I wish there could be a show that has NOTHING to do the the Ancients

[Flyboy]

Personally, I want Stargate to be a saga. And sagas have connections beyond the loose connections of mere series. If they are going to introduce a whole new powerful race with no connections to the Four Race Alliance there needs to be a d*** good reason for it.

The Lost Tribe spoiler:

Spoiler:

Because of that I think it was important that the "new" race in the Pegasus Galaxy turned out to be the Asgard.

How about... the universe is massive and the four races can't get everywhere, and superpowers are bound to spring up all over the place...

[SheilaJane47]

The Ancients have been a key part of the mythology since season two, really... in The Fifth Race. I agree that we should start branching out again, but, remember, the Nox, Furlings, and Asguard were all members of the alliance that the Ancients were also a part of. It is entirely plausible that Universe will allow us to get insites into those races as well, as they are interconnected with the Ancients.

[ASAKATA]

Asking for a Stargate show that has nothing to do with Ancients is like asking for a Battlestar Galactica show without Cylons, or Star Trek show with no Vulcans, impossible and implausible. I love those uppity better than thou Ancients, lol

[Flyboy]

Asking for a Stargate show that has nothing to do with Ancients is like asking for a Battlestar Galactica show without Cylons, or Star Trek show with no Vulcans, impossible and implausible. I love those uppity better than thou Ancients, lol

For the last time.

NO.

IT.

ISN'T.

If SG1 S1-6 can get by with mentioning the Ancients only in passing until "Frozen", then why do you think having a show that doesn't focus on them (note - not denying their existence) wouldn't work. Particularly in a part of the universe they've NEVER BEEN TO. In that case, so what if the ship is Ancient, the rest of the universe sure isn't.


Any actually, were the Vulcans even IN Deep Space 9?! Apart from maybe one episode?


Considering the true spirit of Stargate started as mythology, gods, advanced aliens, military teams, exploring the unknown, it's VERY possible to have Stargate without the Ancients.

[Acolyte Of Bli'l'ab]

If SG1 S1-6 can get by with mentioning the Ancients only in passing until "Frozen", then why do you think having a show that doesn't focus on them (note - not denying their existence) wouldn't work. Particularly in a part of the universe they've NEVER BEEN TO. In that case, so what if the ship is Ancient, the rest of the universe sure isn't.


Any actually, were the Vulcans even IN Deep Space 9?! Apart from maybe one episode?


Considering the true spirit of Stargate started as mythology, gods, advanced aliens, military teams, exploring the unknown, it's VERY possible to have Stargate without the Ancients.

well, if it means anything I completely agree with you on this subject. I'd rather see other old races, especially if its in the rest of the universe. Humanoids are so boring and overdone in televised sci-fi IMO. I always saw SG as more an exploration of tying ancient mythologies and civilizations, gods and archaeology into a sci-fi mythology, and theres way more to do than just Ancient stuff. I want to see some aeons old terminator style machine race, or some lovecraftian esque "gods", and the less symetry the better

[Flyboy]

well, if it means anything I completely agree with you on this subject. I'd rather see other old races, especially if its in the rest of the universe. Humanoids are so boring and overdone in televised sci-fi IMO. I always saw SG as more an exploration of tying ancient mythologies and civilizations, gods and archaeology into a sci-fi mythology, and theres way more to do than just Ancient stuff. I want to see some aeons old terminator style machine race, or some lovecraftian esque "gods", and the less symetry the better

The entire of a Lovecraftian SGU would be something that would appeal to be greatly. The sheer expanse of the universe, to stare into the void, I think that would be utterly awesome, because the sights that must be out there God knows how far away from Earth, further than Pegasus, it would be a fitting place to discover creatures from before the dawn of time.

[DetriusXii]

well, if it means anything I completely agree with you on this subject. I'd rather see other old races, especially if its in the rest of the universe. Humanoids are so boring and overdone in televised sci-fi IMO. I always saw SG as more an exploration of tying ancient mythologies and civilizations, gods and archaeology into a sci-fi mythology, and theres way more to do than just Ancient stuff. I want to see some aeons old terminator style machine race, or some lovecraftian esque "gods", and the less symetry the better

I miss the old Stargate aswell. There was something magical in the Stargates, knowing that they were created by the Ancients, but never knowing what the Ancients were. My imagine lead me to believe they were squidlike beings. My suspension of disbelief was still there until they started connecting everything to the Ancients.

By season 6, we learn that the Ancients are the ascended beings and that the Ancients are humans. Making the ancients human destroyed my suspension because now us Stargate viewers somehow had to reconcile evolution with a larger origin. it was never explained why the Ancients seeded primitive human forms rather than advanced Ancient forms. It was never explained how the great alliance happened and I believe the writers retconned it because of their shortsightedness. Not only that, but we learn that humans occupy several galaxies and several planes of existence. It was just too much to absorb and the mythology got shattered. And by later seasons, we get no hint of a non-Ancient alien species existing. The Replicators, Wraith, and humans all had Ancient origins. Likely the Serrakin, too, if their environment made it impossible for the human-forms to grow their. The universe became boring. Everything became all too human. And the writers were doing their best to sever the remaining connections to the three remaining power alien species: the Asgard, the Go'uld, and the Nox.

What's worse, they decided to make evil Ancients (tying into the fact that the Ancients were ascended). There was no way to have a plausible show when you're fighting the equivalent of the Q-continuum. One is left wondering why the Ori didn't attempt to expand outside their galaxy. After all, the ascended beings were unstoppable war machines (Chaya from Atlantis, Oma from SG-1) so there's no possible reason why the Ori limited their population when it could create more worship.

So yes, the Ancients screwed the show up and I'd be happy if they disappeared. And if the ascended plane disappeared. We don't have to see the Furlings or the Crystal skull aliens, but I do not want to see the Ancients again. They've damaged the writing of two shows. The writers need to learn from their mistakes and stop writing them into the plot.

[Acolyte Of Bli'l'ab]

I miss the old Stargate aswell. There was something magical in the Stargates, knowing that they were created by the Ancients, but never knowing what the Ancients were. My imagine lead me to believe they were squidlike beings. My suspension of disbelief was still there until they started connecting everything to the Ancients.

By season 6, we learn that the Ancients are the ascended beings and that the Ancients are humans. Making the ancients human destroyed my suspension because now us Stargate viewers somehow had to reconcile evolution with a larger origin. it was never explained why the Ancients seeded primitive human forms rather than advanced Ancient forms. It was never explained how the great alliance happened and I believe the writers retconned it because of their shortsightedness. Not only that, but we learn that humans occupy several galaxies and several planes of existence. It was just too much to absorb and the mythology got shattered. And by later seasons, we get no hint of a non-Ancient alien species existing. The Replicators, Wraith, and humans all had Ancient origins. Likely the Serrakin, too, if their environment made it impossible for the human-forms to grow their. The universe became boring. Everything became all too human. And the writers were doing their best to sever the remaining connections to the three remaining power alien species: the Asgard, the Go'uld, and the Nox.

What's worse, they decided to make evil Ancients (tying into the fact that the Ancients were ascended). There was no way to have a plausible show when you're fighting the equivalent of the Q-continuum. One is left wondering why the Ori didn't attempt to expand outside their galaxy. After all, the ascended beings were unstoppable war machines (Chaya from Atlantis, Oma from SG-1) so there's no possible reason why the Ori limited their population when it could create more worship.

So yes, the Ancients screwed the show up and I'd be happy if they disappeared. And if the ascended plane disappeared. We don't have to see the Furlings or the Crystal skull aliens, but I do not want to see the Ancients again. They've damaged the writing of two shows. The writers need to learn from their mistakes and stop writing them into the plot.

Yeah, I was dissapointed when the Ancients turned out to be boring ol humans too. I think they should of left them a mystery like the Furlings. I find it more interesting that way, it leaves something up to the imagination and wonder of the individual - which is an important element of what I enjoy about Sci-fi. I wish they kept the origins of the Replicators hidden as well.

They need to bring back some solid mystery to the franchise IMO. SGU has the potential to do this, but im cautious about that. I dont think I could believe that the whole universe is FULL of medieval human settlements within forests in canada either. A galaxy or two, sure..but I think if your exploring outside that, it would be more interesting to see older more nightmarish alien races we can barely even comprehend.

Some may argue, that doing such aliens would kill the budget, but if the new show has a larger budget then it should surely be able to compensate things like this. I'd also mention babylon5 did really well with the shadows and vorlons as another example, id be glad to see some non-humanoid old races in that style too. Hell, even Star Trek had some pretty good non-humanoid aliens ; The crystaline entity and that Voyager episode with the Microscopic virus that uses its hosts to grow into the Macro world into huge three-tentacled flying things.

[Acolyte Of Bli'l'ab]

The entire of a Lovecraftian SGU would be something that would appeal to be greatly. The sheer expanse of the universe, to stare into the void, I think that would be utterly awesome, because the sights that must be out there God knows how far away from Earth, further than Pegasus, it would be a fitting place to discover creatures from before the dawn of time.

I feel lovecraftian influences would truly freshen up Stargate while staying true to what its meant to be at the same time.

You can easily imagine them finding some aeons old cyclopean city and reawakening some otherworldly nightmarish race, Call of cthulhu/mountains of madness style.

[Flyboy]

I feel lovecraftian influences would truly freshen up Stargate while staying true to what its meant to be at the same time.

You can easily imagine them finding some aeons old cyclopean city and reawakening some otherworldly nightmarish race, Call of cthulhu/mountains of madness style.

Definitely.

And I agree with your previous statement too. When all the mythology in the Gateverse could be traced back to hi-tech humans and not ancient races, and Gods and whatever, it lost its charm.

[Arga]

what would make me laugh is if they would find, during their journey, a non-ascended Ancient (in stasis, and they'd revive him) and it would turn out he is one particularly dumb & clumsy ancient, who was forgotten by the others, or accidentally put himself in cryo-sleep... And would be a comic relief & also source of some knowledge, but he wouldn't be really smarter. (yes, why do all ancients must be smart?)..

[Dragon_Heart]

yeah as many have said, there would be no show without the ancients. they created us, they are like our parents

taking the ancients out of the story would be, well epic failure. and i agree with some, from what ive read so far, there are alot of close-minded people on these forums, of course who am i too judge....

-DH

[ciannwn]

from what ive read so far, there are alot of close-minded people on these forums, of course who am i too judge....

I'm not closed minded about Ancients. I'm just fed up with the way they've been presented.

1: The ascended ones have access to all the knowledge of the universe but they've never learned wisdom. They still divide into factions who can't agree about how much interference counts as non interference.

2: Even though they had millions of years worth of scientific knowledge behind them the Ancients on Atlantis still invented useless technology with dangerous side effects. Zelenka was able to figure out why the super weapon on Doranda couldn't work as intended. You'd think the Lanteans would have known enough about Stargate Universe physics to not even attempt it.

My guess is that the Ancients ended up as they did because of plot devices.

1: Ascended Ancients have godlike powers. They can't be allowed to use them to sort the problems out, though, because it would leave the heroes with nothing to do.

2: If the ascended Ancients never interfered they wouldn't be able to appear in any story. This is where the 'thin line' comes in. An ascended Ancient can, therefore, give as much help as is neccessary for a particular plot before being stopped by the others.

2: Unascended Ancients in Pegasus would know how to find and run everything in the city. They'd also know how to make things like drones and ZPMs. They couldn't be allowed to live for more than one episode.

SGU now requires Ancients to have the attention span of gnats. They sent out a Stargate seeding ship but abandoned their plans to follow it and explore these new galaxies because they decided to go for ascension instead. The seeding ship is yet another example of litter left behind when they ascended so our heroes can find it.

[Flyboy]

yeah as many have said, there would be no show without the ancients. they created us, they are like our parents

taking the ancients out of the story would be, well epic failure. and i agree with some, from what ive read so far, there are alot of close-minded people on these forums, of course who am i too judge....

-DH

Yes... we are closed minded for not liking a plot element and for believing that it's possible to open up story telling beyond it instead of focusing on something that's been centre stage for 9 years. Exactly.

[mike3]

So yes, the Ancients screwed the show up and I'd be happy if they disappeared. And if the ascended plane disappeared. We don't have to see the Furlings or the Crystal skull aliens, but I do not want to see the Ancients again. They've damaged the writing of two shows. The writers need to learn from their mistakes and stop writing them into the plot.

You mean just retcon all that stuff right out of there? Or reboot the whole damn thing with a new show that starts fresh off from square one right after the conclusion of the original Stargate film? Mmh. I'm not so sure either of those would be cool or not.

Although I might agree with some of your points. It was a bit saddening to see the Ancients revealed as such a bore (just "humans" with more technology almost). It would have been cool to keep it more mysterious and have them as some great cosmic beings of some sort that are extremely old (even older than they have in the show) and incomprehensible and the Stargate system built for unknown purposes that the teams would still be trying to figure out to this day, perhaps even too cosmic to imagine.