So... WHICH bit of SGU is making YOU inclined to hate it?

[Acolyte Of Bli'l'ab]

I liked Atlantis better when they were still cut off from Earth and on their own. I thought it gave the show an air of urgency and danger: if anything went wrong, they were basically screwed. One way ticket, but you know they had to come and all that rot. As soon as they started gating back to Earth, well, it made it a heck of a lot easier to cram in the crossovers, didn't it? I predict the same thing will happen with SGU: there'll be some fire situation in the season finale and the end result will be, ta-dah! Contact with Earth. Roll out the red carpet for a steady stream of guest stars from SG-1 and Atlantis. Which will be sad and will mark the end of whatever shred of originality managed to cling to SGU.

Oh, and if the writers are so tired that they just keep churning out the same stories over and over? Maybe that's a hint that they should leave.

I basicly agree with all of this..

Maybe I should send my own Stargate series idea to the production people ? probably wont do any good though..

[ShadowMaat]

They don't look at unsolicited material. Some mail flunky just chucks it into the wastebin.

[leiasky]

I'll be encouraged if they bring in a few new writers to give the franchise a fresh perspective.

[Cautious Explorer]

Which is just sad. He even admits he doesn't like SG-1. And he says first season of Atlantis was good. I actually DIDN'T like the first season, and watching Beckett and Weir go WAS AMAZING writing. I mean, really, did you say in the first two season "Oh yea, I imagine that Weir will actually die"? Did it actually come up? Look at SG-1, did any of the General's die? THAT was new. And that shows the writers will take out main characters...which usually add's suspence to the show, because when something bad happens to a character you'll actually wonder if they can live or not. Which generally, is a GOOD thing. Sure, we'll all miss said character, but it made us mad...sad...cry...and made us sit at the edge of our seats when Atlantis was attacked and Weir was blown back. Didn't? Come on, now, didn't!?!

She doesn't like SG-1. So what? You didn't like the first season of SGA? I loved it. Different taste, that's all.

I thought killing Beckett and Weir was a terrible idea. Especially when TPTB did it with no real plan other than to shock people. They disrupted the whole cast chemistry before they even had an idea of who would be brought in as replacements (or so they've claimed). So they scrambled around and picked an actress they liked working with and an old favorite from another show without any regard to creating new and interesting characters that would actually fit well within the framework of Atlantis. (Come on, an underaged head doctor? A soldier/physicist who duplicated the talents of two lead characters and was unavailable for half of the season? What kind of planning is that?)

Character death is always upsetting if it happens to one of your favorites or if it unbalances the cast, but it's a lot easier to take if there's a clear and well thought out reason for bringing in someone else. That didn't happen in SGA. There was very little thought, if any, given to integrating new characters.

OK, why do you say it's "compromised by a desire to hang onto the past"?

Presumably TPTB wanted to create something new and different in SGA. They managed to do that for one season. Then they sacrficed the energy and story opportunities that being cut off and struggling to survive provided. Why? For easy access to the SGC and crossover opportunities? Suddenly we're back to the same old stuff: IOA interference, the Trust, Earth-based episodes, replicators. If you're going to make a new show, why cut short it's possibilities just to link it back to it's predecessor?

Because some of the episodes are similar to SG-1? These giys have written 300+ episodes, and you expect them to make brand spanking new ones every time? Honestly, they are up against a lot since there is no original story anymore. Why I say that? Because honestly, you can make any story like any other story in the past...you can. Think the Stargate is original? Not really, it's similar to Babylon 5 with their "jump gate". It's a gate that takes you to another destination. Thats basically what it is. Thats not close enough for ya? In Wing Commender, they use "Jump Drive" which is similar, if I understand, to using a wormhole. That sounds a whole lot like Stargate to me. Sure, no gate, but it does use a wormhole.

Since I didn't watch much of SG-1 at all, I wouldn't know most of the time if an SG-1 plot was being recycled, unless the characters stop to point it out as Carter did in Doppleganger. But even recycling certain elements from SG-1 stories tends to limit creativity IMO. The Goa'uld in Caldwell, the replicators, the Trust.....Why are they even necessary? It's a brand new galaxy, so run with it. Break out brand new villains, brand new situations, and please drop the Earth politics.

I think SadowMaat put it perfectly.

The point I'm trying to make is, there is no originality. So what writers do (since I am a writer, I've both known this and learned this at college) is they take an idea they know of (wormhole) and make it their own (well, a stargate on a planet, that humans can be connected to any planet. And well...lets have phone numbers for each planet. Ah ha! We got something new...) and thats what the SG-1/SGA creators did. Now weather or not they did it successfully everytime throughout the Stargate Franchise is a question to be debated, however to actually say, "They've already proven they aren't equipped to create something new and stick with it." Is just wrong.

What I meant was, they tried to create something new in SGA, it worked for a while and then they dropped it and turned back to their old favorite tricks from SG-1. Why would I expect anything different with SGU?

SGA is something new yet more of the same, I can agree to an extent. Something new because it's in a new galaxy, a new enemy, and even though it focuses on one team we do have Lourne's team which we see a lot, and the crew at SGA isn't really military, which effects the way things are run. And there are tons of new story concepts they created, can't think of many now...but for instance, the Shrine was a pretty good episode. The Deadlous Varitions was pretty cool and a new idea, and gave a new look at the PG because before we didn't know there was other life forms...but there could be, now.

TPTB copied themselves with The Shrine. It was a retelling of Tao of Rodney. Daedalous Variations was the team stuck on a ship -- would have been nice to actually get a look at some of the different realities, don't you think? Instead it was an alien boarding the Daedalous while Rodney worked to repair the drive. The ideas are there sometimes, and sometimes not, but TPTB don't seem to be carrying through on them anymore.

I am heartily sick of those who say, "Awww, those poor PTB! Look how many eps they've written! Can you honestly expect ALL of 'em to be original?" Frankly, yes, I do expect some originality. IT'S THEIR JOB to write new material instead of resting on their own laurels. And while there may be "nothing new under the sun" it doesn't mean that TPTB have to copy their own material. Ye gods! There are thousands of sources to draw from and hundreds of different ways to approach the "same old thing" that can make it SEEM new and interesting. But no. Instead there's this nagging sense of deja vu and you find yourself wondering (well, I find myself wondering) "haven't I seen this ep before?"

I liked Atlantis better when they were still cut off from Earth and on their own. I thought it gave the show an air of urgency and danger: if anything went wrong, they were basically screwed. One way ticket, but you know they had to come and all that rot. As soon as they started gating back to Earth, well, it made it a heck of a lot easier to cram in the crossovers, didn't it? I predict the same thing will happen with SGU: there'll be some fire situation in the season finale and the end result will be, ta-dah! Contact with Earth. Roll out the red carpet for a steady stream of guest stars from SG-1 and Atlantis. Which will be sad and will mark the end of whatever shred of originality managed to cling to SGU.

Oh, and if the writers are so tired that they just keep churning out the same stories over and over? Maybe that's a hint that they should leave.

ITA. It'll be one year, if that, before Carter, Teal'c, or maybe a replicator or two will find their way to SGU.

If they're so convinced people are only watching for SG-1 and the old familiar aspects of Earth and the SGC, then why bother with a new set up at all?

[Blistna]

I am heartily sick of those who say, "Awww, those poor PTB! Look how many eps they've written! Can you honestly expect ALL of 'em to be original?" Frankly, yes, I do expect some originality. IT'S THEIR JOB to write new material instead of resting on their own laurels. And while there may be "nothing new under the sun" it doesn't mean that TPTB have to copy their own material. Ye gods! There are thousands of sources to draw from and hundreds of different ways to approach the "same old thing" that can make it SEEM new and interesting. But no. Instead there's this nagging sense of deja vu and you find yourself wondering (well, I find myself wondering) "haven't I seen this ep before?"

I liked Atlantis better when they were still cut off from Earth and on their own. I thought it gave the show an air of urgency and danger: if anything went wrong, they were basically screwed. One way ticket, but you know they had to come and all that rot. As soon as they started gating back to Earth, well, it made it a heck of a lot easier to cram in the crossovers, didn't it? I predict the same thing will happen with SGU: there'll be some fire situation in the season finale and the end result will be, ta-dah! Contact with Earth. Roll out the red carpet for a steady stream of guest stars from SG-1 and Atlantis. Which will be sad and will mark the end of whatever shred of originality managed to cling to SGU.

Oh, and if the writers are so tired that they just keep churning out the same stories over and over? Maybe that's a hint that they should leave.

Well, write and see how easy it is. And honestly, originality doesn't exist, only in, using your own words, "...hundreds of different ways to approach the "same old thing" that can make it SEEM new and interesting."

Thats the idea. And i said in my arguement, here:

Now weather or not they did it successfully everytime throughout the Stargate Franchise is a question to be debated, however to actually say, "They've already proven they aren't equipped to create something new and stick with it." Is just wrong.

So, debate me on whether or not they made some original story lines. I believe they have, in fact, around 100 episodes of Atlantis, seeing about 70-80 of them, think that most of them were. I never really remember saying, "Wow...haven't I seen this before?" Not until I went here and you guys pointed some episodes out. But even then, it was still enjoyable.

And you know what? Maybe they should have stayed away from Earth longer, or forever. But it is human nature to be found, and it's very possible the characters themselves found a way out. What I mean by that? Watch Stanger Than Fiction and find out what I mean (best way to describe that the writer doesn't always make the calls in a story). So...if they didn't do whats "original" in your mind, then thats your opinion. But that portion of my arguement was about whgat originality is, and how to make something old new again. And, as I quoted myself, I said point blank that if they were successful or not is up to debate, however that doesn't mean they are capable of doing something new and fresh again. That doesn't mean they suck at writing. That doesn't mean they need to be replaced, because this is something all writers deal with, not just ones who write 300+ episodes. Read one author all the way through his books, all of them, and you'll find similarties all the time. I'll guarantee it.

I basicly agree with all of this..

Maybe I should send my own Stargate series idea to the production people ? probably wont do any good though..

it would be better to send in a synopses of your story to a producer of SG and have him read over it. But your right, probably wouldn't get heard. However, if you are looking on how to get your stuff looked at, go to this forum. Its a good place to get answers and help in writing. It's where I learned, however they tend to be harsh at times. A lot of these people are professonials, so if your stuff is crap, they will tell ya.

I'll be encouraged if they bring in a few new writers to give the franchise a fresh perspective.

I wouldn't mind. :-) Always up for newbies...oh pick me! oh pick me!

[Blistna]

She doesn't like SG-1. So what? You didn't like the first season of SGA? I loved it. Different taste, that's all.

I thought killing Beckett and Weir was a terrible idea. Especially when TPTB did it with no real plan other than to shock people. They disrupted the whole cast chemistry before they even had an idea of who would be brought in as replacements (or so they've claimed). So they scrambled around and picked an actress they liked working with and an old favorite from another show without any regard to creating new and interesting characters that would actually fit well within the framework of Atlantis. (Come on, an underaged head doctor? A soldier/physicist who duplicated the talents of two lead characters and was unavailable for half of the season? What kind of planning is that?)

Character death is always upsetting if it happens to one of your favorites or if it unbalances the cast, but it's a lot easier to take if there's a clear and well thought out reason for bringing in someone else. That didn't happen in SGA. There was very little thought, if any, given to integrating new characters.


Presumably TPTB wanted to create something new and different in SGA. They managed to do that for one season. Then they sacrficed the energy and story opportunities that being cut off and struggling to survive provided. Why? For easy access to the SGC and crossover opportunities? Suddenly we're back to the same old stuff: IOA interference, the Trust, Earth-based episodes, replicators. If you're going to make a new show, why cut short it's possibilities just to link it back to it's predecessor?

Since I didn't watch much of SG-1 at all, I wouldn't know most of the time if an SG-1 plot was being recycled, unless the characters stop to point it out as Carter did in Doppleganger. But even recycling certain elements from SG-1 stories tends to limit creativity IMO. The Goa'uld in Caldwell, the replicators, the Trust.....Why are they even necessary? It's a brand new galaxy, so run with it. Break out brand new villains, brand new situations, and please drop the Earth politics.

I think SadowMaat put it perfectly.


What I meant was, they tried to create something new in SGA, it worked for a while and then they dropped it and turned back to their old favorite tricks from SG-1. Why would I expect anything different with SGU?


TPTB copied themselves with The Shrine. It was a retelling of Tao of Rodney. Daedalous Variations was the team stuck on a ship -- would have been nice to actually get a look at some of the different realities, don't you think? Instead it was an alien boarding the Daedalous while Rodney worked to repair the drive. The ideas are there sometimes, and sometimes not, but TPTB don't seem to be carrying through on them anymore.




ITA. It'll be one year, if that, before Carter, Teal'c, or maybe a replicator or two will find their way to SGU.

If they're so convinced people are only watching for SG-1 and the old familiar aspects of Earth and the SGC, then why bother with a new set up at all?

First off, I was actually angery yesturday, and when I read your post, maybe have tipped over a bit. Sorry if I offended you. :-) And I didn't know you were a girl, sorry.

Second off...here we go again.

She doesn't like SG-1. So what? You didn't like the first season of SGA? I loved it. Different taste, that's all.

Well, a lot of my post was about trying to show you that, at least to me, Atlantis was suppose to be a spin-off of a show. Generally, I don't watch a spin-off of a show I don't like, escpecially if the same writers are at the helm. Like Battlestar Galatica. I hated that show. Hated the mini-series. Couldn't even watch it, but there are tons of people who did connect with it. So of course I wouldn't watch "BSG: Razor" or anything affiliated with it. I liked Heroes and Lost, no time to watch them, though. And if there was a spin-off, yea, I'll watch it. See what I'm getting at? If you don't like Story A, don't expect to like Story B, because at some point the things you didn't like in the old series will drift into it. Just will.

I thought killing Beckett and Weir was a terrible idea. Especially when TPTB did it with no real plan other than to shock people. They disrupted the whole cast chemistry before they even had an idea of who would be brought in as replacements (or so they've claimed). So they scrambled around and picked an actress they liked working with and an old favorite from another show without any regard to creating new and interesting characters that would actually fit well within the framework of Atlantis. (Come on, an underaged head doctor? A soldier/physicist who duplicated the talents of two lead characters and was unavailable for half of the season? What kind of planning is that?)

I actually liked it. If you didn't, sorry. However, I never actually like Samantha in Atlantis, Woolsey is actually better (funny, because I never liked the idea of him being the leader...but I do!)...and Season Four is my fav. season yet! So...yea, like you said, different taste.

Presumably TPTB wanted to create something new and different in SGA. They managed to do that for one season. Then they sacrficed the energy and story opportunities that being cut off and struggling to survive provided. Why? For easy access to the SGC and crossover opportunities? Suddenly we're back to the same old stuff: IOA interference, the Trust, Earth-based episodes, replicators. If you're going to make a new show, why cut short it's possibilities just to link it back to it's predecessor?

Well, didn't know that . I still wouldn't assume SGU is going to ever talk to Earth again...honestly, that's going to be hard to do...and to Explain. Then again, its going to be hard to explain why they can't...I imagine the show actually becoming darker then SG-1 and SGA and team members dying. But thst just me...

What I meant was, they tried to create something new in SGA, it worked for a while and then they dropped it and turned back to their old favorite tricks from SG-1. Why would I expect anything different with SGU?

Well, honestly, I never understood why you wanted to watch Atlantis in the first place if you never liked SG-1. So couldn't tell you why you should expect something different in SGU.

TPTB copied themselves with The Shrine. It was a retelling of Tao of Rodney. Daedalous Variations was the team stuck on a ship -- would have been nice to actually get a look at some of the different realities, don't you think? Instead it was an alien boarding the Daedalous while Rodney worked to repair the drive. The ideas are there sometimes, and sometimes not, but TPTB don't seem to be carrying through on them anymore.

If thats the one where he gets really smart, thats actually not coping the idea, but doing the opposent. I kinda liked the Shirne...some good character building and some funny shots. And it should a new side of Ronan and Rodney...it was really good. So i wouldn't say that, but then again...if you just see something happens to Rodney's brain and then it gets healed at the end...then yea, its the same. It's also the same as House when they deal with the brain, isn't? Ok, that was sarcasm, but you see what I'm getting at? No originailty anymore. Any thing can be broken down and said to be coping something else. Anything.

[leiasky]

I wouldn't mind. :-) Always up for newbies...oh pick me! oh pick me!

As much as I'd love writing for a series I, well, love, I'm more adept at writing features.

I've got a lot of respect for writers who can churn out 20+ television scripts per year. It's taken me 8 months to finish two feature length ones.

It's not easy to be a writer, and to collaberate, but its also good to balance what you as a writer want to do, and what the fans of your very successful show want to see.

[Cautious Explorer]

First off, I was actually angery yesturday, and when I read your post, maybe have tipped over a bit. Sorry if I offended you. :-) And I didn't know you were a girl, sorry.

That's okay. You can't tell from my name. It's just weird to be referred to as "he".

Well, a lot of my post was about trying to show you that, at least to me, Atlantis was suppose to be a spin-off of a show. Generally, I don't watch a spin-off of a show I don't like, escpecially if the same writers are at the helm. Like Battlestar Galatica. I hated that show. Hated the mini-series. Couldn't even watch it, but there are tons of people who did connect with it. So of course I wouldn't watch "BSG: Razor" or anything affiliated with it. I liked Heroes and Lost, no time to watch them, though. And if there was a spin-off, yea, I'll watch it. See what I'm getting at? If you don't like Story A, don't expect to like Story B, because at some point the things you didn't like in the old series will drift into it. Just will.

I came across SGA on its own, liked it, and stuck with it. To me it had little to do with Stargate except for the gate itself. I probably never would have given it a try at all if I hadn't stumbled across it. I watched Stargate now and then, thought it was alright, but wouldn't go out of my way to catch an episode. I looked at it as a show in its own right and thought TPTB would do that too. I've never watched another spin off that clung so tightly to the mother show before.

I actually liked it. If you didn't, sorry. However, I never actually like Samantha in Atlantis, Woolsey is actually better (funny, because I never liked the idea of him being the leader...but I do!)...and Season Four is my fav. season yet! So...yea, like you said, different taste.

I probably would have been fine with it if there had been more effort made to make the new characters interesting in their own right. Make it feel as if there's a real purpose for the switch. It felt more like TPTB created vacancies then set out to find a couple of actresses they liked on a personal level, threw them in and called it a day. Other than a few vague character traits -- experienced, geek, scientist Col. or inexperienced, geek, Dr. (both of whom Rodney McKay is attracted to) -- there's not much to them.

Well, didn't know that . I still wouldn't assume SGU is going to ever talk to Earth again...honestly, that's going to be hard to do...and to Explain. Then again, its going to be hard to explain why they can't...I imagine the show actually becoming darker then SG-1 and SGA and team members dying. But thst just me...

I wouldn't have thought they'd make it a quick commute to Atlantis via the gate bridge. Just wait until they want to give Walter a cameo, or feature Carter or McKay. I'd love to be proven wrong on that one, by the way.

Well, honestly, I never understood why you wanted to watch Atlantis in the first place if you never liked SG-1. So couldn't tell you why you should expect something different in SGU.

Now I know better. That's why I have no plans to watch SGU. I'm afraid it will just turn into another disappoiontment for me.

If thats the one where he gets really smart, thats actually not coping the idea, but doing the opposent. I kinda liked the Shirne...some good character building and some funny shots. And it should a new side of Ronan and Rodney...it was really good. So i wouldn't say that, but then again...if you just see something happens to Rodney's brain and then it gets healed at the end...then yea, its the same. It's also the same as House when they deal with the brain, isn't? Ok, that was sarcasm, but you see what I'm getting at? No originailty anymore. Any thing can be broken down and said to be coping something else. Anything.

They follow the same pattern: McKay is affected by something that alters his brain; he becomes a kinder, gentler person; his friends rally around him; he hovers near death; and is miraculously saved in the end; only to revert back to his old self, none the wiser.

I see your point about House. Maybe that's why I quit watching after the first season. It did get predictable.

Everyone has a limit of what's acceptable repetition and what's not I guess. If it felt like TPTB were still trying to take a unique SGA twist on familiar themes, I'd be fine with it. I feel like TPTB have lost interest and are just tossing out what's quick and easy. (Not that I have any idea what goes on behind the scenes -- that's just how it feels to me)

[ShadowMaat]

Well, write and see how easy it is.

I do write, as a matter of fact. I just don't feel the need to proclaim it whenever I make judgments about the writing of others. "I'm a writer myself, so I can say..." sounds incredibly arrogant to me.

And it isn't a case of writing being "easy." If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. The only way for writing to be "easy", in my opinion, is to steal ideas (or harvest your own previous work) and don't put much effort into making it different the second (or third... or fourth) time around.

So, debate me on whether or not they made some original story lines. I believe they have, in fact, around 100 episodes of Atlantis, seeing about 70-80 of them, think that most of them were. I never really remember saying, "Wow...haven't I seen this before?" Not until I went here and you guys pointed some episodes out. But even then, it was still enjoyable.

SOME original storylines? Sure. But I also think there have been more than a few recycled plots and IMO the very make-up of the Atlantis team (and its similarity in character types) makes the recycling that much easier.

So...if they didn't do whats "original" in your mind, then thats your opinion.

Right. And I'm pretty sure I said it was my opinion. If not, I certainly meant to imply it.

And, as I quoted myself, I said point blank that if they were successful or not is up to debate, however that doesn't mean they are capable of doing something new and fresh again. That doesn't mean they suck at writing. That doesn't mean they need to be replaced, because this is something all writers deal with, not just ones who write 300+ episodes.

This is ALL a matter of debate. As far as I know that has never been in question. And I'm as within my rights to say that I think the writers are unoriginal and need replacing as you are of saying that they're still fresh and can keep going strong. It's all OPINION. It has all been STATED as opinion. I certainly don't expect Brad Wright to go, "OMG! Shadow thinks I need to replace my writers! I better go find a new staff!" Although if he did, I pray to my unholy gods that he tells Joe Mallozzi exactly who is responsible for his being fired.

Read one author all the way through his books, all of them, and you'll find similarties all the time. I'll guarantee it.

I've read many a complete series of books and while yes, there are similarities, I have rarely felt that an author was rewriting an earlier book. If I get to that point, I usually stop reading the series. And as I think I said before, it isn't a case of re-using material that I have a problem with as much as it's a case of re-using it without putting a fresh enough spin on it. IN MY OPINION the writers haven't been doing a good enough job of making old ideas seem fresh and different.

it would be better to send in a synopses of your story to a producer of SG and have him read over it. But your right, probably wouldn't get heard.

Umm... no, it pretty emphatically will NOT get looked at unless it's submitted through the proper channels (read: an agent) and then only if TPTB are looking for new material. Otherwise they are legally obligated NOT to look at random submissions from Joe Fan lest they inadvertently pick up an idea or two that shows up on TV and opens them to litigation issues. Even if the similarities are coincidental, if it's revealed that Producer X read Joe Fan's story idea Joe could try and sue the pants off them for "stealing" his material.

Unsolicted material winds up in a slush pile. And the slush pile could very likely end up in the recycle bin, materials unopened and/or unread.

[Pitry]

Which bit make sme inclined the most to dislike it?

The constant repeat of the word "edgy" whenever it is being referred to by people. The word is the key of starting my "distrust" mode.

[McgillionFan]

I'm really looking forword to it.

But if there's something that i'm sort of worried about it is the young audience part. How young are they thinking of or are they going to have a younger team ?

Not to sure if i'd like a younger team.

Other than that i'm looking forword to it.

The ship is going to be interesting to.

[Skydiver]

'edgy' kinda makes me pause too cause these guys don't do edgy. they do comfortable and predictable. they fall into ruts and like it there so they stay. I can't see them taking the chances like other shows do, like BSG and others.

they have their comfort zone and their formula and they stick with it.

[Pitry]

'edgy' kinda makes me pause too cause these guys don't do edgy. they do comfortable and predictable. they fall into ruts and like it there so they stay. I can't see them taking the chances like other shows do, like BSG and others.

they have their comfort zone and their formula and they stick with it.

TBH, it's not necessarily whether or not TPTB can write "edgy", as much as it's being usually a code-word for a lot of things I don't like about television. BSg is a good example - I don't enjoy it, no matter how much I tried watching it. A lot of the things I find not to my liking about it are what others refer to as "its edginess". And I mean everything from the target audience, through the story-telling methods to the whole pseudo-artistic look (lighting, shaky camera, camera angles etc).

I don't think they should necessarily stick to their comfort zone - I don't see any reason in having 2 exactly identical spin offs, TBH,a dn I think one of the problems with Atlantis is that it tried to be too much SG1 instead of finding its own identity, unlike, say, Doctor Who vs. Torchwood. When Torchwood was created, RTD didn't say, "I want everyone who watches DW to watch Torchwood", the way Stargate TPTB do - it was intentionally aimed at a different audience.
I think that's worth considering, at least.
The problem I find is following what's currently in fashion, but won't necessarily lead to better stories.

[Blistna]

I do write, as a matter of fact. I just don't feel the need to proclaim it whenever I make judgments about the writing of others. "I'm a writer myself, so I can say..." sounds incredibly arrogant to me.

Interesting. Your a writer. ;-) I like that. But honestly, I am an arrogant person to an extent, especially when it comes to writing. I'm not the best, especially around published authors, but when it comes down to it, I'm a lot better then other writers I know who are around my age. Of course, from the good ones I do know around my age, I still have a lot of learning to do. ;-) Especially when it comes to writing scripts.

And it isn't a case of writing being "easy." If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. The only way for writing to be "easy", in my opinion, is to steal ideas (or harvest your own previous work) and don't put much effort into making it different the second (or third... or fourth) time around.

Thats my point, though. I'll give one example. When I was a child I came up with a story called "White Knight". I had no idea at the time that it was like a story called "The Punisher". In fact, it's basically the Punisher with a knight and midevil and lord of the rings backdrop to it. Yep, that pretty much nails it. However, I didn't steal the idea. I didn't know it was there.

However, now that I realize that, I also realize that it's different in so many ways. In not only the environment, but the feel and the characters. The whole trilogy separates it from the others, as well. It's just different. Sure, you can walk away saying, "Haven't I seen this before" But you can also walk away saying "Wow, this was a new look at an old storyline". You can walk away from the story and be completely overwhelmed with how original it was, or how awesome it was...or just whatever.

Point is, just because there are recycle plots doesn't mean it wasn't original. lets take The Shrine and the Tao of Rodney. Tao of Rodent and The Shrine (ToR and TS) are similar in so many ways. Something is wrong with Rodney, for one. He apparently becomes nicer in both of them. And then he gets healed. Well, thats the basic outline of a lot of stories. Something is wrong with someone, they get kinder because they realize they are dying and they are a jerk, and the said person just got healed! Wow...thats in House, thats in Stargate, thats in a book called Obsessed by Ted Dekker (to an extent). Wow...all so boring, lets just stop watching/reading entertainment? No! Thats the thing...I can read a book called House by Ted Dekker and believe it to be a completely different horror story, even though others think it's complete crap. I can go away from The Matrix Revolutions and believe it's the best when someone else thinks it's no where near the original. We all perceive things different. We all notice different things. I believe The Shrine is a very different and unique episode then the ToR, however Cautious Explorer doesn't. Like I said before, debate me whether or not it's original (and not original as in its never been done before, thats really impossible, AIM or email or PM me if you want a more described opinion on why there is no original originality anymore, but I'm not going into that here) but please please don't call the writers incapable of doing something original. Don't use these "opinionated facts", pointing to these episodes and character profiles (which actually, thats a point in Stargate...they don't get away from that classic team profile. But when you look in the real world, NASA does a lot to make sure that every rocket mission into space they have a certain profile of personalities on every mission; call me stupid, but people would actually be screaming "Oh! Stargate isn't realistic...the army would have certain profiles and personalities for every team that goes through the Stargate" if they didn't have that. And to be frank, the first Atlantis team was different; sure they had a leader with a sense of humor, a smart person and and alien, but they didn't have a Daniel. They had a Ford. (which I hated Ford). Then they scrapped him, why, who knows? And added another alien. Which they aren't alien like Teal'c was, just not from Earth. But hey, they are in another galaxy and they are bound to make friends, some of those friends wished to join the team. Ronan is a lot like Teal'c, but different in a lot of different ways. Telya is no Teal'c; she's a wise person, a leader. So there you go...it's not exactly the same...and there are only TWO stargate shows...if they follow this path in a third series, then you have a point) saying it's not original and the writer can't write original material. Thats just a bunch of lies and you know it.

SOME original storylines? Sure. But I also think there have been more than a few recycled plots and IMO the very make-up of the Atlantis team (and its similarity in character types) makes the recycling that much easier.

:/ Look above.

Right. And I'm pretty sure I said it was my opinion. If not, I certainly meant to imply it.

My whole point is original is a matter of opinion! Another point is my opinion of someone doesn't make them a BAD WRITER and incapable of writing ORIGINAL material, although I myself may never like what said writer does, I don't have to say they are a BAD WRITER. Jeez.

This is ALL a matter of debate. As far as I know that has never been in question. And I'm as within my rights to say that I think the writers are unoriginal and need replacing as you are of saying that they're still fresh and can keep going strong. It's all OPINION. It has all been STATED as opinion. I certainly don't expect Brad Wright to go, "OMG! Shadow thinks I need to replace my writers! I better go find a new staff!" Although if he did, I pray to my unholy gods that he tells Joe Mallozzi exactly who is responsible for his being fired.

My only beef as I have stated before is that you can't call them incapable of writing original episodes by pointing to a few episodes, which at least here, only one person has done. Or two. But I'm not really counting myself here. Because in my mind, there is no bad writer. There is only a writer who isn't getting better. There is no such thing as a good writer, just one who happens to be both successful and liked among the literary crowd. Every writer can improve. Brad Wright can improve. The Atlantis team of writer can and are improving. Can you honestly say that Season Four wasn't an amazing season? I mean it won the People's Choice Award for god's sake...and I know a lot of people who DO like that season, so if you don't then your the minority. See? There is no bad writer and every writer is capable of improving. You can't deny that fact. So calling them "incapable of writing original material" is just a bunch of hocus pocus. And you know it! You said it yourself...your a writer. So then UNDERSTAND that much.

I've read many a complete series of books and while yes, there are similarities, I have rarely felt that an author was rewriting an earlier book. If I get to that point, I usually stop reading the series. And as I think I said before, it isn't a case of re-using material that I have a problem with as much as it's a case of re-using it without putting a fresh enough spin on it. IN MY OPINION the writers haven't been doing a good enough job of making old ideas seem fresh and different.

Well then why are you arguing with me? What you said there is completely your right. Whats not in your right (and in earnest, I know it wasn't you who said "the writers are incapable of writing original material" but thats what I have been arguing about THIS ENTIRE time) is to say the writers are incapable of writing original material. So it seems we both agree.

And I said it's in your right to say that!

Umm... no, it pretty emphatically will NOT get looked at unless it's submitted through the proper channels (read: an agent) and then only if TPTB are looking for new material. Otherwise they are legally obligated NOT to look at random submissions from Joe Fan lest they inadvertently pick up an idea or two that shows up on TV and opens them to litigation issues. Even if the similarities are coincidental, if it's revealed that Producer X read Joe Fan's story idea Joe could try and sue the pants off them for "stealing" his material.

Unsolicted material winds up in a slush pile. And the slush pile could very likely end up in the recycle bin, materials unopened and/or unread.

[/QUOTE]

Okay then, I was wrong. But from what I do know, you never send a script or a book to a publisher/agent. You send a synopsis. Is that wrong? Then they will ASK for your book/script. Then they will REJECT or ACCEPT it. And not every publisher is like that; last time I checked (which has been a while) TOR accepts unsolicited material. It actually said that on the web site. However, I haven't checked in like five years...so more then likely, its changed. And when it comes to lookinf for an agent, you can go http://www.breakingin.net/agent_faq.htm here and find out more. However as it says...its hard to find someone who will accept something from a writer who hasn't be sold or produced yet.

[leiasky]

It's who you know in this business that gets your spec scripts read. The best place to go for agent representation is the WGA web site and look at their list of agents. Why the WGA? Because that's what J. Michael Straczynski (creator of Babylon 5) told me when I asked him. What else did he tell me? As a NEW writer in the industry, an agent won't want to read a treatment, they'll want to see the whole, completed script.