Anyone else hope they play up the military angle?

[ciannwn]

Every security concern mentioned by Bates is valid, you can NOT trust a new race of people instantly. Particularly when you invite them into your city and you suddenly put one on your team. Yet such an opinion is unpopular. Even if you HAVE had SGC experience, his statements were valid.

I'm not saying that his concerns about the Athosians weren't valid. I'm guessing that the story was meant to reflect things like the British and Americans thinking that they could have 'enemy aliens' in their midst during WW2 and shipping the relevant possibilities to camps.

Where I think it fell a bit flat in SGA is that nobody, including Sheppard and Weir, wondered if any of the other team members could have been got at. After all, this wasn't WW2 - it was an expedition sent to a new galaxy after SG1 in particular had discovered that some aliens can do mind control. For me, the sensible course of action would have been to restrict the Athosians to a certain section of the city and confine the rest of the team as well so they couldn't access sensitive areas either until they'd been thoroughly checked out. Ford and Sheppard would have had to postpone their sight seeing tour in a Puddle Jumper until after the problem had been solved.

Sheppard annoyed me in this episode too because he just kept wandering around saying that Teyla had nothing to do with it. Er..how about looking for evidence to prove it?

Teyla's behaviour also comes across as a bit naive in hindsight. How could she be 100% certain that there wasn't a Wraith worshipper amongst the Athosians? Maybe she might have wondered a bit if Wraith worshippers had been invented back in Season One.

[Grinspoon]

Anyone else when they watch series like band of brothers or generation kill think, why can't they do a sci-fi show like this?

[unluckynumber11]

Anyone else when they watch series like band of brothers or generation kill think, why can't they do a sci-fi show like this?

because david howe is running the show

[g.o.d]

So Stargate Atlantis tried (note the "tried) to move away from the military angle of Stargate with their international expedition of scientists and so on so forth, with a civilian leader (well, four out of five aint bad), and hey, only one of the main characters is USAF.

I enjoyed it. Not quite as non-military as I expected. But a very good show.

However, I'm desperatly hoping that SGU goes back to Stargate's roots and really emphasises the military nature of the show, particularly as it seems this new concept is straying away from every other route.

Give them actual combats, instead of the old style SG1 uniforms, make sure they're camo, not black. If it must be set on an Ancient ship, let's have our characters act like professional soldiers, not like Sheppard, but like Dixon and Reynolds, and even early O'Neill.

Let's see someone like Caldwell in command, someone who's not afraid to lay down the rules and regulations. Oh and ensure everyone has a regulation hair cut (*cough* Shep *cough*).

I agree with you. If they need "cool" uniforms, they can have multicam + SGU really needs military command (like Dixon, Caldwell or Sumner)

[Flyboy]

I'm not saying that his concerns about the Athosians weren't valid. I'm guessing that the story was meant to reflect things like the British and Americans thinking that they could have 'enemy aliens' in their midst during WW2 and shipping the relevant possibilities to camps.

Where I think it fell a bit flat in SGA is that nobody, including Sheppard and Weir, wondered if any of the other team members could have been got at. After all, this wasn't WW2 - it was an expedition sent to a new galaxy after SG1 in particular had discovered that some aliens can do mind control. For me, the sensible course of action would have been to restrict the Athosians to a certain section of the city and confine the rest of the team as well so they couldn't access sensitive areas either until they'd been thoroughly checked out. Ford and Sheppard would have had to postpone their sight seeing tour in a Puddle Jumper until after the problem had been solved.

Sheppard annoyed me in this episode too because he just kept wandering around saying that Teyla had nothing to do with it. Er..how about looking for evidence to prove it?

Teyla's behaviour also comes across as a bit naive in hindsight. How could she be 100% certain that there wasn't a Wraith worshipper amongst the Athosians? Maybe she might have wondered a bit if Wraith worshippers had been invented back in Season One.

Exactly, Shep was far too trusting, which is something I would not expect from a military officer. A civvy maybe, but not an officer. Shep's blatant disregard of Bates, particularly when it turned out that Bates WAS right, that it WAS something to do with the Athosians leading the Wraith to them is down right out of order. Sumner would have listened to his Sergeant, as all good officers should. Sergeants know what they're talking about. But no, personal feelings and asumptions got in the way.

It's like the episode Critical Mass, where a lot of the investigation, INCLUDING Shepard came down to "could I picture one of my men working for the trust" or "nah, he wouldnt do that" etc etc. It was a GOA'ULD, doesn't matter how nice you are, if it takes you over, thats you an enemy hostile. We were all meant to think that Kavanagh was the goa'uld, but the attitude of Weir and Shep was out of order, not once did they think sensibly.

[ciannwn]

It's like the episode Critical Mass, where a lot of the investigation, INCLUDING Shepard came down to "could I picture one of my men working for the trust" or "nah, he wouldnt do that" etc etc. It was a GOA'ULD, doesn't matter how nice you are, if it takes you over, thats you an enemy hostile. We were all meant to think that Kavanagh was the goa'uld, but the attitude of Weir and Shep was out of order, not once did they think sensibly.

I've just found the relevant conversation about Cadman in the transcript.

SHEPPARD: She's one of the most trusted officers in my command -- not to mention the fact that she was stuck in your head for some time.

McKAY: Do you always have to keep bringing that up?

SHEPPARD: I bring it up because you of all people should know: she'd never do something like that.

McKAY: Well, maybe she was brainwashed, huh? The Goa'uld are very clever when it comes to things like manipulating ...

Listen to Rodney, dear. Just because Cadman hadn't been infested by a Goa'uld when she was in Rodney's head doesn't mean she that she can't be infested with one now.

[Flyboy]

I've just found the relevant conversation about Cadman in the transcript.

SHEPPARD: She's one of the most trusted officers in my command -- not to mention the fact that she was stuck in your head for some time.

McKAY: Do you always have to keep bringing that up?

SHEPPARD: I bring it up because you of all people should know: she'd never do something like that.

McKAY: Well, maybe she was brainwashed, huh? The Goa'uld are very clever when it comes to things like manipulating ...

Listen to Rodney, dear. Just because Cadman hadn't been infested by a Goa'uld when she was in Rodney's head doesn't mean she that she can't be infested with one now.

Exactly. I could have kicked him right then. He'd read the damn files, so he should know that anyone, up to and including Jack O'Neill and Samantha Carter has had a snake in their head at some point in time and it's possible for it to go undetected. Honestly, some military officer.

The next lot need to be less of a nump.

[ciannwn]

The next lot need to be less of a nump.

Sheppard was just a sad victim of the 'characters must act like idiots for the sake of the plot' syndrome. Unless there's a radical change to the way plots are constructed in SGU the new characters will be having bouts of stupidity too.

[HunGripen]

Yeah, an international military crew would be cool. About the uniforms they could wear 1.original uniforms (e.g. US military:ACU) or a new type uniform like in atlantis. I don't know if the UN could handle a misson like this, maybe NATO or a brand new military organization.

[Flyboy]

Yeah, an international military crew would be cool. About the uniforms they could wear 1.original uniforms (e.g. US military:ACU) or a new type uniform like in atlantis. I don't know if the UN could handle a misson like this, maybe NATO or a brand new military organization.

UN handling it? I don't see why they couldn't. Honestly, people are so quick to refer to the UN as one entity when it's actually a lot of organisations, the Security Council, when not hampered by Russia or China, is actually quite an effective organisation, as long as UN Peacekeepers have clear ROEs.

But NATO would be a good organisation except Russia and China are not members, and yet are key players in the Gateverse. As for uniforms, I seriously vote REAL world combats.

[GhostPoet]

So, I was just thinking about weapons and i'm thinking they must have to switch over to energy weapons...because they HAVE to run out of bullets eventually. So, I wonder if that means the Zats are coming back.

[Flyboy]

Unfortunatly, though we'll see, who knows maybe they'll be able to receive supplies through the gate, which would work story wise, as they wouldnt have to hunt for food and such.

As far as I'm concerned, the ONLY hope for SGU is a strong military presence with a powerful leader like Caldwell.

[PG15]

Looks like I'm gonna be the voice of dissent here. I feel so...endangered.

I'll be blunt. I like the Atlantis characters more than the SG1 characters. I really dislike "by-the-book" military people. Sam Carter, the most by-the-book character there is, is my least favorite SG1 character. O'Neill, IMHO, didn't hit his prime until about Season 2 or 3, when the humor started coming in full swing, and even now, when he's "wacky Jack", I still love the character. Daniel and Teal'c are great characters as well. I LOVE Sheppard's character, as well as McKay and Ronon. Teyla not so much, and I think it's because she's too...good, calm and nice. Woolsey's beyond awesome though. Don't know how that worked out.

Long story short, give me flawed humans instead of perfect soldiers. Make them do emotionally-driven, stupid, stubborn, even ethically-challenged things so I can better relate to them. I really don't care about regs and regulations; give me some interesting characters instead. You want military officers? I don't want the shiny-buttoned, perfect collar...line, buzz cut that you can set a watch to, or whatever; give me the renegade, the unique, special "officers" like Sheppard, someone who aren't cookie cutter soldier.

I'm as civilian as they come, so I have no interest watching a bunch of stiff-shirts reciting the...whatever it is that military people have to recite. That's boring to me, and I can't relate to them whatsoever.

[Flyboy]

Looks like I'm gonna be the voice of dissent here. I feel so...endangered.

I'll be blunt. I like the Atlantis characters more than the SG1 characters. I really dislike "by-the-book" military people. Sam Carter, the most by-the-book character there is, is my least favorite SG1 character. O'Neill, IMHO, didn't hit his prime until about Season 2 or 3, when the humor started coming in full swing, and even now, when he's "wacky Jack", I still love the character. Daniel and Teal'c are great characters as well. I LOVE Sheppard's character, as well as McKay and Ronon. Teyla not so much, and I think it's because she's too...good, calm and nice. Woolsey's beyond awesome though. Don't know how that worked out.

Long story short, give me flawed humans instead of perfect soldiers. Make them do emotionally-driven, stupid, stubborn, even ethically-challenged things so I can better relate to them. I really don't care about regs and regulations; give me some interesting characters instead. You want military officers? I don't want the shiny-buttoned, perfect collar...line, buzz cut that you can set a watch to, or whatever; give me the renegade, the unique, special "officers" like Sheppard, someone who aren't cookie cutter soldier.

I'm as civilian as they come, so I have no interest watching a bunch of stiff-shirts reciting the...whatever it is that military people have to recite. That's boring to me, and I can't relate to them whatsoever.

BURN THE UNBELIEVER!







I can see where you're coming from but, I also respectfully disagree. I think your point of view of what makes a by the book military officer is a little skewed. To be a good officer you don't have to be stiff and such, I would argue that up until the end of S6 (Full Circle), Jack was a very good non-stiff officer. Carter was just a military geek, you get them, NOBODY in the right mind walks into a briefing, says a one liner and then snaps out a "Captain Samantha Carter reporting SIR" with a salute. It's a cliched stereotype.

See the thing, is Officers and NCOs are human. They do make mistakes, and they do have fun. But it's when to draw the line. Take Sheppard. Shoulda had a haircut. Should have been more suspicious of EVERYONE in Critical Mass. His personality, I have no problem with. He's a pilot. Seriously, that's how pilots act. But they don't act stupidly. O'Neill just went insane if you ask me... but to begin with, he worked.

SG1 and SGA do have some prime examples of some good military personnel. Caldwell and Ellis. Both fantastic and accurate characters. Caldwell has a lot of personality, he's military, but also human, and you see his human side. Hammond and Landry both are perfect representations as well, particularly Hammond. A very human General. S1-6 O'Neill, jokey, banterish, but also serious when the time comes. Major Davis as well, although we don't see his lighter side that much unfortunatly.

Pilots when not flying sit in the crew room, making jokes over what ever is on tv, put the football on big screen projector for everyone to watch, and if there's no football on, they might put something they've downloaded on (I've seen Heroes being played before). I've seen some decide that they're going to "attack" another pilot in a playful fashion and then all hell breaks loose (in a nice way).

"Perfect soldier" does not mean starchy. It doesn't mean two dimensional "yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir!" It means they think about things properly and act properly. I tell you what.

And I've just thought of another example.

Colonel Dixon's team in Heroes as the most realistic team interaction of a bunch of soldiers I have ever seen. That is reality for you. That's the sort of team I want on the show. Failing that, watch the Stargate Movie Directors Cut, particularly the intreraction between Ferretti and the rest of the men. That's the sort of stuff.

There's complaining, *****ing, sulking, banter, jokes, and when the time comes seriousness.

[ciannwn]

I really dislike "by-the-book" military people. Sam Carter, the most by-the-book character there is, is my least favorite SG1 character.

I've never thought of Sam as being a stereotypical 'by the book' military type. I've always seen her as adaptable, competent, able to keep her head in a crisis and good in combat when she needs to fight.

O'Neill, IMHO, didn't hit his prime until about Season 2 or 3, when the humor started coming in full swing, and even now, when he's "wacky Jack", I still love the character.

I think O'Neill is the best human character they've ever had in both series. He's wonderfully eccentric, has a dry wit etc. etc. but he's a first class soldier who knows that a book written for military operations on Earth isn't always useful for dealing with the unknown on alien planets.

I also like Hammond and Landry. Both of them were aware that what the politicians wanted often tended to be unrealistic because they had no experience of conditions 'out there', They took the approach of "We've been ordered to do this by the book but if you can find a way around it I'll look the other way while you get on with it."

Daniel and Teal'c are great characters as well.

I like Daniel too. Teal'c, for me, is the best alien character in both series. He's a warrior who can also be a politician when required. He did his best to blend in with Earth culture because he accepted that if he was going to live on Earth he'd have to do things their way. He never stopped being a Jaffa, though, as 'Talion' pointed out. It looked like he'd snapped and gone on the rampage but the end conversation with Bra'tac revealed that what he did was an honourable course of action according to the Jaffa culture. (Bra'tac is another of my favourite characters. He's a warrior who has learned wisdom through age and experience.)

I LOVE Sheppard's character,

I can't stand Sheppard and would rather have a Mitchell type on Atlantis.

as well as McKay

I can accept McKay's behaviour and personality because he's a civilian. I'd have screamed if Sam had been like that because she's an Air Force officer as well as a scientist.

and Ronon.

Sorry, but I've always seen Ronon's main role on the show as being the 'the mean, moody and hot guy with a big gun'. I thought the best bits of 'Sateda' were the scenes revealing some of Ronon's past. For me, the rest of it was just an excuse for him to look mean, moody and hot as he disposed of supposedly hard to kill Wraith with his big gun. If I was meant to be impressed by male strength and power I was definitely impressed by the Wraith hive leader even though he wasn't hot because I was thinking "Wow - he's awesome".

Teyla not so much,

I like Teyla. She's a warrior with intelligence and diplomatic skills. I've always seen her as ending up like a female version of Brat'ac in around 30 or so years time.

and I think it's because she's too...good, calm and nice.

If I was going to pick a group of warriors I'd go for people like Teyla, Teal'c and Bra'tac A calm warrior is likely to be good at tactics and strategy. Berserker types are useful if you need 'shock troops' but a bit of a liability the rest of the time. The only kind of berserker I'd want is a warrior who had learned a technique for working himself/herself into a battle frenzy so this state was optional, not automatic.

Woolsey's beyond awesome though. Don't know how that worked out.

I've always liked Woolsey. As I'm in the UK I only got to see 'The Seed' last night. and I was very impressed with the way he handled things.

Long story short, give me flawed humans instead of perfect soldiers. Make them do emotionally-driven, stupid, stubborn, even ethically-challenged things so I can better relate to them.

Give me characters with emotions who are capable of considering such things as "I know I want to punch this guy in the face but would it be the most constructive thing to do right now?"

Stubborn as in the following definition? -

refusing to move or change one's opinion; obstinate

This, to me, conjures up the worst kind of 'by the book' military type. Refusing to give up is one thing but refusing to listen to reason or advice is another.

I certainly wouldn't want characters who never made mistakes but there's a limit to how much stupidity I can take. See previous criticisms of Sheppard in this topic.

I'd expect characters to be faced with ethically challenging situations in a series which is supposed to have some drama in it. Life isn't just black and white - there are many shades of grey in between.

I really don't care about regs and regulations; give me some interesting characters instead. You want military officers? I don't want the shiny-buttoned, perfect collar...line, buzz cut that you can set a watch to, or whatever;

Neither do I.

give me the renegade, the unique, special "officers" like Sheppard, someone who aren't cookie cutter soldier.

Give me competent soldiers who have served in SGC teams for a few years. They regard 'the book' as offering useful guidelines for many situations but when it comes to alien races and conditions on alien plants they are capable of making it up as they go along if neccessary.