If we're both using our own definition then I can say it's something is not a plot hole when you say it is, and vice versa. So yes, the point it moot.
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So? Why would they complicate the movie and give sceentime to something which doesnt need to be explained to a mass market when the answer is already available in the stargate series for existing fans.Originally posted by kirmit View Post
And disputing that there isnt a plot hole because somebody uses their definition, and a widely available one, as opposed to yours is awfully rhetoric when your saying things like "by my definition"... hmmm?
MOOT
Keep your eyes on the stars and your feet on the ground. - Roosevelt
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Look it is never said in the movie nor implied it was Mckays upgrades, that is just a guess by fans without any support, so it is an unanswered question.Originally posted by jamesgilfoyle View PostSo? Why would they complicate the movie and give sceentime to something which doesnt need to be explained to a mass market when the answer is already available in the stargate series for existing fans.
And disputing that there isnt a plot hole because somebody uses their definition, and a widely available one, as opposed to yours is awfully rhetoric when your saying things like "by my definition"... hmmm?
MOOT
Lol again missing the point, what jenks is saying isn't a widely available one, I searched various site for a definition and didn't find one like his, if it was widely available don't you think that would've come up first? Jenks has his own personal definition, I have mine, there is no real definition to compare to.
The point is you can't say we're wrong for saying it's a plot hole, this thing started when LIR said Nikki was wrong for calling it a plot hole whereas neither LIR or anyone can say Nikki and me and the many others are wrong because there is no set definition. Yes likewise we can't say you're wrong either but this started with someone telling someone else they're wrong when they didn't really have the right to.Comment
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How is it speculation when the show -STARGATE ATLANTIS- which im pretty sure is classed as stargate cannon these days? clearly has the shielding upgrade - why is it not logical for this upgrade to have been simply installed -- without explaining it so as not to complicate the movie even more for any new viewers?Originally posted by kirmit View Post
You got it in one!Explain... why is that a plothole?Its an unanswered question.
Does that mean that...
(SGA S4 Spoilers)
Spoiler:
Think it through
But instead of battling about it here - why not take the question to a writers blog perhaps? You never know, one of them might respond
Keep your eyes on the stars and your feet on the ground. - Roosevelt
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OK... I have a question to everybody. Why do you think that the casual viewer, and particularly the NEW one, who isn't familiar with the series, neither SG-1 nor Atlantis needs to know whose upgrades to the ship made it survive the Ori ship's fire? I don't watch Atlantis and I have no idea about McKay's upgrades and for me it doesn't matter. The ship's shields are strong enough to survive the fire and that's OK. I don't need technical explanation to this why they survived. The movie is not about it.Comment
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Exactly.Keep your eyes on the stars and your feet on the ground. - Roosevelt
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Ok you want to point out to me the point in AoT where it says the Oddy got Mckays upgrades? Or point out where in any show it says the upgrade would increase the shields 20 fold? Infact from BAMSR we can assume the upgrades are no where near that asOriginally posted by jamesgilfoyle View PostHow is it speculation when the show -STARGATE ATLANTIS- which im pretty sure is classed as stargate cannon these days? clearly has the shielding upgrade - why is it not logical for this upgrade to have been simply installed -- without explaining it so as not to complicate the movie even more for any new viewers?
You got it in one! Explain... why is that a plothole?
Does that mean that...
(SGA S4 Spoilers)
Spoiler:
Think it through
But instead of battling about it here - why not take the question to a writers blog perhaps? You never know, one of them might respondSpoiler:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_hole here, read what that says a plothole is, even give examples of their definition by that definition it would be a plot hole.
Think of it this way, you're an SG-1 fan, just an SG-1 fan, one episode the best upgrades Earth has allows them to take 5 Ori beam shots, in the movie they can take dozens and dozens, what would you think?
BTW the Weir thing, bad example, the definition that I showed says an unanswered question that's essential to the plot, how is the Weir thing essential to the plot?
LIR that can't work because even though the movie is for non fans it's also aimed at current fans aswell, unless they're ignoring the Sg-1 fans.Last edited by kirmit; 10 January 2008, 02:10 PM.Comment
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Obviously it says neither or you wouldn't be asking the question. Could you possibly explain your reasoning of why the upgrade would need to be 20 fold? In Unending, the Oddy took quite a few hits before time was slowed. Can you give me a definitive explanation of shield regeneration rates? So like how many hits can a ship take before the shields stop regenerating quickly? Is it exponential? Is it geometric? Is it arithmetic? How does it work? At one point, shields were at roughly over 50% and then a few shots later they were at 23% and then gone. So, how many licks DOES it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop? Or how many shots until the shields completely fail? Are there any other factors that could come into play? Maybe because the systems had just been installed and not fully tested they weren't at peak efficiency? If you truly mean to state a case that this is a plot hole, you need some factual evidence to back your position up.Originally posted by kirmit View Post
I'm LMAO that anyone would intentionally use wikipedia as support for anything. In case you didn't know, wikipedia isn't written by one person or set of persons working together. That is why it is not only possible, but common, for many entries to contradict each other. It's inconsistent and unreliable as a general rule.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_hole here, read what that says a plothole is, even give examples of their definition by that definition it would be a plot hole.
As for the examples they give, I need go no further than the first one. College football players are NOT household names NOR recognizable by sight. In America, football players wear helmets and their face is obscured 100% of the time while they are on the field. Even 'star' footaball players that are professional aren't always recognizable by sight to the fans of the city they play in. So, in the case of Crockett, the idea that he would be recognizable YEARS after a key play in 1 college game is laughable at best. Your source has no credibility right off the bat.
I think most fans don't sit there and count the shots that a spaceship takes. They simply enjoy the story being told.Think of it this way, you're an SG-1 fan, just an SG-1 fan, one episode the best upgrades Earth has allows them to take 5 Ori beam shots, in the movie they can take dozens and dozens, what would you think?
I really don't get this fixation by so many about alleged plot holes - and it's not just here. One web page I read in looking up this phenomena was debunking alleged plot holes in the Harry Potter series. Most of them were debunked because the people declaring the plot holes hadn't apparently read the books or recalled the portions of the books that had explained them.
Again, I ask the question: Who's giving out cookies for finding plot holes in things?The Characters from Bloom County were located to another world where they could live in Peace and avoid the wrath of Jeanne Kirkpatrick.
Here's a photo of Bill the Cat hanging out by the gate waiting for more partying supplies:
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Not to troll but why would you watch something u hate? Moreso why would you talk about watching something you hate? I mean i hate bsg but but u dont see me in the bsg folder posting about how so and so sucks or how this or that is a plothole. Find a new hobby.Comment
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Obviously we here have many deferent opinions on what is and isn’t a plot hole. So can we agree to disagree, that is the beauty of discussions. We can not always have everyone see eye to eye but we can have everyone state their reasons and move on. Maybe even opening minds to new possibilities along the way. I personally enjoyed the movie (it could use more Daniel, Vala ship-ness but hey I’m a DV Shipper LOL) but in the over all scheme of things I believe we all here that enjoy or had enjoyed SG1 for tens years can come together and say that this movie was better than no movie at all!
At least that is my opinion.
As always,
Nef
Here's to the hope that Stargate SG-1 is truly Unending!Spoiler:Comment
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I'm sorry, but I completely disagree here. To me, the writers can't just make ships invincible whenever they feel like it; it completely ruins any feeling of suspense for me. The next time I see the Odyssey, I won't care if it's in danger or not, because TPTB have made it clear that they'll just magically make the shields invulnerable every time it's threatened.Originally posted by Ladyinred View Post
It would be like you're reading this really great novel, and the good guys are just about to catch the bad guys... but then the bad guy's wearing a bulletproof vest that can magically abosrb two full clips of bullets to the same area. You'd be scratching your head going "okay, what!?"Click the banner or episode links to visit the virtual continuations of Stargate!Previous Episode: 11x03 "Shore Leave" | Previous Episode: 6x04 "Nightfall" | Now Airing: 3x06 "Eldest"The Continuing Stargate Wiki | Stargate: Avalon l The New "Ark of Truth" | Stargate: Universe Reviews | Banner designs by Alx
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I agree with your point 100%. However, that being said, I think there are 2 mitigating factors in this specific instance.Originally posted by s09119 View Post
1. We haven't seen anything but a work in progess. It's not the final version. I would equate it to someone getting a pre-release version of a video game prior to final QA (testing), and complaining that on level 23 if you do something or other, your player dies for no reason. Chances are that the final testing would make that problem go away.
2. Because it's NOT final version, the writers can't comment on it if it was an editing issue. I could see that if it were something in the script, but edited out, it might be in the outtakes to explain it. It could be that it returns in the director's cut after being left out of the editors cut. It could be that it was edited out, didn't make the outtakes, but they explain that point later in a blog on gateworld or Joe's blog.
Also, beyond that, I went back and watched Unending again and noticed a couple things. One was that the new systems were just installed. The weapons hadn't even been tested yet. It's reasonable to think that the new shields weren't operating at 100% efficiency.
Either way, there's probably a good explanation for the apparent discrepency and we won't know until the final version is released.The Characters from Bloom County were located to another world where they could live in Peace and avoid the wrath of Jeanne Kirkpatrick.
Here's a photo of Bill the Cat hanging out by the gate waiting for more partying supplies:
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From what I heard:Originally posted by Dr.Mckay View Post
Spoiler:
Also in Unending, here are the shield strengths and impacts.
Spoiler:
So I would say that post-Asgard, the Oddessy can survive 9-10 Ori beam hits. More if the Replicators augment them.Comment
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No one else finds that really odd, considering what's above it...?Originally posted by Lord You View Post
But anyway, it's never even implied that the bugs were upping the shields. And the Odyssey took faaaaaaaaaaaaar more than 9-10 hits in "Ark of Truth". It took at least 2 dozen straight.Click the banner or episode links to visit the virtual continuations of Stargate!Previous Episode: 11x03 "Shore Leave" | Previous Episode: 6x04 "Nightfall" | Now Airing: 3x06 "Eldest"The Continuing Stargate Wiki | Stargate: Avalon l The New "Ark of Truth" | Stargate: Universe Reviews | Banner designs by Alx
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Well, the shields probably did not fully recharge between battles.Comment
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