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    #1

    Stargate Continium Time Travel

    Just watched this show, it's great. I was thinking about some of the time travel ideas.

    My first question was, why at the end was he his own grandfather? If that was an altered timeline, then wouldn't it revert to the original timeline? The reality is, stopping Baal WAS the original timeline, it just worked out in the end that they stopped him. In other words, shooting up Baal as he walked through the Stargate was in the original Stargate timeline.

    Also it reminds me of Bill And Ted's Bogus Journey, where the bad guy wants to change the timeline and says, "time will tell", and the other guy responds, "time has told". In other words, if Baal had been successful in changing the timeline, then none of Stargate as we know it would have ever happened, what they think of as their original timeline would have been an alternate timeline and would not have ever happened if Baal had been successful.

    The one thing that I still don't get is a paradox they intentionally added. When Cameron Mitchell goes back to 1928, he goes on the boat and kills Baal. He then lives out the rest of his life, has a son, that son has a son. But his grandson is HIM. His grandson is destined to go back in time as him, and live out the rest of his life in 1928 to stop Baal. But how genetically, could his grandson be identical to him after two generations? This is the paradox. There are two Cameron Mitchells in one timeline, and somehow one of them gave birth to the other. Difficult to understand this one I think it is more of a paradox than anything.
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    #2
    Originally posted by shinysign View Post
    Just watched this show, it's great. I was thinking about some of the time travel ideas.

    My first question was, why at the end was he his own grandfather? If that was an altered timeline, then wouldn't it revert to the original timeline? The reality is, stopping Baal WAS the original timeline, it just worked out in the end that they stopped him. In other words, shooting up Baal as he walked through the Stargate was in the original Stargate timeline.

    Also it reminds me of Bill And Ted's Bogus Journey, where the bad guy wants to change the timeline and says, "time will tell", and the other guy responds, "time has told". In other words, if Baal had been successful in changing the timeline, then none of Stargate as we know it would have ever happened, what they think of as their original timeline would have been an alternate timeline and would not have ever happened if Baal had been successful.

    The one thing that I still don't get is a paradox they intentionally added. When Cameron Mitchell goes back to 1928, he goes on the boat and kills Baal. He then lives out the rest of his life, has a son, that son has a son. But his grandson is HIM. His grandson is destined to go back in time as him, and live out the rest of his life in 1928 to stop Baal. But how genetically, could his grandson be identical to him after two generations? This is the paradox. There are two Cameron Mitchells in one timeline, and somehow one of them gave birth to the other. Difficult to understand this one I think it is more of a paradox than anything.
    thats never stated in the movie, because remember, the picture was of him and his grandad. Mitchell probably went to some little corner of the world and let history pass him by and his grand father still had a son and a son which was mitchell, but mitchell is not his own grandfather.
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint... it happens to kinda look like the name 'Jeremy Bearimy' in cursive English.

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      #3
      Originally posted by stargatefan234 View Post
      thats never stated in the movie, because remember, the picture was of him and his grandad. Mitchell probably went to some little corner of the world and let history pass him by and his grand father still had a son and a son which was mitchell, but mitchell is not his own grandfather.
      That was my impression too. If he listens at all to Sam, he would know to keep things as unchanged as much as is humanly possible. Maybe he should have skipped the photo op
      sigpic "We do get paid for this, right?"

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        #4
        Interesting, the thing that I thought is they said that his grandfather was on the boat with the stargate and he died in the boat. So I thought that when he went back in time, he went into the navy, specifically to stop Baal, after all, he was a member of the crew on the ship, didn't they refer to him as a member of the crew? He couldn't have hid because he was on that U-boat ten years later. It probably took him years in the 1930's navy to get up to the rank where he could board the u-boat he wanted to go on. Keep in mind he was 10 years early, my guess is he went in to the us navy as soon as he possibly could to stop Baal.

        I think I see what you guys are saying though, you're saying that his grandfather was also on the boat, and he saved his grandfather then left. However, that picture of him and his granddad could actually be a picture of him and his alternate self. If he went back to 1928 then by the time he met his grandson he would look much older and look like the grandfather version of himself. I am not sure at this point, I would have to watch it again and watch these parts closely or something. But that would make more sense if he wasn't his own grandfather and was just a guy who joins the navy, saves earth and then lives out his life. Nice thing about going in the past instead of the future is he has no chance of being recognized by anyone.

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          #5
          I think you have completely missed the point. Watch continuum again.

          1) The old mitchell on the ship is in actuality Cameron's grandfather. The writers for some strange reason, decided to make him look like Cameron to ensure that the viewer was clear that he was one of Cameron's ancestors, without the discussion being had.

          2) SG1 (minus teal'c) were able to go through the stargate as the timeline reorganised itself. This protected them from the changes to the timeline (otherwise sg1 also would have vanished like Teal'c and the Tokra did.)

          Cameron is not his own grandfather so technically it is not the grandfather paradox.

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            #6
            Ok, you either haven't watched the movie, weren't paying much attention, or you have it confused with the Futurama episode "Roswell That Ends Well".

            2 things;

            1) Cam Mitchell from the present AND his grandfather were on the ship at the end. Not only were they in that picture together they are in a shot on the ship also.

            Therefore, Cam IS NOT his own Grandfather

            2) He stowed away on the ship, that's why one the crew asked who he was.
            Jedi_Master_Bra'tac, previously known as wako!


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              #7
              Originally posted by amforster View Post
              Cameron is not his own grandfather so technically it is not the grandfather paradox.
              The grandfather paradox, is not you being your own grandfather.

              The grandfather paradox is what happens if you go back in time and kill your grandfather before your father was born. Thus you can't be born and therefore can't have killed your own grandfather. Which means he doesn't die and you are alive to go back in time to kill him.
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                #8
                Ok I get the point, yes I did watch the movie, I didn't recognize the second mitchell with that hat and pointy beard, I thought that was just some guy pn the ship, I see now that is supposed to be his grandfather.

                Well it makes more sense, he went back in time, stowed himself on the submarine with a bunch of guns. Waited for the guy to go through, killed him, said hi to his grandfather, then the alternate timeline was restored.

                Though I liked the idea of a paradox of his being his own grandfather. A 'being your own grandfather paradox'.

                But... One more thing, if he killed Baal, then that means that he never had to go back in time to search for Baal, which means that he never killed Baal. Baal Paradox.
                Last edited by shinysign; 10 March 2009, 04:41 PM.

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                  #9
                  He isn't his own grandfather, I wonder if he told him the truth about it all though?

                  Also, he snuck on the ship. Notice that he even wore the same clothes to trick crew mates into thinking he was his grandfather.
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