"Stargate Universe" Discussion/Speculation (Spoilers)

[PG15]

Charting worlds and fully analyzing each world are different things. The automated ship seems to only make the Stargates and then plant them somewhere. Any detailed scans would probably be too much, and will be done by the Ancients who eventually would've gated to the second ship to check out these new networks.

At this point though, the info is scarce and the premise is most likely going to change if and when they start writing the series.

I suppose it's what you consider modern day. If I'm reading this right, it appears you need to be able to directly relate to their POV and references, whereas to me it's the sense of being logically realistic in the here and now - in particular the scientific and social sense.

That sounds about right, more or less.

Or, another way of looking at it, if you removed the pop culture references what makes the characters any different from any other sci-fi character?

The knowledge that they came from the here and now allows me to see them in that light. It's hard to describe, but they're also written to have our voices, if you know what I mean. It's not always pop-culture references either, (BAMSR spoilers)

Spoiler:

Before the big battle, Caldwell made a reference to the Cold War; I thought that was pretty cool, and it grounded him

[smurf]

That sounds about right, more or less.



The knowledge that they came from the here and now allows me to see them in that light. It's hard to describe, but they're also written to have our voices, if you know what I mean. It's not always pop-culture references either, (BAMSR spoilers)

Spoiler:

Before the big battle, Caldwell made a reference to the Cold War; I thought that was pretty cool, and it grounded him

That's interesting, I would find that limiting as a definition of modern day human - seeing as the shows are almost entirely US-centric (or North American-centric) in reference - but on the other hand, for you and others it would mean that any show with the requisite references would still hit that uniqueness that I think would be missing from this new show.
Unless they wind the time line back, or ignore a large proportion of current canon, which I suppose they could do if they wanted.

At this point though, the info is scarce and the premise is most likely going to change if and when they start writing the series.

I hope so. So far it doesn't sound very Stargate, and also not very interesting on a general sci-fi level.
At the very least, I'm hoping that they have no choice but to gate on and off the ship.

[amconway]

I think that this idea has great potential! On my first read of the news article, I was concerned as I missed the "the ninth chevron will allow the team to reach this second, still unmanned Ancient ship", leading me to think the cast of characters might be ancients. Whew! I was relieved when I read more carefully! It's not Stargate if it's not modern folks from Earth going out into the Galaxy/s/universe. Don't forget that the first ship that has gone ahead is seeding stargates. That means that they will be able to gate all over as they pass through space - kind of like an SGC that moves.

To me, this takes us back to the days when gate travel was intrinsically dangerous, before the SGC had a fleet for backup. Having only one ship means that threats can't be resolved with a big space battle. The distances involved mean that they won't be able to gate back to Earth for help very often (if at all),or depend on the Asgard or Tok'Ra for help.

The concept also puts the emphasis back on exploration and discovery. Exploration allows for societal examination and comparison. The search for knowledge was at the heart of SG-1 and has been somewhat lost in Stargate Atlantis.

It will really come down to the characters. SG-1 has a larger design in terms of character than Atlantis. The team, in combination, represents an ideal of the human race: Bravery, humor, resilience and the ability to question the status quo (Jack O'Neill); pragmatism, loyalty, the pursuit of scientific knowledge and equality (Sam Carter); compassion, empathy, self sacrifice and an unending quest for knowldege and understanding for its own sake (Daniel Jackson); wisdom, honor, devotion to freedom and strength of character (Teal'c).

All the characters shared these archetypical qualities, but it is most evident when they are looked at in combination, which made them the ideal team; stronger as a whole than in part, but still human with flaws and weaknesses which could be used to explore all aspects of human nature.

Daniel Jackson was probably the most interesting character on the team because he had the furthest to travel. Initially the character had a naive optimism and sweet nature that was tempered, over time, by tragedy and necessity.

The nature of the SG-1 team allows for greater examination of what it means to be human; how are we changed by experience and exposure to both good and evil and a host of greater questions than "how do we beat these guys?".

I would like to see this kind of story and character development rather than the more static set of characters and story arc in Stargate Atlantis. While I enjoy Atlantis, I find that the characters are pretty much the same people that they were when the show started. We haven't really learned a lot about them and the characters haven't really learned much about themselves. I'm hoping for a steep learning curve this season!

[Sidenote:Cam Mitchell fits into this archetype as a character who sacrificed himself (over Antarctica) for the team and embodies belief in the team and it's goal against all odds, basic human decency, and an unthinking willingness to endanger himself for the good of the team. Vala does not fit this notion, yet. While she is loyal, brave and sacrificed herself (to close the super gate), she is also venal, unscrupulous, self serving, and untruthful. Representative of humanity? Sadly, yes, she is. Part of an archetype of what is noble in "the fifth race"? Nope. Generally, Vala weakens the cohesiveness of the team, rather than strengthening it. However, she did change a great deal from Prometheus Unbound, so the potential is there to add "redemption" to the archetype. I just hope that they speed things up before I have to reach right through the TV screen to smack her upside the head. ]

[KindlyKeller]

While I enjoy Atlantis, I find that the characters are pretty much the same people that they were when the show started. We haven't really learned a lot about them and the characters haven't really learned much about themselves.

"Hi, I'm Rodney McKay, and I'm here to completely invalidate this statement in every way."

[amconway]

I thought about Rodney when I said that, but decided that while he had made a fair amount of movement toward humanity, he is still too self centered and, well, annoying to consider to have really changed intrinsically. And the whining.... Let's not forget the whining....

[KindlyKeller]

I thought about Rodney when I said that, but decided that while he had made a fair amount of movement toward humanity, he is still too self centered and, well, annoying to consider to have really changed intrinsically. And the whining.... Let's not forget the whining....

To say that he's "pretty much the same character as when the show started" is just totally inaccurate, though, as you yourself basically just said. Whether you still think he's too selfish or whiney for your liking -- an opinion you're surely not alone in -- doesn't mean he hasn't changed (and in a major way), which was the standard you laid out.

Personally, I don't even think he's that selfish anymore. I mean, look at The Last Man:

Spoiler:

He sacrifices his entire life working on something that could easily never come to fruition or work.

[amconway]

Ah! But that time line no longer exists, so he can't be said to have done that. Isn't time tavel a b***h? I really enjoyed that episode, though. It had just the kind of character development that I like to see but, sadly, all gone now!
But seriously, I know that I was generalizing. Rodney has come a long way! Just think of how he was when he first met Sam back on SG-1! Sheppard and Beckett have had issues with some of the choices they have had to make as well. Generally, though, I don't find the character development very fulfilling. This is through no fault of the actors - it's all about the story arc.

[KindlyKeller]

It's a fair point in general, for sure. While I like the characters very much, especially Sheppard, I don't have any difficulty agreeing with you that he hasn't much "evolved" throughout the series, as much as I love him.

[amconway]

I agree- and it's very irksome when good characters, played by accomplished actors, aren't given as much emotional range as they could be playing....

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

Personally, its a 50/50 thing with me meaning that it could be good or it could be bad. It sounds epic yet for that reason it might be unfeasible. I do like the idea of exploring the great big unknown of galaxies yet I feel that might be a task too big for a small team of explorers whose world nations havent even united into a single government. I do want some level of contact with Earth but I don't want to see Asgard superships destroying all the enemies in Earths path. I also hope we see truly alien foes this time around but the setting does mean that its possible that any links to Earth mythology might be forgotten on this journey.

I will withhold judgement until more develops on this front though I do like the idea of seeding gates across the universe. Sounds somewhat grandscale and appropriate to something the Ancients would do. I can picture somekind of matter creator device just forming a gate inside the craft and then either beaming it to the surface or controlling it through some kind of tractor beam while setting the area for its deployment.

I do hope though that the designs and architecture of these Ancient ships and technology match that of previous designs. Because the ones from Atlantis and SG-1 look nothing alike and if you werent told that they were Ancient then it would look like the products of two different civilizations rather then the works of a single one.

[FoolishPleasure]

I'm looking forward to a new approach to Stargate. I don't like the direction Atlantis has taken with killing off good characters for shock value, and I can't stand two new characters at all (Keller and Woolsey), so yeah, bring on something different.

[amconway]

I hadn't thought of the possible loss of Earth mythology in the cultures of the new galaxy/galaxies. That is a very good point. I'm of two minds about that. The thread of earth culture in Goa'uld seeded planets has been a very interesting connecting factor. On the other hand, without it, the writers may have more freedom to create more truly alien cultures. Hmmm.... An interesting quandry.... A very good point indeed.

[KindlyKeller]

Though without the "the Ancients seeded life, which is while we all look the same" factor at play, suspension of disbelief will become even more difficult.

[glennh73]

Im sorry but i think most of you didnt get the whole story here. Though hope i dont get banned but here is the part you guys left out.

("And that's going to present stories and themes such as solar systems, entire civilizations where entropy has increased in the system so much that energy, in any form, is incredibly valuable. And here comes this ship rich with energy from a younger part of the galaxy. And they're going to want it. They're going to think we're rich. In fact, that's not going to be the case.")

(THE ENEMY
Exploring multiple galaxies and parts of the universe where even the Ancients have never been means running into civilizations they never met, let alone seeded themselves (as is the case in the Milky Way and Pegasus Galaxies). The show's premise clearly sets up some good potential for interesting new enemies.


"This is part of the pitch, so I'm not 100 percent sure this is going to be how it pans out: Robert and I have been talking about not having a 'Goa'uld' or a 'Wraith.' Certainly not up front. Enemies is exactly how we want to pursue it, as opposed to defining this bad alien force that defines the entire galaxy, [which is] what the Goa'uld and the Wraith were.")

So unless they changed that part, it does make it more interesting.

I just dont want to see the same pine tree filled forest each week and same medieval towns along with human aliens.

[Darren]

Hi all!

Brad has given us the scoop on the premise for Stargate Universe, which you can now find at GateWorld:

http://www.gateworld.net/news/2008/0...revealed.shtml

I am opening up this thread for discussion again. You can also discuss this particular news story in this thread:

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=53690

Please DO NOT repost or quote from the old, unfinished and deleted story. This new story includes almost all the same info, so hopefully it will be enough to tide us all over until more info about the new show is made public.

Thanks!