My thoughts about Sam and Jack in the third movie (spec and spoilers)

[Aragon101]

Melora, I adore you. Awesome post, definitely green-worthy although my fridge is locked for now



Sorry mate, you won't convince me D/V "oozes sexual tension" and there's no way I'll rewatch PU again. I've seen it 2 times and each time found it to be nothing but a torture. Painful torture. The only decent bit in this ep is the first 30 seconds (Jack and Daniel walking down the corridor and arguing). Where you see sexual tension I see annoyance and one-sided flirting. I was cringing the whole time.

And once again I see the evolution of S/J vs D/V very differently than you. I see S/J "oozing sexual tension", to borrow your phrase. I see sparks flying when they first meet at the briefing room table. I see how they learn to work together, gain each other implicit trust and loyalty throughout season 1, become friends in season 2, start to realise there's something more than simple friendship between them in season 3, confront their feelings in season 4, distance themselves from each other in an attempt to cope in season 5, grow closer together in season 6, start to doubt their future together and therefore try to settle down with someone more available an season 7 and 8 and finally overcome all the obstacles and get together at the end of season 8. As you can see, I hardly view their post-season 4 ship as "dead"; all 8 seasons make sense for me ship-wise and tell one fluid, natural story.

And to be clear: shippers don't want Sam and Jack to get together in the third movie; we want the confirmation that they've been together since Threads, so your argument about time doesn't hold water for me.

One of my main problems with D/V, apart from the lack of chemistry, OOC behaviour and too much focus at the cost of the team is how fast it was. She teases him and flirts with him, he's always annoyed; eventually they progress to caring about each other (not in a romantic way IMO), because Vala really wants to change and become a better person and Daniel is really the right guy to help her. And then bam! she's all in tears because she loves him and can't loose him and bam! look he loves her too. I realise it's a matter of personal opinion/taste but for me there wasn't enough foundation and time given to them to find their relationship believable.

I should make myself clear, i don't actually like Daniel and Vala very much. Like i sait, it was pretty one-sided. I agree that it does feel OOC, but i think the ship itself was handled better than Sam Jack.

Lets go with your idea. 8 years... 8 years and none of them are adult enough to move on? Hell Jack was married and he's moved on, i can't bring myself to believe that. It goes beyond the realm of reality for me and into fairy tale. Which okay, that's fine, but at least give the shippers teir fairy tale ending instead of constant teasing and never a confirmation.

I don't like Sam/Jack, but there's nothing i can do about it. Hell i don't like ANY of the ships that have been pushed by TPTB. but i enjoy the show for other reasons despite the sourness left in my mouth from seeing stuff that doesn't make sense to me.

[Ashizuri]

But that's realistic. If they truly felt attraction, then it's not like they're going to spend 8 years dancing around one another like a pair of neutron stars, both too dense to get together or stay apart.

Realistic maybe (depending on the person's age because it always felt very playground and not at all how adults act to me), but completely unnecessary on a team-oriented show, which is my problem with D/V. Far too much focus on them in too small a time frame. I probably would have shipped the crap out of it had it been toned down. J/S didn't bother me in that aspect, which is why, though it does bother me on occassion, I don't have the knee-jerk reaction to it that I do D/V.

They so did

I'm not alone!!

Alas, precedent tells us otherwise.

I don't know, BW always mentions the team when he talks about SG-1 and the third film, always mentioning how it needs to be all four of them. And, if I'm recalling things correctly (which I might not be) none of the episodes that he penned alone who overly ship-heavy, at least not to me.

I'm keeping my optimism hat on.

[Petra]

Ignore any pro or romantic feelings. Just look at that scene in Möbius. How much of that scene is of RDA and AT on the dock? How much is Michael and Chris walking out from behind the building? How does five minutes of two characters and forty seconds of the other two equate to a team ending? Why shouldn't fans of all four characters get a satisfying conclusion? Why don't Michael and Chris get any lines? Why couldn't the four of them be lined up on chairs on the dock? What does Sam/Jack add to that scene that a Team ending, for all the fans, not just the Sam/Jack fans, wouldn't have?

We are talking in circles here. I already admitted that yes, it was S/J slanted but I still found it teamy. I can't change the way I see it. What else do you want me to say?

I want the last scene of the original SG1 in the next film to be all four main characters. I want them all to speak, to interact, to care about each other more than they are supposed to. All of them. I don't want two of the four to get any more screen time than the other two, I want my last memories of the team to be inclusive, not exclusive.
FF

Well, here we can agree. I'm all for the four of them together in the last scene and having that scene be about the team with teamy focus.

Is this the time to mention how I thought Jack/Fraiser had chemistry that was off the charts?

If I wasn't shipping S/J I would totally want Jack with Janet and Sam with Barret. Awesome chemistry in both cases.

Lets go with your idea. 8 years... 8 years and none of them are adult enough to move on? Hell Jack was married and he's moved on, i can't bring myself to believe that. It goes beyond the realm of reality for me and into fairy tale. Which okay, that's fine, but at least give the shippers teir fairy tale ending instead of constant teasing and never a confirmation.

You should check S/J Discussion Thread. The ship as shown on the show actually makes perfect sense and corresponds with psychological and emotional hang-ups both characters have which is discussed in great detail in the aforementioned thread. I believe for this place it would be too OT.

For the bolded part: hell, yes!!! Why do you think shippers are so frustrated and so hopeful about this movie?!

[Aragon101]

We are talking in circles here. I already admitted that yes, it was S/J slanted but I still found it teamy. I can't change the way I see it. What do you want me to say?



Well, here we can agree. I'm all for the four of them together in the last scene and having that scene be about the team with teamy focus.



If I wasn't shipping S/J I would totally want Jack to be with Janet and Sam with Barret. Awesome chemistry in both cases.



You should check S/J Discussion Thread. The ship as shown on tv actually makes perfect sense and corresponds with psychological and emotional hang-ups both characters have and this is discussed in great detail in the aforementioned thread. I believe for our thread it would be too OT.

For the bolded part: hell, yes! And why do you think shippers are so frustrated and so hopeful about this movie?!

I have read it and i don't agree. Like you said, Sam had great chemistry with Barret, yet what happened? the writers were so focused on Sam/Jack that they forgot that as a human being, we can love more than one person. What do you think would have happened if Sam and Barret got together instead of Pete, the culmination of most of what is wrong with men? DUN DUN DUN!!!!!

Like i said, fairy tale, but at least give the shippers their fairy tale ending and be done with it.

[Callista]

I think part of the passion here stems from this 3rd movie being seen as the last best hope for each fan to get exactly what they wanted throughout the whole series. Most of us suspect this is it for these characters, at least with a focus on them, right? (They may pop up from time to time on SGU or future projects, but this is probably it for good old SG-1 all together.) So, where during the series and the first couple of movies most of us can forgive or overlook or even not watch certain episodes or even entire seasons and focus on the hope that the next episode will focus on our favorite aspect/story line/character/pairing/whumping victim (oops. How'd that get in there?!?) and not on our least favorite, that's not true here. Perhaps many of us have a certain thing they wanted to see all along that never got resolved....S/J in a 'real' relationship being just one of many possibilities depending on the fan. Heck! How many people still want to see Furlings?! Unless this movie is as long as The Lord of the Rings, we're not all going to get what we're hoping for, even just a little glimpse of it to hold onto. Which is probably a good thing, because that would be a heckuva a convoluted story!

Seeing as how the last two movies were relatively short compared to a lot of movies now-adays (I think so it would fit neatly into a two-hour slot on TV), really showing any of those possibilities most likely means not being able to show a bunch of the other ones. Since I don't care for S/J ship (or romantic ship in general), I'd hate for there to be enough of it to cut out other things I would have liked better. As I said before, as long as it isn't too much, I don't have a problem with it. I'll still buy the movie.

It doesn't help that this particular subject was already such a big bone of contention. I suspect I'm not the only fan who really didn't care for the Tok'ra (or maybe I am), but I've never seen people quite so passionate about their feelings one way or the other on that subject. Honestly, though, if this movie did focus heavily on the Tok'ra I'd be just as unlikely to enjoy it as if it focused heavily on Sam and Jack.

[flynn1959]

Yes, she was talking about Siler.

See, I knew those two were an item! Well, those three - mustn't forget the wrench!!!1

[flynn1959]

Ok, if you don't see the chemistry and find them boring, that's a fair point and I can hardly argue about something so subjective. After all I don't see that much touted chemistry between Daniel and Vala, so I'm in no position to make comments. But throughout the series there were many events (I mentioned them a few posts ago) which indicated romantic feelings on part of Jack and Sam and you still didn't say what they are in your opinion if not romantic.



As for the bolded part, would you be so kind as to rephrase it? I'm not a native speaker and it sounds, probably because of my insufficient command of English, contradictory. I'm not sure if you meant you'd be "there" with those calling for the D/V ship or those who don't want it.

I saw those events, when I did see them, as team moments, as in one member of the teams feelings towards another.

I meant that I would be there as in - not wanting it shown in the movie. I feel that ship belongs in fan fiction. Sorry about that, English is a tricky language even for those of us who are native speakers. LOL.

[ShipperWriter]

Sam is so turned off by men after being married to McKay, he thinks she's switched teams! (that in itself makes the cynic in me believe that the universe will not let Sam truly appreciate any man but Jack O'Neill)

Ha ha!!! I totally forgot about that!!!

And amen on that last part!

[Aragon101]

Ha ha!!! I totally forgot about that!!!

And amen on that last part!

Don't get me wrong, i don't like Jack/Sam, neither do i really like Sam/McKay, but i could see Sam/McKay more than i see Jack/Sam working. The fact is, logic says that Jack died in "The Road Not Taken" when they abandoned Antarctica, and Sam ended up with McKay as a "coping" thing because of course Sam can't live without Jack

Eugh, i find that very sketchy and weak for Sam's character.

Then of course there's the "lesbian" joke which basically tells me "Oh! Jack is the ONLY man for Sam! If she can't have Jack, then NO MAN is good enough for her!"

It's just more evidence IMO that the ship is sort of like doomsday. It's going to happen whether anyone wants it or not, and teh day it does, there will be a massive conflagration of all that is ordered in teh world. I honestly think that the day S/J is confirmed on TV, George Carlin's little speech here will take place

I for one look forward to the Uncle Daves

[chrono trigger]

i want them to get together in this film as jack/sam is one of three ships i have supported for a long time in the stargate franchise and im fed up of not getting what i want regarding the relationships in stargate

[Frostfox]

i want them to get together in this film as jack/sam is one of three ships i have supported for a long time in the stargate franchise and im fed up of not getting what i want regarding the relationships in stargate

I don't want them to get together in this film as it's a tired, clichéd old storyline which hasn't been a part of SG1 since RDA left in 2005.
If the film does get made, it's unlikely to see the light of day until 2011 or 2012, with post production. Do we know if the Atlantis film is going into production before the SG1 film? That could push it back even further. Even though I don't watch Atllantis, they still had dangling plot threads that need tying up, unlike SG1 where the important plot threads are all complete, there seems more storytelling potential left in Atlantis than SG1.

FF

[siles]

I don't want them to get together in this film as it's a tired, clichéd old storyline which hasn't been a part of SG1 since RDA left in 2005.
If the film does get made, it's unlikely to see the light of day until 2011 or 2012, with post production. Do we know if the Atlantis film is going into production before the SG1 film? That could push it back even further. Even though I don't watch Atllantis, they still had dangling plot threads that need tying up, unlike SG1 where the important plot threads are all complete, there seems more storytelling potential left in Atlantis than SG1.

FF

Actually, most shippers don't want to see SAm and Jack get together in this movie! They want to see confirmation Sam and Jack have got together at the beginning of season 9

[Aragon101]

Actually, most shippers don't want to see SAm and Jack get together in this movie! They want to see confirmation Sam and Jack have got together at the beginning of season 9

just throwing this out there, but in that Trio Deleted scene, Sam hints that she's waiting for hre "guy" in washington to retire. In fact she makes it pretty clear, to the point where "He's going to retire soon so who knows?' (verbatim)

What did Carter mean by that? Tells me that because they're so far apart, they haven't actually started a relationship seeing as they're both still active on the Air Force roster, they're working far away from each other *about 3 million lightyears*, and they don't want to have to worry about each other in that sense while that's going on. Seems prefectly logical to me. Then again the consistency of Sam/Jack is about the same as a cheap protein powder, you have to process the hell out of it in a blender to get it to work right.

[Frostfox]

just throwing this out there, but in that Trio Deleted scene, Sam hints that she's waiting for hre "guy" in washington to retire. In fact she makes it pretty clear, to the point where "He's going to retire soon so who knows?' (verbatim)

What did Carter mean by that? Tells me that because they're so far apart, they haven't actually started a relationship seeing as they're both still active on the Air Force roster, they're working far away from each other *about 3 million lightyears*, and they don't want to have to worry about each other in that sense while that's going on. Seems prefectly logical to me. Then again the consistency of Sam/Jack is about the same as a cheap protein powder, you have to process the hell out of it in a blender to get it to work right.

Laughs, you have a fabulous analogy going there!

Scenes not shown on screen are not canon, no matter how much fans might wish so, but didn't she say that the mysterious man in Washington wasn't much older than her? Jack at the most conservative estimate is at least a decade, more like 15-17 years older than her, not anywhere near her age.

FF

[Aragon101]

Laughs, you have a fabulous analogy going there!

Scenes not shown on screen are not canon, no matter how much fans might wish so, but didn't she say that the mysterious man in Washington wasn't much older than her? Jack at the most conservative estimate is at least a decade, more like 15-17 years older than her, not anywhere near her age.

FF

Having my S4 DVD in the player right now...

Keller: Thought so. Spill it.
Carter: Well it's complicated
Keller: Show me a relationship that isn't.
Carter; Yeah well... he's in washington, i'm here.
Keller: Long distance relationship huh?
Carter: Yeah... he's going to retire soon so who knows?
Keller: Really? Retire? So Older man huh?
Carter: He's... not that much older...

it's pretty clear from Carter's intonation that she's on the defensive. which is why i think if they do eventually make the third movie, if they do add a Sam/Jack confirmation scene, it'll be them GETTING together, not already being together since season 9 (or at least till Trio)