SGU stargate glyphs

[lordofseas]

What I'm thinking is that Rush made the computer believe that they were on Earth, like changing their location on a Galactic GPS. The laptop dialing program recognized the place as Earth, and showed the corresponding PoO.

[JacksonClone]

I have an idea.

We know the point of origin is not locked in on each gate (the symbol is, but not the actual location in space). The point of origin can be re-programmed as long as you know where in space you are. EDIT: In fact, we know from "Avenger 2.0" that any of the symbols on the gate can be reprogrammed. It'd be like telling "A" on a keyboard to send the signal "01001001" to the computer and show "I" instead of "A" (A's binary code is 01000001, if the source I quickly found is accurate).

In order for the gate to pick up what "Earth" means as a point in space, it needs 6 points in space in order to pinpoint where Earth is. (Note that you only need 6 points for the specific point in 3D space).

Since Icarus Base was using Earth-based computers to manually dial the gate, it's possible that the computer could interpret Earth's 6-point "address" as the Earth point of origin if it needed to show it on a computer screen. (Either that or the programmer thought it'd be easier to show it as a point everyone on the base knows).

Could it be possible that:

1) They re-programmed any one of the 38 non-unique symbols on the gate to represent Earth's point or origin?

2) The stargate address was something like this:

Chevron 1-6: The Destiny gate address based on Milky Way constellations.
Chevron 7: A constellation from the Milky Way that's always along Destiny's flight path (for the extra distance calculation for dialing another galaxy? I've never understood how this chevron works for intergalactic dialing).
Chevron 8: Icarus Base's point of origin.
Chevron 9: The "password" to let Destiny know to accept the incoming wormhole. The "password" would be Earth's point in space, with Icarus Base reprogramming one of the 38 non-unique constellation symbols not used already to dial the Destiny.

And yes, I get that Chevron 9 under my thought process defeats the purpose of an "authentication code" built into the gates, but would it also not be possible for the Destiny gate, being much older than the Milky Way gates, to not have that authentication code built in?

I have no canon support for any of this, and I'm sure I've missed something that makes no sense, so feel free to point out any problems with this idea.

[escyos]

you cant subsitute point of origins, if you move a gate, the poo changes, earth was always the pyramid with the circle (At) that one in Solitudes, wasnt the right poo, thats why the gate never worked (and i am assuming that carter tried other adresses)

[JacksonClone]

you cant subsitute point of origins, if you move a gate, the poo changes, earth was always the pyramid with the circle (At) that one in Solitudes, wasnt the right poo, thats why the gate never worked (and i am assuming that carter tried other adresses)

The reason it didn't work is because an Earth gate was trying to dial an Earth gate.

It doesn't matter the symbol on the gate, but rather the point in space it represents.

Let's say Earth's point in space were represented by A-T-F-O-P-R (just some random letters to prove a point).

The "Alpha Gate" (with the pyramid symbol) saw "pyramid" as "A-T-F-O-P-R".

The "Beta Gate" (the one from "Solitudes") saw whatever its Point of Origin symbol was as "A-T-F-O-P-R", as well, so it sees that it's trying to dial itself and can't complete the dialing sequence.


Daniel said as much with this line (from Stargate Wiki):

DANIEL
(To Teal'c)
What happens when you dial your own phone number?
(He looks at Teal'c's blank face.)
Wrong person to ask.
(To Hammond)
What happens when you dial your own phone number?

HAMMOND
You get a busy signal.

DANIEL
Exactly. What else could cause a vibration like that unless if they were trying to dial home? They couldn't get through. I mean, even if their seventh symbol looked different, the coordinates of the two gates would still be exactly the same.

[Dobberman]

But does it actruly show the gate with the Earth PoO on it? I was under the impression that it was shown on a computer screen.

Actually no it doesn't show the actual chevron locking. However during a close up of the gate spinning you can see Earth's PoO lol. Well I guess we can put that down to using stock props

In which case, couldn't that simply mean that Rush tricked the gate/gatenetwork into thinking that Ic-Bases PoO was Earths?

What I'm thinking is that Rush made the computer believe that they were on Earth, like changing their location on a Galactic GPS. The laptop dialing program recognized the place as Earth, and showed the corresponding PoO.

We know the point of origin is not locked in on each gate (the symbol is, but not the actual location in space). The point of origin can be re-programmed as long as you know where in space you are.

I like this idea! However, if you can fool a gate to use any old point of origin and still open a wormhole doesnt that kinda mean that the point of origin is actually unnecessary for forming one?

you cant subsitute point of origins, if you move a gate, the poo changes, earth was always the pyramid with the circle (At) that one in Solitudes, wasnt the right poo, thats why the gate never worked (and i am assuming that carter tried other adresses)

The gate didn't work because Carter was dialing Earth while on Earth. It was never stated that the she dialed other addresses and it was implied that she didn't. The gate was at Antarctica near the Ancient outpost, it makes sense it was put there by the Ancients.

[AK89]

This COULD be explained with automatic correlative updates. If every gate in the network was updated when Ra brought the giza gate then as far as any other gate is concerned, the pyramid and the circle mean earth.

[apollo22]

From what i understand when watching, when doctor rush pushes the technician out of the way and stops dialing earth, he is taking time between each lock and is typing on the computer which suggests that as the gate is dialing, he is tricking it into thinking it is on earth.

Also, you guys are looking way to much into this, the reason that we always see the earth pyramid PoO is because they always use the same gate for the shots and they reuse shots of the gate activating, it would cost to much to redue the cgi for every time they dial a new address from off world and show a unique PoO. Its called practicality.

the only unique PoO that i can recall them ever showing was the one where they get trapped in the chairs and are put in a virtual reality by the keeper. it was a tornado like symbol.

[escyos]

please re-read my post, i said i assumed she tried other addresses.
and what about SGU the point of origin was the pyramid with the circle, despite not being on earth, and earth was where the ship was launched from (we were told by the producers) so its safe to assume that it was the ancients home base

[zorviny]

I was going to guess more of a number system, as then this would be more of a mathematical problem then.

[JedI Master of the Gate]

I like this idea! However, if you can fool a gate to use any old point of origin and still open a wormhole doesnt that kinda mean that the point of origin is actually unnecessary for forming one?

Well didn't Eli suggest it might be a code.
I mean lets face it, the Destiny has been moving for Thousands/Hundreds of Thousands/Millions of years, it couldn't still have the same address. I can't help but think that the address/code they dailed is somesort of "cheat" thats built into the gates... or something like that, in order to reach the Destiny

[Matthew486DX]

Let me sum this up

1. Yes, using the primary 38 constellations as PoO's on Off-World Gates is lazyness by TPTB and I dislike it. They are supposed to have unique symbols.

2. Constellations and PoO's, are nothing more than dumbing the Gate Network down for dumber people to use. They're like a Graphical User Interface instead of the more complicated Command Line Interface.
The Tau'ri Dialing computers are like developer's tools.

They can change things in how the Gate works and make it do different things that you can't normally do through a DHD alone. EG. Force a connection in unsafe circumstances (Red SKy, SG-1). If you watch SG-1 Avenger 2.0, they create a virus that scrambles the coordinates in the DHDs. Like re-configuring which letters pop up when you press a key on your keyboard.

It is likely that, the Point of Origin, is 1 symbol, that actually represents the 6 Symbols for that planet in the configuration file. So it doesn't MATTER what the 'symbol' actually IS or Looks like. It doesn't matter if it's the pyramid or the Antartic Gate symbol. It's about the configuration, not the symbol.


For example. Dialing Abydos

Taurus, Serpents Caput, Capricorn, Monoceros, Sagitarious, Orion, Earth PoO

The Abydos Gate gets data sent to it. The Earth Gate References it's PoO, which in it's configuration says PoO = Auriga, Cetus, Cancer, Centaurus, Scotum, Eridanus.

Abydos Gate, oh, I'm getting a connection, and it's from, Auriga, Cetus, Cancer, Centaurus, Scotum, Eridanus. I'm Active and unblocked a wormhole can form. Send data back to Earth Gate. Earth Gate is Ready, Wormhole Established.

It's like Computers. In order to send data over the Internet, the computer has to know the Destination IP, but the Destination IP also needs to know the Source IP, where the data is coming from.

A PoO =//= Gate Address, covers 0.1 Light years. Basically an entire Solar System, more or less. This is with normal 7 Symbol Addresses.

As it's been speculated before, the 8 symbol addresses probably cover an entire Galaxy or a significant portion of one, at least

In Before I Sleep, Janus said he blocked all Incoming wormholes to Atlantis, except for from Earth. Perhaps the Ancients did the same thing to the Destiny, it was their ship afterall. Maybe they didn't want anyone else getting to it?

Since Icarus was only 21 light years from Earth, it's probably the closest we've ever heard of a Stargate on a planet being to Earth. So, with a big huge Intergalactic 9 Symbol Address, maybe Icarus was close enough to Earth that the coordinates still worked so it didn't matter. Maybe Earth's coordinates are like the PoO for the Entire MW Galaxy.

Since the Destiny is so far out. With only landmarks/constellations as guideposts to plotting a destination, it can't be all that accurate.

With that being said, it's been speculated before on this forum that, Atlantis' Stargate is probably the Alpha Omega Stargate of the Pegasus Galaxy, with it's special City DHD and all Intergalactic wormholes would probably default there. Probably the same the Destiny. And I agree with this.

[diMaggio]

Wow, just slept a few hours and 21 answers already.
Ok, let's dive in!^^

no one saved anyones lives, Dr Rush put everyone on the destiny cause he stopped the dialing process going to earth, they would have been home if Rush didn't push the technician out of the way, so they would NOT have died, pay attention people.

Yes, but still they DID cancel the dial and tried the new coordinates because they THOUGHT they had the coordinates right this time. But the important point I'm making here was that they still didn't KNOW. It was basically just following a hunch from Eli.
If Ra wouldn't have brought this other gate to earth in the past, the use of earth's original PoO wouldn't have been successful. And since the base pretty much exploded shortly after that, they wouldn't have had enough time to dial earth again.
But as I said it was more of a funny thought, because if Ra would've never brought the gate in the past, the show would've simply worked in another way.^^

[...] But does it actruly show the gate with the Earth PoO on it? I was under the impression that it was shown on a computer screen.
In which case, couldn't that simply mean that Rush tricked the gate/gatenetwork into thinking that Ic-Bases PoO was Earths?

That's a very interesting thought and could very well explain the error away.
Probably their Gate actually had another symbol as the PoO but they just used to represent it in their usual way.

I thought the point of origin symbol was dependant on the planet and its relative position, not the gate that was on the planet.
I think it's a bit simpler than what everybody is making out. I think every galaxy has a 'hub', if you will (Earth in Milky Way, Atlantis in Pegasus) and, when dialing a 9-symbol address, you use the hub's point of origin instead of the the planet's, so the hub's point of origin because the point of origin for a whole galaxy.

True, but the symbol they used still wasn't originally the one from earth (pyramid with circle).

@JacksonClone:
You're right, the symbols can be reprogrammed.
And it didn't matter how the symbol looked when they used it as the PoO on earth. But read on and I'll explain why in SG Universe it now was important, how the symbol they chose looked.


To update my original thoughts:
IF Ra had the ability to "update" how the PoO symbol on a Stargate looks, he might have just done that and the pyramid may well be the real PoO depiction of earth. But why then is the one of the beta gate different? You tell me. I just think they did some continuity errors here, which isn't really a big problem for me, as long as they stay consistent with one explanation and don't change regularly.
So if they use the pyramid symbol as the earth's original PoO symbol and keep using it that way, then it's fine to me. It didn't matter in the past anyway, because when dialling ANY address from earth, the only important thing was that the last symbol they entered into the gate was the "button" that represented the Gate's PoO button. And it didn't matter how it looked, since it's underlying function for dialling other addresses remained always the same.
It's like the function of the "Enter" key on a keyboard remains the same, no matter what you write on it. BUT, since the symbol was now essential in the address to dial the Destiny, and doing this actually from ANOTHER gate on ANOTHER planet, the specific use of the pyramid symbol and what it originally represents IS important!
Because now it didn't serve as the PoO function it normally did or else they would've had to use Icarus' PoO symbol. They had to use the pyramid symbol though, which means the Ancients had this particular symbol (and therefore its planet/system) in mind.

IF, as I earlier said, the guy (forgot his name again) who said "earth" in the pilot was indeed right, then you could say they remained fully consistent.
So then in the universe of Stargate Universe (no pun intended) the pyramid symbol has ALWAYS been the original symbol of earth, just forget about the beta gate's different symbol.^^

[Nitegate]

no one saved anyones lives, Dr Rush put everyone on the destiny cause he

Spoiler:

stopped the dialing process going to earth, they would have been home if Rush didn't push the technician out of the way, so they would NOT have died.

pay attention people.

[dbenno8]

Okay, so if the new glyphs are like numbers (or similar) and the gate addresses in SGU are more like codes than positions in space (that previous gates/series used), then that would make travel to and from moving gates easy, wouldn't it? Connecting to a gate according to its own unique identifier would be simpler than trying to connect to one depending on where it is situated in the universe. In which case, it would make getting back to Destiny easy, as long as the crew knows (or can figure out) their gate's 'code'. And it wouldn't matter where the gate was, or will be, because it wouldn't affect the ability to connect to it ...with this new gate system. Unless proximity is an issue, like being unable to call a mobile/cell phone that is out of range of the caller.

Also, the origin of these glyph symbols... We can only assume they're Ancient. But they don't look like the standard Ancient language. Is it simply a different font, typeface or Ancient alphabet? Nothing says they're of the one Ancient nation, there could be many. Or another language entirely, perhaps another race? It would make sense that it was Ancient, though, considering they are the gate builders. Or perhaps they had invented (or merely used) a form of symbols that are universal (in the truest sense of the word) so it can be read absolutely anywhere.

Still, I can't wait for a real explanation from the show! *wriggles in seat expectantly*

[diMaggio]

You don't have to tell me twice that I have to pay attention. I did.
You are missing my point though:

Spoiler:

As you said yourself: he DID push the technician out of the way trying to dial the Destiny based on Eli's hunch.
My point now is that if Eli's hunch (for reasons already mentioned above) would've been wrong, they most probably would've died, because it wouldn't have worked to dial Destiny.

If you would've said they could've still survived, because they had around 3-6 minutes to dial earth again, then that would've been different.