Illogical Final Battle in "Ark of Truth"? (spoilers for AoT, obviously)

[Alterran1.]

We have no evidence the crystals in their staffs are limited after all the Ancient communication device had no problem contacting the Ori galaxy.

The Prior also using his staff seemed to have no problem taking Gerak's mind to Celestis

The only possible evidence is that they had to use the Ark on the Prior at Earth though no evidence was shown that this effected anyone but him unlike when the Doci was shown the ark.

He neither had his staff nor his abilities when the information was passed between the Priors from the Doci.

[Dutch_Razor]

So, aside from being hilaaaarious because of the rampant lack of finished CGI, wasn't the Final Battle between Adria and Morgan le Fay kinda illogical and plot-holy?

OK, so the CGI isn't done yet but it kinda looks like the two women actually killed each other. We know this can't happen as established by the eternal struggle between Anubis and Oma. Or is that a "special" case because... um... Anubis is only half-Ascended, so he cannot be killed as opposed to a fully Ascended?!

No, precedent states that two Ascended beings fighting will be locked in an eternal battle.

Let's move onto the next plothole (the size of Alaska):
What's up with Morgan le Fay being able to even match Adria in power?!

OK, so the Ark of Truth just stole away most of her powers by turning the Priors in the Ori galaxy, the Doci and possibly the people within hearing range of the Priors against her. Um... OK. So she lost a little bit of power.

But that still leaves the many worlds not currently with a Prior to shout "Stop worshipping them now!", not to mention the many planets converted in the Milky Way! Adria should still have plenty of power or at least enough to overpower Morgan, but Morgan went all "I am [a match for you] now!" and dived straight in... and matched her in power!

So... um... what? Does Morgan have some kind of secret cult of worshippers encompassing a few million because, really, that's how many worshippers Adria should still have left.

I woudln't be suprised if Morgan la Fey is actually Maria or something, so all the "worshippers" direct power to her even if she doesn't "need" it. Perhaps the Others receive power from general god worshipping, even though they did not actively propogate that?

[flameling]

The Others aren't idiots. They wouldn't give Anubis the means to kill other Ascended beings by allowing him to become a Milky Way Ori (they probably have, you know, rules against that).

They probably do, but their punishment to Oma was that NO ancient can interfere with Anubis, and I wouldn't be surprised of a few Jaffa considered him god. Back to Adria and Morgan, maybe a few priors minds were there or they couldn't get power from the milky way due to the ancients blacking it or something.

[freetoken]

It sounds as if TPTB did in AoT what they have done in SGA in season 4. That is, the plot comes to an uncomfortably quick and easy ending - everything comes together just in the nick of time.

This is sad, as it means the SG universe doesn't have any real drama (or good stories) anymore, but just formulas for 42 minutes (or, in the case of DVD movies, maybe 84 minutes.)

Perhaps the best thing MGM could do for its Stargate franchise is to take it away from the current team (of producers and writers).

[g.o.d]

Perhaps the best thing MGM could do for its Stargate franchise is to take it away from the current team (of producers and writers).

YES!!!!

[BloomGate]

It sounds as if TPTB did in AoT what they have done in SGA in season 4. That is, the plot comes to an uncomfortably quick and easy ending - everything comes together just in the nick of time.

That is an interesting perspective that I have never heard before although I'm not sure what you are proposing. Are you suggesting that they end the plot before the end of the show and add filler? It sounds to me like you don't like climactic conclusions - which are a staple of the action/adventure genre.

Can you give me examples of which episodes from the past that you liked and which from season 4 that you didn't like? It would help me understand what you are referring to.

This is sad, as it means the SG universe doesn't have any real drama (or good stories) anymore, but just formulas for 42 minutes (or, in the case of DVD movies, maybe 84 minutes.)

Listing which eps you like and don't like will explain this for me. I don't think that season 4 has been formulaic more than any other season.

Perhaps the best thing MGM could do for its Stargate franchise is to take it away from the current team (of producers and writers).

LOL That's funny. It would kill the franchise.

[Mister Oragahn]

Again, NO PROOF to your statement.

Bring proof of your o-pi-nion! O-bey! O-bey!

What about checking the definition of opinion for a change?

[NoobTau'ri]

Illlogical Final Battle in "Ark of Truth"?

I think that Morgan was imbeded with the power of the entire ascended Ancient collective for that battle. It was not her against Adria.

[NoobTau'ri]

I think that this is what the writers are trying to tell us:

Tau'ri >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ancients

We have finally surpassed them. In only ten years, we have surpassed their tens if not hundreds of million sof years of existence and experience.

[pristinaheather]

anubis wouldnt get that power because he was only half ascended. he was only allowed what power he could have emassed when he was a plain go'ould and sadly (for the snakes) they never actually gained anything from worshipers. on a similar ticket, i think the oma/ anubis battle differs from the final battle in AOT because oma was being punished. i also think its implied that the ori spintered a bit of the power they held to the priors in order to "recruit" more worshipers. i just assumed when the ark was opened she lost most of her power what with so much of it loaned to the priors, and she was defeated in her immediate daze... or whatever.

i was just disappointed because i wanted to learn more about the ori/ancient split

[gopher65]

Anubis vs. Oma. Ancient Ascended Being vs. Half-Ascended Being. Outcome? Eternal stalemate.
<snip>
And you're still forgetting about the part where Anubis told Oma "You can't kill me" to which Oma replied "No, but I can fight you and all you can do is fight back". Of course, it could be argued the Others put in state some kind of mechanism against killing Anubis (for whatever reason) but that would just be stupid.

I got the feeling both from the show and the commentaries that Daniel had the power to kill Anubis, which is why Oma stopped him (the director says that Anubis was afraid of Daniel, and that's why he raises his hand when Daniel starts charging up his hands). It is also clear however that even though Oma herself can overpower Daniel, she can't kill Anubis. In my mind I reconciled these showstopping facts by saying that The Others had put some sort of mechanism in place to prevent Oma, and only Oma, from stopping Anubis. That was part of her punishment for breaking the rules. She could only sit back and watch Anubis go crazy killing people, helpless to stop him directly.

[shadowfox87]

Wow long thread. Well, here's my opinion. To understand Morgan Le Fay vs Adria, we must consider Oma vs Anubis. Anubis is half ascended, therefore Oma>Anubis, but Oma cannot kill Anubis and Anubis cannot kill Oma, so we got a stalemate. Yea I understand that Adria's powers were "greatly diminished", but not nullified, BUT by the same logic, Adria>Morgan Le Fay. Morgan doesn't have to be equal in power to "match" Adria just like Anubis was not equal with Oma. Therefore, it is another eternal battle. Ascended beings should not have the power to destroy each other regardless of how strong they are relative to others.

Yea I know you're probably wondering what's the whole point of Ori gaining power then? The point was not to KILL the ancients with more power. The rule was that the Ancients don't interfere if the Ori don't. That's why the Ori had to use vessels to do what they wanted instead of personally doing it themselves. With more power, the Ori would then have the ability to defy the Ancients and do what they want. They don't have to kill the Ancients to do that. Gaining more power was a means to gain supremacy over the Ancients, but not kill them.

Eternal battles are cool because they can always bring back old villains. Hopefully we'll see good ol' Anubis again. As for Adria, to me, she is a good person and will probably help us later on...I want to see more Morena Baccarin!! lol

sidenote:Also, something even more illogical, can someone explain to me why the Odyssey's shields are so fricking strong?? I mean there's 4 Ori ships shooting at it....

[Mitchell82]

So, aside from being hilaaaarious because of the rampant lack of finished CGI, wasn't the Final Battle between Adria and Morgan le Fay kinda illogical and plot-holy?

OK, so the CGI isn't done yet but it kinda looks like the two women actually killed each other. We know this can't happen as established by the eternal struggle between Anubis and Oma. Or is that a "special" case because... um... Anubis is only half-Ascended, so he cannot be killed as opposed to a fully Ascended?!

No, precedent states that two Ascended beings fighting will be locked in an eternal battle.

Let's move onto the next plothole (the size of Alaska):
What's up with Morgan le Fay being able to even match Adria in power?!

OK, so the Ark of Truth just stole away most of her powers by turning the Priors in the Ori galaxy, the Doci and possibly the people within hearing range of the Priors against her. Um... OK. So she lost a little bit of power.

But that still leaves the many worlds not currently with a Prior to shout "Stop worshipping them now!", not to mention the many planets converted in the Milky Way! Adria should still have plenty of power or at least enough to overpower Morgan, but Morgan went all "I am [a match for you] now!" and dived straight in... and matched her in power!

So... um... what? Does Morgan have some kind of secret cult of worshippers encompassing a few million because, really, that's how many worshippers Adria should still have left.

First even without the finished CGI it looks like another eternal battle. No lone Ascended being could match her in power prior to the Ark being used. Once the Ark activated Adria was rapidly loosing power and was vulnerable. With the Priors turned that basically shut the spigot off. With her power diminished Morgan was more than a match for her.

[kymeric]

sidenote:Also, something even more illogical, can someone explain to me why the Odyssey's shields are so fricking strong?? I mean there's 4 Ori ships shooting at it....

Season 3 SGA tao of rodney: Mckay creates a upgrage to the 303 shields, may have needed to be explained to an asgard engineer.

That plus a ZPM powering it makes up the slack.

[g.o.d]

. Once the Ark activated Adria was rapidly loosing power and was vulnerable. With the Priors turned that basically shut the spigot off. With her power diminished Morgan was more than a match for her.

how was that possible? Cooper didn't bother to explain that. They just opened that box and suddenly Adria was weaker