My thoughts about Sam and Jack in the third movie (spec and spoilers)

[Petra]

Actually, one of my main reasons for not likeing Sam and Jack is the fact that, imo, they have zero chemistry. And I'm sorry if I'm mistaken but I don't recall any slasher calling for confirmation, except as a joke. That is the point you seem to have missed, speaking just for myself I don't give a toss which of the characters people chose to ship - or which of the sexes they chose to put together, live and let live I say. Calling for on-screen confirmation of those ships - now that is what I have a problem with.

Wait a second: if you have reasons for not liking S/J then you must have noticed them at some point. You can't dislike something you are not aware of. So...why all those posts denying their existance? {mod snip}

Please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you a bit of D/V shipper? Who has a problem with seeing on-screen confirmation of any ships? So of course you loudly protested against D/V ship resolution in Unending? Of course you are campaigning against any inclusion of D/V in any future incarnations of Stargate, right? We can assume that if the fourth movie (if it ever gets done) will be Daniel-centred and D/V shippers will want some shippy scenes you will be fighting them and telling them with passion equal to the one you are showing now how wrong it is for them to want it..Right?

[leiasky]

Probably, for some, after ten years of being called names, insulted, mocked, belittled, labeled as 'hormonal girls', it'd feel good to have a bit of what could be defined as vindication.

I can't and won't speak for shippers as a whole, but the passion that's been displayed in this very thread speaks to why some would love to have vindication of a sort. Many have spent ten years being treated like idiots and lesser forms of life because they DARE to like a pairing that others don't like, that others have defined as stupid, idiotic, unproper, unreal, a fantasy, etc. so I can imagine that it'd feel good to say 'see, we're not stupid hormonal girls, there IS something there, now leave us alone'

The anti-ship folks, with their very passion against the pairing, have actually just fueled the fire and encouraged it. Because the more a person is told they're wrong, the more they get set in the belief that they're right.

In this thread, just the fact that some that don't want it will debate against it with much passion and dedication for days/weeks, does nothing more than cement the desire that shippers may have to get some sort of resolution. What may have been a throwaway line that some won't even notice will be something sought after, not necessarily because 'every shipper wants it' but because so many that don't want it have made it such an issue that it dwarfs other things.

Basically, the more that hate the pairing express how wrong and horrible it is, the more those that want it will want it.

I could ask the same question.....Why do some that don't like it take such incredible offense and uproar about something that may be nothing more than a throwaway line? Why is what could be a 30 second scene out of 90 minutes, such a massive issue? Why must the wishes that line up with an anti-ship view be deemed more important and more desirable than the wishes of anyone else?

Beautiful. I couldn't green you. Apparently, I must spread the love a little more. :/

There will be unequivocal confirmation in the 3rd movie and those who don't want to see it can just do what they've always done - ignore or deny its there.

[Ashizuri]

Confirmation of Sam Jack ship will not end the debate, it will not make those people who do not see Sam and Jack go away, far from it. If anything some people will be even more determined to express their opinion that such a relationship is wrong, for many different reasons, not least of which are the military regulations.

But it will end the are they/aren't they debate, and then shippers can go to their threads and anti's can go to their threads and everyone can enjoy the sam/jack or enjoy complaining about the sam/jack.

As to the regs, if you are a fan of season 9/10 and try and use regs as a reason why Jack and Sam can't be together I laugh a little bit on the inside, because really? Really? Nepotism on base, "co-leaders" of the flagship team, verbal sexual assault of a senator with no punishment, general's on vacation with their subordinates, team-members stealing from the desks of their allies....

EDIT: I don't meant to sound rude there, so sorry if I did, but I just can't understand why the rules and regs only get brought up in reference to Jack and Sam and it drives me up a wall.

I could ask the same question.....Why do some that don't like it take such incredible offense and uproar about something that may be nothing more than a throwaway line? Why is what could be a 30 second scene out of 90 minutes, such a massive issue? Why must the wishes that line up with an anti-ship view be deemed more important and more desirable than the wishes of anyone else?

Well, I can understand a slight hesitancy considering the state of ship in the last few seasons (I'm considering season 7/8 in that because that's actually where my problems started), but I'd like to know a little bit more before I assume it will ruin the movie. If it's something as small as Sam answering to Colonel O'Neill (that actually would make me smile) then it can be glossed over with little fuss. Shippers can have their squee and anti's can ignore one line in the film.

Hopefully BW can find a happy medium and please his entire audience.

So of course you loudly protested against D/V ship resolution in Unending? Of course you are campaigning against any inclusion of D/V in any future incarnations of Stargate, right? We can assume that if the fourth movie (if it ever gets done) will be Daniel-centred and D/V shippers will want some shippy scenes you will be fighting them and telling them with passion equal to the one you are showing now how wrong it is for them to want it..Right?

Honestly, D/V is just as disruptive of the team feeling, if not more, than J/S to me.

But it seems to me that shipping and being anti-ship is fairly hypocritical in nature. And I'm not saying that as an insult. Jack/Sam fans who would argue against D/V being officially made canon would love to see J/S confirmation and D/V fans who rail against Jack/Sam would love to see D/V made official. *shrugs* Nature of the beast I suppose.

[leiasky]

But it will end the are they/aren't they debate, and then shippers can go to their threads and anti's can go to their threads and everyone can enjoy the sam/jack or enjoy complaining about the sam/jack.

As to the regs, if you are a fan of season 9/10 and try and use regs as a reason why Jack and Sam can't be together I laugh a little bit on the inside, because really? Really? Nepotism on base, "co-leaders" of the flagship team, verbal sexual assault of a senator with no punishment, general's on vacation with their subordinates, team-members stealing from the desks of their allies....

Seriously, why do rules and regs only matter if you're Sam or Jack.



Well, I can understand a slight hesitancy considering the state of ship in the last few seasons (I'm considering season 7/8 in that because that's actually where my problems started), but I'd like to know a little bit more before I assume it will ruin the movie. If it's something as small as Sam answering to Colonel O'Neill (that actually would make me smile) then it can be glossed over with little fuss. Shippers can have their squee and anti's can ignore one line in the film.

Hopefully BW can find a happy medium and please his entire audience.



Honestly, D/V is just as disruptive of the team feeling, if not more, than J/S to me.

But it seems to me that shipping and being anti-ship is fairly hypocritical in nature. And I'm not saying that as an insult. Jack/Sam fans who would argue against D/V being made officially made canon would love to see J/S confirmation and D/V fans who rail against Jack/Sam would love to see D/V made official. *shrugs* Nature of the beast I suppose.

Just beautiful and well said. Apparently, I can't green you either. Feh. I'm tired of spreading the love when only a few people deserve the green!

[Targust]

Well, that's true. But if there is 100% confirmation in the movie (either way) and the other side still says "not canon, you're wrong!!!" well, that would just make them look silly.



I don't get it either. I don't ship Jack/Sam, I enjoy them at times and dislike it at others, but I don't want to rain on anyone's shipper parade. Nor do I think a small romantic scene will ruin the movie completely. If it's done right, it can only enhance my enjoyment of it.

I consider myself very lucky to have my "middle of the road" opinions on Sam/Jack.

Its just not that serious, IMHO. Ship or not, that's not what's going to make or break this movie. I am hoping for good writing and a solid plot.

[Petra]

Honestly, D/V is just as disruptive of the team feeling, if not more, than J/S to me.

But it seems to me that shipping and being anti-ship is fairly hypocritical in nature. And I'm not saying that as an insult. Jack/Sam fans who would argue against D/V being made officially made canon would love to see J/S confirmation and D/V fans who rail against Jack/Sam would love to see D/V made official. *shrugs* Nature of the beast I suppose.

I'd like to clarify something because I can see how my last post can be misunderstood. I don't have anything against D/V ship resolution or it being shown. I don't like D/V and honestly I can't see it either but I'm far from raining on D/V shippers parade. If it's reasonably small I'll stand it, in the worst case there's a ff button Furthermore, if you take a look at the D/V ship thread, around the time of Unending a lot of S/J shippers came to congratulate fellow shippers their happiness and a lot of D/V shippers took their time to express their sadness at the lack of S/J confirmation. So it's not like we can't stand each other.

Having said that I don't think that being pro-one pairing and anti-another pairing is hypocritical. After all we are talking about different characters forming different relationships which affect the show differently. You can like S/J dynamic but find D/V unbelievable for all sorts of reasons (and the other way around) and that's ok. What I do find hypocritical is claiming that all the relationships are equal so they all must be shown or alternatively none of them can be shown except this one particular couple which I happen to ship and which is equal-er because of this and deserves more.

Honestly, if there is a scene in the movie showing Sam with Jack and, say, Teal'c with Ishta at Jack's cabin and Daniel calling that he'll be late because Vala got sick I'll still be happy.

[Callista]

As an anti who has mellowed on that point over the past year or so (not having any new fodder for my cannons has made my cannons a bit rusty I guess) I wouldn't mind if there was a little 'throw-away line' showing that they are together. Personally I don't really like the idea of Sam answering to Col. O'Neill, but that's just because I don't think she'd change her name if they got married. I don't really care about the regulations. I don't think the age difference is such a big deal. I don't see the 'chemistry' but in real life I don't see too many couples oozing 'chemistry' anyway, so that doesn't mean to me they aren't right for each other...just that I don't care to watch love scenes between them, but I can always look away for a minute.

The only thing that would make me really not like to see Sam/Jack confirmation in the third movie is if it took away from the friendship relationships of the whole team (in whatever combination that may be, depending on who is actually in it). That's really the reason I didn't like it in the series, because there are a few episodes where I felt that happened. I love, love, love strong friendships in my entertainment. That's what draws me to shows I think more than anything else. SG-1 had that in spades because it wasn't just a 'buddy show' with two people in a strong friendship, it was a whole team of people.

So, as long as whatever type of confirmation doesn't relegate the remaining members of the team to 'supporting' status, I can live with it. Ending the whole movie on just Sam and Jack would definitely do that. Starting it that way could come rather close but maybe it'd be OK. Having one of the couple missing or in danger and then Teal'c and Daniel spend the whole time trying to make the other partner feel better while not having as much emphasis on their own feelings for their missing friend would do it to the point of ruining the enjoyment for me. It just depends on the amount of time spent on it and the emphasis placed on it in comparison to the emphasis placed on the mutual friendships and bonds of the whole group.

[Ashizuri]

Its just not that serious, IMHO. Ship or not, that's not what's going to make or break this movie. I am hoping for good writing and a solid plot.

Oh I completely agree. Give me a good teamy movie with all the characters in equal standing and I will be a very happy girl.

Having said that I don't think that being pro-one pairing and anti-another pairing is hypocritical. After all we are talking about different characters forming different relationships which affect the show differently. You can like S/J dynamic but find D/V unbelievable for all sorts of reasons (and the other way around) and that's ok. What I do find hypocritical is claiming that all the relationships are equal so they all must be shown or alternatively none of them can be shown except this one particular couple which I happen to ship and which is equal-er because of this and deserves more.

Now reading yours I can see how mine might have been misunderstood as well.

I certainly didn't mean liking one and not the other was bad, or in anyway hypocritical, because you like what you like and you can't control that. Sadly, I missed all this nice shipper business happening around Unending (I had my head in the sand at that point), but that's fabulous to hear.

I only meant that, from my experience, I've seen shippers on one side arguing against the exact same things they'd want for their ship if the positions were reversed. It's the equal but not equal feeling that grates on me, like Sam/Jack being held up to regs while other pairings aren't.

[leiasky]

As an anti who has mellowed on that point over the past year or so (not having any new fodder for my cannons has made my cannons a bit rusty I guess) I wouldn't mind if there was a little 'throw-away line' showing that they are together. Personally I don't really like the idea of Sam answering to Col. O'Neill, but that's just because I don't think she'd change her name if they got married. I don't really care about the regulations. I don't think the age difference is such a big deal. I don't see the 'chemistry' but in real life I don't see too many couples oozing 'chemistry' anyway, so that doesn't mean to me they aren't right for each other...just that I don't care to watch love scenes between them, but I can always look away for a minute.

The only thing that would make me really not like to see Sam/Jack confirmation in the third movie is if it took away from the friendship relationships of the whole team (in whatever combination that may be, depending on who is actually in it). That's really the reason I didn't like it in the series, because there are a few episodes where I felt that happened. I love, love, love strong friendships in my entertainment. That's what draws me to shows I think more than anything else. SG-1 had that in spades because it wasn't just a 'buddy show' with two people in a strong friendship, it was a whole team of people.

So, as long as whatever type of confirmation doesn't relegate the remaining members of the team to 'supporting' status, I can live with it. Ending the whole movie on just Sam and Jack would definitely do that. Starting it that way could come rather close but maybe it'd be OK. Having one of the couple missing or in danger and then Teal'c and Daniel spend the whole time trying to make the other partner feel better while not having as much emphasis on their own feelings for their missing friend would do it to the point of ruining the enjoyment for me. It just depends on the amount of time spent on it and the emphasis placed on it in comparison to the emphasis placed on the mutual friendships and bonds of the whole group.

That was wonderfully and non-confrontationally said. Thank you. And I could green you, too!

[Skydiver]

Sam and Jack could be IN the movie....just don't make it AS the movie.

and I don't think these guys will. They don't seem to want it, the actors don't seem to want it. I don't see it happening in the 'worst case scenario' of it being the 'sam and jack love fest and yeah, who are those other two guys??????'

[Frostfox]

As an anti who has mellowed on that point over the past year or so (not having any new fodder for my cannons has made my cannons a bit rusty I guess) I wouldn't mind if there was a little 'throw-away line' showing that they are together. Personally I don't really like the idea of Sam answering to Col. O'Neill, but that's just because I don't think she'd change her name if they got married. I don't really care about the regulations. I don't think the age difference is such a big deal. I don't see the 'chemistry' but in real life I don't see too many couples oozing 'chemistry' anyway, so that doesn't mean to me they aren't right for each other...just that I don't care to watch love scenes between them, but I can always look away for a minute.

The only thing that would make me really not like to see Sam/Jack confirmation in the third movie is if it took away from the friendship relationships of the whole team (in whatever combination that may be, depending on who is actually in it). That's really the reason I didn't like it in the series, because there are a few episodes where I felt that happened. I love, love, love strong friendships in my entertainment. That's what draws me to shows I think more than anything else. SG-1 had that in spades because it wasn't just a 'buddy show' with two people in a strong friendship, it was a whole team of people.

So, as long as whatever type of confirmation doesn't relegate the remaining members of the team to 'supporting' status, I can live with it. Ending the whole movie on just Sam and Jack would definitely do that. Starting it that way could come rather close but maybe it'd be OK. Having one of the couple missing or in danger and then Teal'c and Daniel spend the whole time trying to make the other partner feel better while not having as much emphasis on their own feelings for their missing friend would do it to the point of ruining the enjoyment for me. It just depends on the amount of time spent on it and the emphasis placed on it in comparison to the emphasis placed on the mutual friendships and bonds of the whole group.

Re the bolded, oh yeah.
And I'd thank them not to make it almost all Sam/Jack either.

Remember the end of Möbius? Jack's last scene as a regular on SG1 is all about our darling lovebirds 'fishing'.
Oh look, right at the end, just before the credits, it's those pesky other two characters, let's shove them in. They don't get any script or close ups but the scene is really all about our cosy couple, not about the team we cared about for eight years, isn't it.
As you can tell, I was underwhelmed by the end of Möbius

Nope, I have no faith that they won't ruin the third film in the same way.

FF

[Ashizuri]

Oh look, right at the end, just before the credits, it's those pesky other two characters, let's shove them in.

I agree. Moebius was fun at times (oh Daniel, you make me so hot but true... ), but it shouldn't have ended the way it did with the focus on Jack and Sam. I feel the same about Unending. The whole episode seemed far to heavy on D/V for me and then the end was like "oooh look at those other people in the show."

But both of those happened when Coop was in charge, and I have a little more faith in BW to not ruin things.

[Frostfox]

I agree. Moebius was fun at times (oh Daniel, you make me so hot but true... ), but it shouldn't have ended the way it did with the focus on Jack and Sam. I feel the same about Unending. The whole episode seemed far to heavy on D/V for me and then the end was like "oooh look at those other people in the show."

But both of those happened when Coop was in charge, and I have a little more faith in BW to not ruin things.

I loved geeky Daniel and Sam, MS and AT are so much fun.
Agreed about the D/V focus in Unending, I wasn't impressed with that either.

FF

[flynn1959]

Wait a second: if you have reasons for not liking S/J then you must have noticed them at some point. You can't dislike something you are not aware of. So...why all those posts denying their existance? {mod snip}

Please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you a bit of D/V shipper? Who has a problem with seeing on-screen confirmation of any ships? So of course you loudly protested against D/V ship resolution in Unending? Of course you are campaigning against any inclusion of D/V in any future incarnations of Stargate, right? We can assume that if the fourth movie (if it ever gets done) will be Daniel-centred and D/V shippers will want some shippy scenes you will be fighting them and telling them with passion equal to the one you are showing now how wrong it is for them to want it..Right?

Of course I have noticed the characters, I'm not blind, I just don't like the two of them in scenes together. They have zero chemistry and quite frankly I find them boring. What I have never noticed is a relationship of a romantic/sexual nature between them. And for me if a movie or a series links two characters together in that way I need to see some chemistry between them to find it a) believable and b) enjoyable.

Daniel and Vala are another issue and some would say they have already had a canon confirmation, after all, they did get together, not in an AU either and as Teal'c still remembers that relationship I think it would be hard to ignore or deny the ship. If I heard any D/V shippers calling for further confirmation in the movie or for it to include a romantic scene between them or to be D/V heavy you bet your boots I'd be there. IMO ship of any kind between any of the characters has no place in the movie, it belongs in ff.

[Petra]

Re the bolded, oh yeah.
And I'd thank them not to make it almost all Sam/Jack either.

Remember the end of Möbius? Jack's last scene as a regular on SG1 is all about our darling lovebirds 'fishing'.
Oh look, right at the end, just before the credits, it's those pesky other two characters, let's shove them in. They don't get any script or close ups but the scene is really all about our cosy couple, not about the team we cared about for eight years, isn't it.
As you can tell, I was underwhelmed by the end of Möbius

Nope, I have no faith that they won't ruin the third film in the same way.

FF

Well, just to clear this negativity I must say that both as a shipper and a team fan I loved how Moebius/Threads ended. Yes, it had a Jack/Sam focus but it also included the team (what a shame Jonas wasn't with them though) and it fulfilled the wish of many SG-1 fans: the whole team together, fishing, at Jack's cabin. I'd be happy if the third movie ended in a similar way, although I very much doubt it will happen again, so don't worry.

And is it really about the ship or the fact that focus wasn't on one's favourite character? I mean no offence to anyone but I've seen fans who demand team focus whenever there's a mention of S/J being perfectly ok with, or even demanding, J/D focus in the last scene. (not in a slashy way) So how much of the problem with the ending is really S/J ship and how much not seeing one's favourite characters in their stead?