after Lost, etc. etc. With the way the show is structured - Destiny travelling all the time - it's hard to have any continuing plots that don't involve just the characters on the ship. You can't have a Goa'uld or Wraith-like arc unless the enemy is either chasing them (and even then there'd only be something when they catch up, i.e. the Blues), or is found in a huge volume of space that Destiny will need a lot of time to cross, which may still yet happen. It's just how it is.