Why is the IOA still allowed to exist?

[aretood2]

Don’t try to find excuses for the horrific things that America has done. I don’t try to excuse the fact that Britain rode roughshod over the world during the days of the Empire, every country has unpleasant parts of their history as well as things to be proud of. America is no different.

I have lost all hope in you. this saddens me

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

I have lost all hope in you. this saddens me

Boohoo, I’m sure I’ll manage.

[s09119]

Boohoo, I’m sure I’ll manage.

You know his comment about Turkey (which started all this) was a joke, right?

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

You know his comment about Turkey (which started all this) was a joke, right?

Maybe it was but his next post was a serious response to mine so its swings and roundabouts really.

[aretood2]

Maybe it was but his next post was a serious response to mine so its swings and roundabouts really.

That tends to happen, yes.

[Rac80]

The fact remains that racism and anti Semitism were common, while the KKK was declared a terrorist group, that didn’t stop them having between 4 and 5 million members in the 1920’s. That’s pretty frightening numbers.

That number is vastly exaggerated...try one tenth of that - located mostly in the Deep South (note: I said mostly) - all Democrats (which is the party of our current dear leader president. (Lincoln if you don't know was a republican...yep a right-wing nut job according to some. ) Given the population of the usa in 1920 was 121 million...that doesn't seem excessive IMHO.

What was done would have been done by any country given the opportunity. Don't forget who gave us slavery, Hatred for natives (Catholics did conversions while British Protestants did the whole I kills you thing). Then what off India? hmm...The slave trade? hmmm. South Africa? Hmmm.

Well at least we don't try to hide our atrocities like some other countries..(you know who you are).

We are still succeeding in that "grand experiment" of deomcracy and have helped the world in general more than we have hurt. we are not an imperialist nation (ie go to war take territory and keep it) and have freed many from the oppression of slavery (we are still the only western country to go to WAR to free the enslaved in our own nation--- something tells me the response to death camps in the USA would have been the same....some of us are born rebels...yep myself included!) both at home and abroad. "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free" aren't just words but facts of life for every American. Unlike some other countries we enjoy freedom of speech, the press, religion, the right to bear arms, the right of assembly, and the right to redress. We are a blessed land...nope not going to apologize for that (not the great Barry here! ) and the world is better off because we exist, again merely IMHO. but each and every person can feel that way about their land, each has much to offer and has things to be ashamed of (ok some more than others ) if to make yourself feel better you need to be anti-American *shrugs* so be it...no skin off my nose.
I am a "typical" American--- english, scottish, irish, native american, jewish, italian, & french ancestry: my ancestors & relatives were already here, came on the Mayflower, were thrown ourt of Ireland for being rebels, were fleeing the Prussian war, fleeing persecution for being jews, tried at Salem, fought in the french and indian war, fought in the revolutionary war (yep on both sides but we don't talk about the tory ), blockaded the mississippi in the civil war, attended harvard, yale, and west point, were soldiers, sailors, fishermen, impressed into the British Navy , ministers, rouges and scoundrels, threw a tea party in boston habor, shot at the redcoats in Concord, charged up san juan hill with the rough riders, fought in the pacific and european theaters in WWII, was a doughboy in WWI, stood on the berlin wall when it fell, were the nations earliest abolitionists, never owned slaves, fought in Korea and Vietnam, the first Gulf War and is currently in Afghanistan. Due to my ancestry I can usually argue both sides of an argument!
*steps off soapbox*


now what was the topic? oh the IOA... bureaucracy is like a replicator...it is insidious and will always be there....

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

That number is vastly exaggerated...try one tenth of that - located mostly in the Deep South (note: I said mostly) - all Democrats (which is the party of our current dear leader president. (Lincoln if you don't know was a republican...yep a right-wing nut job according to some. ) Given the population of the usa in 1920 was 121 million...that doesn't seem excessive IMHO.



We are still succeeding in that "grand experiment" of deomcracy and have helped the world in general more than we have hurt. we are not an imperialist nation (ie go to war take territory and keep it) and have freed many from the oppression of slavery (we are still the only western country to go to WAR to free the enslaved in our own nation--- something tells me the response to death camps in the USA would have been the same....some of us are born rebels...yep myself included!) both at home and abroad. "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free" aren't just words but facts of life for every American. Unlike some other countries we enjoy freedom of speech, the press, religion, the right to bear arms, the right of assembly, and the right to redress. We are a blessed land...nope not going to apologize for that (not the great Barry here! ) and the world is better off because we exist, again merely IMHO. but each and every person can feel that way about their land, each has much to offer and has things to be ashamed of (ok some more than others ) if to make yourself feel better you need to be anti-American *shrugs* so be it...no skin off my nose.
I am a "typical" American--- english, scottish, irish, native american, jewish, italian, & french ancestry: my ancestors & relatives were already here, came on the Mayflower, were thrown ourt of Ireland for being rebels, were fleeing the Prussian war, fleeing persecution for being jews, tried at Salem, fought in the french and indian war, fought in the revolutionary war (yep on both sides but we don't talk about the tory ), blockaded the mississippi in the civil war, attended harvard, yale, and west point, were soldiers, sailors, fishermen, impressed into the British Navy , ministers, rouges and scoundrels, threw a tea party in boston habor, shot at the redcoats in Concord, charged up san juan hill with the rough riders, fought in the pacific and european theaters in WWII, was a doughboy in WWI, stood on the berlin wall when it fell, were the nations earliest abolitionists, never owned slaves, fought in Korea and Vietnam, the first Gulf War and is currently in Afghanistan. Due to my ancestry I can usually argue both sides of an argument!
*steps off soapbox*


now what was the topic? oh the IOA... bureaucracy is like a replicator...it is insidious and will always be there....

You really have a bee in your bonnet about democrats, apparently that vaunted freedom of speech only applies to people who agree with you.

As for America its done some brilliant things for the world, on the other hand it’s done some pretty horrific stuff as well. America has dabbled in Imperialism, the whole stealing of the native lands(which incidentally is a major cause of the War of independence, the colonists were angry that the British government had refused to allow them to expand further as the British government had made treaties with native tribes protecting their lands), the invasions of the Philippines, Hawaii, forcing Cuba to become a protectorate. You were also rather late to the whole banning slavery thing, Britain had banned slave trading a good 50 years prior to America and fully banned slavery 20years after that.

However America has generally been a force for good in the world, that doesn’t mean your country is whiter than white though. Germany committed the holocaust, America caused the trail of tears, the British invented the concentration camp, every nation has its darker moments as well as its moments to be proud of. Declaring ones country morally superior to everyone else’s however doesn’t lead to good things however.

[aretood2]

We are still succeeding in that "grand experiment" of deomcracy and have helped the world in general more than we have hurt. we are not an imperialist nation (ie go to war take territory and keep it) and have freed many from the oppression of slavery (we are still the only western country to go to WAR to free the enslaved in our own nation--- something tells me the response to death camps in the USA would have been the same....some of us are born rebels...yep myself included!) both at home and abroad. "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free" aren't just words but facts of life for every American. Unlike some other countries we enjoy freedom of speech, the press, religion, the right to bear arms, the right of assembly, and the right to redress. We are a blessed land...nope not going to apologize for that (not the great Barry here! ) and the world is better off because we exist, again merely IMHO. but each and every person can feel that way about their land, each has much to offer and has things to be ashamed of (ok some more than others ) if to make yourself feel better you need to be anti-American *shrugs* so be it...no skin off my nose.
I am a "typical" American--- english, scottish, irish, native american, jewish, italian, & french ancestry: my ancestors & relatives were already here, came on the Mayflower, were thrown ourt of Ireland for being rebels, were fleeing the Prussian war, fleeing persecution for being jews, tried at Salem, fought in the french and indian war, fought in the revolutionary war (yep on both sides but we don't talk about the tory ), blockaded the mississippi in the civil war, attended harvard, yale, and west point, were soldiers, sailors, fishermen, impressed into the British Navy , ministers, rouges and scoundrels, threw a tea party in boston habor, shot at the redcoats in Concord, charged up san juan hill with the rough riders, fought in the pacific and european theaters in WWII, was a doughboy in WWI, stood on the berlin wall when it fell, were the nations earliest abolitionists, never owned slaves, fought in Korea and Vietnam, the first Gulf War and is currently in Afghanistan. Due to my ancestry I can usually argue both sides of an argument!
*steps off soapbox*


now what was the topic? oh the IOA... bureaucracy is like a replicator...it is insidious and will always be there....

great...now I feel the need to sing something patriotic...

[Flyboy]

You really have a bee in your bonnet about democrats, apparently that vaunted freedom of speech only applies to people who agree with you.

As for America its done some brilliant things for the world, on the other hand it’s done some pretty horrific stuff as well. America has dabbled in Imperialism, the whole stealing of the native lands(which incidentally is a major cause of the War of independence, the colonists were angry that the British government had refused to allow them to expand further as the British government had made treaties with native tribes protecting their lands), the invasions of the Philippines, Hawaii, forcing Cuba to become a protectorate. You were also rather late to the whole banning slavery thing, Britain had banned slave trading a good 50 years prior to America and fully banned slavery 20years after that.

However America has generally been a force for good in the world, that doesn’t mean your country is whiter than white though. Germany committed the holocaust, America caused the trail of tears, the British invented the concentration camp, every nation has its darker moments as well as its moments to be proud of. Declaring ones country morally superior to everyone else’s however doesn’t lead to good things however.

Don't forget the morally ambiguous Operation Paper Clip.

[aretood2]

You really have a bee in your bonnet about democrats, apparently that vaunted freedom of speech only applies to people who agree with you.

I don't comment on your political divisions. She said nothing about stoping democrats from talking.

As for America its done some brilliant things for the world, on the other hand it’s done some pretty horrific stuff as well. America has dabbled in Imperialism, the whole stealing of the native lands(which incidentally is a major cause of the War of independence, the colonists were angry that the British government had refused to allow them to expand further as the British government had made treaties with native tribes protecting their lands), the invasions of the Philippines, Hawaii, forcing Cuba to become a protectorate. You were also rather late to the whole banning slavery thing, Britain had banned slave trading a good 50 years prior to America and fully banned slavery 20years after that.

And the south was made dependent on slave labor thanks to British design so much that some wanted to put slavery as a list of grievances in the decloration of Independence. Many of the northern colonies after independence began to phase out legal slavery. You can't blame america as a whole for slavery. Given the dates for emancipation in some states, the US beat the UK at emancipation. Slavery was not popular in the states at all.

Like I said earlier, The US has not done anything that any other country wouldn't do given the chance.

[Rac80]

You really have a bee in your bonnet about democrats, apparently that vaunted freedom of speech only applies to people who agree with you.

As for America its done some brilliant things for the world, on the other hand it’s done some pretty horrific stuff as well. America has dabbled in Imperialism, the whole stealing of the native lands(which incidentally is a major cause of the War of independence, the colonists were angry that the British government had refused to allow them to expand further as the British government had made treaties with native tribes protecting their lands), the invasions of the Philippines, Hawaii, forcing Cuba to become a protectorate. You were also rather late to the whole banning slavery thing, Britain had banned slave trading a good 50 years prior to America and fully banned slavery 20years after that.

However America has generally been a force for good in the world, that doesn’t mean your country is whiter than white though. Germany committed the holocaust, America caused the trail of tears, the British invented the concentration camp, every nation has its darker moments as well as its moments to be proud of. Declaring ones country morally superior to everyone else’s however doesn’t lead to good things however.

sorry there were many reasons for the war of independence-- nothing to do with "native lands" though... as one of my ancestors said...."they can bunk soldiers in any home without recompense, there is no trial by jury, no writs or warrents required, no recourse to the abuses of the appointed officials"...yep he was lawyer. of course the #1 reason was "no taxation without representation". hence the tea in Boston Harbor.
I never said others couldn't express their ideas... "i made disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"- freedom of speech matters deeply to me- it's one of the greatest freedoms this country offers, but there are those in congress who hate the voice of the opposition you know! hence the second ammendment.

never said my country was whiter than white...we are the "great melting pot" after all!

[thekillman]

can we get this back on topic again?

[morrismike]

can we get this back on topic again?

I started a new thread on public disclosure. No need for secrecy = no need for IOA.

[Flyboy]

I started a new thread on public disclosure. No need for secrecy = no need for IOA.

Incorrect.

If that were true then we wouldn't have the NATO Council, or indeed the NATO-Russia Council.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

can we get this back on topic again?

What topic, this thread is unrelentingly stupid. The fact is we’ve just spent 35 pages wittering over a fictional organisation, and, after this lengthy naval gazing what conclusion have we come to? Oh yes none were too busy having a “my country is morally superior” argument than actually addressing the issue at hand.

The IOA exists because in tv shows it’s a good plot device to have a higher up organisation to rail against, the higher ups who don’t have any idea what it’s like on the ground, it makes the characters look more maverick because audiences love characters who don’t just stick to the rules. In the past this role was filled by the Pentagon and people like Senator Kinsey, with the stargate revealed to the other countries the IOA now serves a twofold purpose, one providing that high command, the authority over our characters which they can argue against sometimes but two it also reinforces the idea that the Stargate program is supported by the world, that way whatever country you’re in you can still root for the characters, they aren’t just fighting for the US, they’re fighting for the world. This system isn’t going to go away, the US isn’t going to replace the IOA in a coup, ever. Why? Well that huge world market for Stargate will disappear and also the shows written by a bunch of Canadians, so there’s about as much likelihood of the major characters of the Stargate verse being revealed as members of the KKK as their is of them turning round and saying “I know removing the IOA and replacing it with American hegemony over the world using our advanced technology is a good idea.”