Alteran-Ori Conflict: Impossible? (AOT SPOILERS)

[Vala_M]

I don't think the Ori were ascended until about 2000 years ago or so. Otherwise:

1. They would have wiped out the Alterans immediately millenea ago
2. We know that they wanted to destroy the Ancients, why wait millenea when they could have destroyed them as humans since they ascended millions of years ago to 10000 years ago
3. In "The Pegasus Project", I believe Daniel stated that Merlin descended to work on the Sangraal Because he recognized the thread the Ori would one day become. Implying they weren't ascended until after the Ancients ascended and we know that Merlin began work on the Sangraal around 1000 years ago.

Vala,

[RepliVeggie]

I don't think the Ori were ascended until about 2000 years ago or so. Otherwise:

1. They would have wiped out the Alterans immediately millenea ago
2. We know that they wanted to destroy the Ancients, why wait millenea when they could have destroyed them as humans since they ascended millions of years ago to 10000 years ago
3. In "The Pegasus Project", I believe Daniel stated that Merlin descended to work on the Sangraal Because he recognized the thread the Ori would one day become. Implying they weren't ascended until after the Ancients ascended and we know that Merlin began work on the Sangraal around 1000 years ago.

Vala,

1.) A millennia is only 1000 years. They have likely been ascended about 10-20,000 years or so. And by then the Alterans had been gone 30-50 million years or more.
2.) Likely the Ori before ascending had no idea where the Alteran's went or likely that they had even left. I don't think the planet Ortus Mallum was on was inhabited.
3.) I think what was implied was that he recognized the threat they would become to the Ancients if they ever found out they were still around. Not that he realized they would ascend. But it is possible.

[Sauron18]

I think the Ori could've ascended at any time after the Alterans left their galaxy.

Ascension wouldn't allow them to know everything, so while their "sight" would certainly be a lot better, it would still take time for them to find the Alterans in a such a large universe.

As for when they found them, we can guess that this was around the time when they actually did strike at them, with the plague.

After this most Alterans ascended and well.....outnumbered the Ori on the higher planes, making themeselves and those below safe from that threat.

After this, also, is probably when the Ori decided to seed their galaxy with humans (around the same time the Ancients did too, probably), and the rest is history.

[Erak the Lantean]

I think the Ori could've ascended at any time after the Alterans left their galaxy.

Ascension wouldn't allow them to know everything, so while their "sight" would certainly be a lot better, it would still take time for them to find the Alterans in a such a large universe.

As for when they found them, we can guess that this was around the time when they actually did strike at them, with the plague.

After this most Alterans ascended and well.....outnumbered the Ori on the higher planes, making themeselves and those below safe from that threat.

After this, also, is probably when the Ori decided to seed their galaxy with humans (around the same time the Ancients did too, probably), and the rest is history.

But if the Ori actually did find the Alterans, why didn't they record the location of the milky way galaxy? The only thing the Ori said regarding Alteran Exodus so far was that the Alterans fled to the corners of the Avermackis which we can assume is the Alteran name for the universe.

[Sauron18]

But if the Ori actually did find the Alterans, why didn't they record the location of the milky way galaxy? The only thing the Ori said regarding Alteran Exodus so far was that the Alterans fled to the corners of the Avermackis which we can assume is the Alteran name for the universe.

What do you mean?

The Ori knew (from the moment we met them) the location of the Milky Way, and they knew their ascended rivals lived there.

The only thing they didn't know was that there were normal humans there, which is what the Others hid from them. But the they knew where the galaxy itself was.

[Erak the Lantean]

What do you mean?

The Ori knew (from the moment we met them) the location of the Milky Way, and they knew their ascended rivals lived there.

The only thing they didn't know was that there were normal humans there, which is what the Others hid from them. But the they knew where the galaxy itself was.

My apologies,
I was simply wondering why (if the Ori knew that the Alterans had once lived in the milky way galaxy) why they never sent anything else to destroy them. Clearly a plague would weaken them yes but if the Ori had any sort of knowledge regarding genocidal tactics they would have sent an armada of ships hundreds of centuries ago.

However this theory does discount the idea that the plague was a 'natural' phenonemon(sp?) and implies that the Ori did unleash it.

Offcourse it may be that the Ori were far more arrogant than their Alteran brethren and Ascension only accelerated thier ego trip so they believed that their plague could not be defeated.

Sorry if this does not make grammatical sense, Yesterday I had my wisdom teeth taken out and so I'm still abit groggy.

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

Here's what I think about the timeline with the Ancients:
*The Ancients (both Alterra and Ori) live as one society who begin exploring their own galaxy and make great leaps in technology though it takes hundreds of years as they develop.
*At sometime, they discover Ascension; the process of shedding their corporeal forms and living as energy which became a goal for their race to achieve.
*A split occurs in the Ancients society with the race becoming the Ori, who are in majority, and the Alterra, who are in minority. The former see it religiously while the latter just believe in science.
*The division becomes more violent as the more fanatical members of the Ori rouse their people to exterminate the Alterrans. There is also a repression in technology with only the higher 'priests' being allowed access to.
*The peaceful Alterra retreat to a far off world where they decide on what to do and agree to leave the galaxy to find a new home where they can continue their scientific development.
*Amelius develops the Ark and the working idea of the Stargates. The Ark was designed to change the view points of the Ori many of whom were good people but their leaders were twisting the developed religion. Amelius is convinced not to do so as it would be a crime despite the persecution they are facing. They leave the world and head off into the void between galaxies to find their new home.
*The Ori find out that the Alterra have left and decide to leave them to their fate, perhaps thinking that they might die on their voyage. They set up a base of operations on the planet where the Alterran base was located and perhaps use left over Alterran technology for their own ends. The galaxy continues to regress as they seek to naturally evolve and Ascend.
*After thousands of years journeying through the universe, the Alterrans settle in a new galaxy and attempt to rebuild once more.

The rest we know though do note that I am not saying this is canon just my view and speculation. I think the reason why there were more Ori in the beginning yet few Alterra but the opposite happening after Ascension is because the Ori became corrupted by their own power and would not share it with others. While the Alterrans allowed those who knew of Ascension to join their ranks. Plus I think the natural evolutionary process might have meant that many of those Ori who tried to Ascend died in the process leaving even fewer members to have achieved their goal. Its also possible that initially the Ori were quite benevolent to their followers but became twisted even further after recieving energy willingly from their followers.

The reason I say that is because Merlin himself said that the Ori did have the best of intentions at first, similar to Oma did when she started Ascending people. Also remember that technically quite a few points in Origin arent necessarily bad but are twisted by certain followers like the Administrator Prior who changed the story of Markon in order to suit his purpose in destroying the village in "Line in the Sand". I think quite a few points in Origin are good but were twisted for the Ori's use post Ascension and post when they became corrupted.

I also think Ascension and technological development took a very long time for the Ancients because they were the first sentient and advanced race which meant they had no help and had to do everything from scratch. This would explain why Ascension took so long for them to achieve yet second evolution Humans are capable of it through the help of an Ascended being.

[RepliVeggie]

I am still not 100% sure it was the Ori that hit the Alterans with the plague. If it was I don't think they found the Alterans and sent it there somehow maybe they attacked the Alterans with it before they left and it lay dormant for along time or something along those lines.

[Sauron18]

I am still not 100% sure it was the Ori that hit the Alterans with the plague. If it was I don't think they found the Alterans and sent it there somehow maybe they attacked the Alterans with it before they left and it lay dormant for along time or something along those lines.

I don't know, I feel like making the Ori responsible for the plague that nearly ended the Ancients' civilization would explain the attitude the Others had for them, and the intense fear both Merlin & Morgan had for them.

I mean, if we discount that, the only thing we have is the "threat" to them before they left Celestis, which doesn't seem to have been that much, so I think the Ori must've done something much more terrible (plague) to make the Ancients believe they could really wipe them out.

[jenks]

How could the Ori possibly have created a plague?

[Sauron18]

How could the Ori possibly have created a plague?

Well, at this point they would've already ascended.

[jenks]

Well, at this point they would've already ascended.

If they'd already ascended then why not just wipe the Ancients out using their ascended powers?

[Erak the Lantean]

If they'd already ascended then why not just wipe the Ancients out using their ascended powers?

Writers who couldn't look forward eight years ago?

Jenks btw, Your signature ROCKS.

[Sauron18]

If they'd already ascended then why not just wipe the Ancients out using their ascended powers?

The plague would qualify as them using their ascended powers.

I know you probably mean energy attacks and things like we've seen Ascended beings use before, but when you consider the fact that they'd have to strike at a Spacefaring Empire of that magnitude then those types of attacks, although effective at first, would not be as effective in the end.

If the Ori devastate a planet, then the Ancients on thousands of others would just escape and once again be lost to the Ori. If they release a plague, however, they might be able to take out a larger amount of the population before the Ancients realize what's going on. As would seem to have been the case, with only a small group of Ancients leaving for Pegasus.

That's how I see it anyways, but it makes sense to me......

[jenks]

Wouldn't it make more sense if the plague had nothing to do with the Ori all together?