Crusade (919)

[warmbeachbrat]

esop524, to go off topic for a bit. TWWW from FS was so much better. We didn't watch Aeryn sit in a chair while the rest of the crew watched her tell her story. It was intertwined into what else was going on in the ep, and there were emotional repercussions with other characters who were involved in the learning of the story. In this case, the SG-1 team wasn't involved in Vala's story at all. THey just sat there and listened. It was such a static, unemotional setup that I almost wish we couldn't just spent the time with Vala on the planet without having to listen to her tell the story and explain everything so much.

A previous post mentioned that SG-1 wasn't involved emotionally with Vala's story, but I wonder if that's because it was Daniel that they were seeing tell the story. If they were actually seeing Vala, it might have been a little different.

I also wonder how much of an uproar would have ensued if the show had been only Vala on the planet with just a little bit of SGC at the beginning and end of the episode. Something tells me that even if it made for a better episode, a lot of people would not be happy that they didn't get to see more of SG-1.

[Tracker]

A previous post mentioned that SG-1 wasn't involved emotionally with Vala's story, but I wonder if that's because it was Daniel that they were seeing tell the story. If they were actually seeing Vala, it might have been a little different.

Not to mention, that was a heck of a bomb she dropped on them. Think about it 1)They find out that their cobbled together comm device works, 2) Vala is alive, 3)She's pregnant sans partner, 4)Married?!? 4)The Ori have a freakin' armada, and 5)They're on the way, which means 6)There's a super-gate out there somewhere.

If it was me, I'd be a bit shell shocked from all that.

[LaCroix]

I was about to say it was a fair episode, until I remembered Mitchell's line about Arthur.

Legend states that Uther Pendragon, with the help of Merlin, used a glamour
of sorts on Igraine, wife of Gorlois of Cornwall. Bedded her and nine months later Arthur was born.

Let's just say someone forgot to do his homework. And leave it at that.

I also have to say something about the Priors. The're begining to resemble the Harbringers of The First Evil on Buffy. With scarred eyes and pale flesh.
At first glance I thought Tomin was being played by Nathan Fillion, but another look I saw it wasn't.

Loved Tealcs line about Darth Vader.

The weapon used by Tomin kinda looked like one used by the slayers of Krull.
Which may explain the Darth Vader line since Liam Neeson play a role in that movie.

Vala was a little toned down and didn't bother me too much. Missed Daniel though.

Next weeks episode. Maybe, maybe not. I just might re-read That Hideous Strength by C.S. Lewis. Who knows.

[esoap524]

esop524, to go off topic for a bit. TWWW from FS was so much better. We didn't watch Aeryn sit in a chair while the rest of the crew watched her tell her story. It was intertwined into what else was going on in the ep, and there were emotional repercussions with other characters who were involved in the learning of the story. In this case, the SG-1 team wasn't involved in Vala's story at all. THey just sat there and listened. It was such a static, unemotional setup that I almost wish we couldn't just spent the time with Vala on the planet without having to listen to her tell the story and explain everything so much.

No argument from me on TWWW being better. It's one of my all time favorites and Claudia absolutely rocks.

But it still takes a similar way of telling a story--one POV character, relating the past and how it's going to connect to the current situation. In SG1, this exposition drives the plot forward. In TWWW, it's actually something that drives the character arcs.It goes back to my opinion about the difference between SG1 and Farscape: SG1 is more plot driven, Farscape is more character driven.

But, then again, to be fair to SG1, the relationships between the "team" at the time of TWWW were deeper anyway. Those characters had a lot more emotional investment in the two characters (Aeryn and Pilot) who were telling the story. Therefore, their emotional reactions were more heightened because they had more at stake. What they heard from Aeryn in that episode only brought back the old wounds of "you can't trust a peacekeeper" to a crew that had been imprisoned by her kind.

In this case, the SG1 team doesn't care a whole lot for Vala; other than the big "she saved their asses" moment in Beachhead, she didn't do them a whole lot of favors and they saw her more as a nuisance than a team member. Plus, anything she says would be taken with a grain of salt given that most of what she says is a lie. So the emotional investment on the part of those listeners is much less than those of the folks on Moya.

I agree, more time on the planet without the v/o would have been preferable. I thought the guy who played her husband was excellent and I found myself wanting to know more about what happens to him and to Vala when the episode ended with the SG1 having to face down the new threat. I was all--but, but...what about Tomin and Vala?

Of course, I am a soapy kinda gal.

A previous post mentioned that SG-1 wasn't involved emotionally with Vala's story, but I wonder if that's because it was Daniel that they were seeing tell the story. If they were actually seeing Vala, it might have been a little different.

I also wonder how much of an uproar would have ensued if the show had been only Vala on the planet with just a little bit of SGC at the beginning and end of the episode. Something tells me that even if it made for a better episode, a lot of people would not be happy that they didn't get to see more of SG-1.

I've stated my case for the lack of "emotional involvement." I never thought of how seeing this through Daniel would make a difference to the listeners. Very good point! Even so, I felt that their interest and belief increased as the story went on, which is probably one of the reasons my interest piqued as well. I have to admit that at about the 30 minute mark, I sort of had my fingers pushed against my lips and felt very tense over the whole thing. I really was just tuning in to see Claudia Black, and not necessarily expecting to be very interested in the whole thing.

Woo-boy, uproar is an understatement. Have people ALWAYS counted how many minutes each actor/character spends on screen, or the number of lines each team member gets to say, or is this a new thing with the arrival of new cast?

I thought for what the story was trying to accomplish, it worked. It was a set up, yes, and I thought it was vastly more intriguing than last week's episode, which was also a set up, even though it had less action.

[Fatewarns]

Tomin is a great character the actor who plays him was great.

Tim Guinee(the guy who plays Tomin) play a killer that was kind yet brutal, in Law & Order episode Hubris his character was Mark Landry/Richard Morriston. He was great in it.

Tomin I feel a pity for him, but at the same time I see that he would do anything for the Ori.

yeah I agree the Ori staff weapon is basically the same to Jaffa staff weapon, but the Ori staff weapon has a pitcher on the tip which I think would be useful for close hand to hand fighting.

[valaCB]

excellent episode and Claudia was gorgeous in this episode!

and i find a blooper When Vala and her husband talking in front of the mirror, they talk together in some point, so we can see the result, Claudia and Tim Guinee start to laugh..heheh

BTW- the 'drum solo' was funny

[Jonzey]

Wow, actually a lot of praise for this ep, even from some antis!

For me, it was a little slow. I was expecting the Ori ships to get into our galaxy in the ep. But I still enjoyed it. It certainly set things up for next week, which should be awesome. But I'm guessing Vala's gonna come through to our galaxy on one of the Ori ships or something.

By the way, this is kinda off topic and probably sounds really whiney, but can we not talk about the preview for next week in this thread (or at least spoiler it). I avoid all spoilers now and it really bugs me when people start talking about next week's ep when I was so careful to avoid watching the preview myself (sometimes it can give more away than I'd like). Or other things which people just take for granted, like the new Russian ship people keep talking about.

[NotAscended]

Responding to something a few pages back, since I kept getting kicked off the board.

Well, I gotta say that I haven't been this excited to see the season finale since season 7. I thought this was an awesome precursor to the final epi. As for Vala, sometimes she drove me crazy at the beginning of this season, but I thought she was excellent in this epi. Not overly sarcastic as we're use to seeing her, though I think that fits given she's "undercover" in enemy hands. Sarcasm wouldn't be wise. I'm glad they focused on her story in this given she is in enemy territory. We've known she'd be coming back so the big question would be what's been going on with her there. I think they answered that well enough. Not to mention that the story wasn't just about her, but about the people there and what the Ori were up to and just how willing they were to murder people for the sake of their "Gods".

I was surprisingly engrossed throughout this episode and really liked that we get a more personal connection to the Ori followers. Although we got to see a little bit of that in the earlier episode in the Ori galaxy, this time we got to see that it's actually very nice, well-meaning people who are being turned into soldiers by following their blind faith. I found Tomin's character really appealing and am sad that it are ships full of people like him that we will be forced to destroy in the future. I never felt so bad about the Jaffa under the service of their gods, because they were trained warriors. These folks are just regular townspeople, conscripted to serve the Ori. Very sad.

Very clever of her to come up with the excuse she did while keeping an innocent expression at the end with her husband aiming a weapon at her. The beginning was classic Vala, not to mention Daniel's expression in the mirror in front of Mitch. Couldn't stop laughing at that. Very looking forward to the finale and no doubt next season. 5/5

This episode really solidified Vala's character and makes me look forward to what she can bring to S10. Such composure while at the business end of a weapon! Goodness knows, she can talk her way out of most anything.

Also, was very amused by the little bit between Carter and Vala, when Carter's trying to tell her she has chocolate on her nose. Kind of a nice little bonding moment ... because that's what women do for each other!

[Colonel Sharp]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
WHY?!?! Why the !@#$!@ did we give the russians a space ship?!!?

They couldn't have gotten the gate if they even tried!

They just had to pick one of the major three important things on the DO NOT GIVE RUSSIANS list:
1. The stargate.
2. Control of Atlantis.
3. A giant spaceship.

[Skydiver]

I was about to say it was a fair episode, until I remembered Mitchell's line about Arthur.

Legend states that Uther Pendragon, with the help of Merlin, used a glamour
of sorts on Igraine, wife of Gorlois of Cornwall. Bedded her and nine months later Arthur was born.

Let's just say someone forgot to do his homework. And leave it at that.

yeah. not only is it incredibly wrong, there was no 'conception without copulation', it was basically the two individuals being tricked into seeing someone else and the baby was conceived the old fashioned way

and it was a bit odd, after all this uber religion overtones of the ori and the tie ins to present day issues that cam comes up with the arthur angle instead of the one world wide known 'c w/o c' that is jesus. like what, they started out with all this religious stuff and then don't wanna take that big step? shoulda thought of htat before they made the ori their main villians

it made the whole arthur angle very much crammed in there. you know, to heck with research and how things 'really' happened, we need to drag arthur in there somehow

sloppy and another glaring plot hole. which ranks right up there with earth never thinking to go snag an extra gate to give the russians thiers back.

sloppy writing

[PG15]

4.99/5, only because I know Camelot will be better.

Vala was great! There is still a bit of old Vala in her (which I loved), and now we have a more caring Vala, which is awesome as well! Best of both worlds!

I really felt for her when she described Tomin as the kindest person she's met, and seeing that sense of hopelessness, since she knew that she can't stop him.

The ships DO looks like toilets...hmm...it's strange really, you'd think the producers would've realized that. Weird.

Lastly, I gotta say this: ROBERT COOPER, YOU DID AN AWESOME JOB! That was very cinematic, especially with all the sweeping and moving shots, and yet it maintained the regular Stargate movements instead of moving too far off into, say BSG land or something. The music was great as well.

All in all, a great episode. Bring on Camelot!

[RealmOfX]

Well, that was a slow episode. Informative but slow. It was an OK ep but it's going on my don't watch again list, not because it was bad just that one viewing is all I'll ever need. Nothing in here I'd class as rewatchable.

What I liked
- loved the quick breakfast scene with Cam, Dan & Sam. Why the handheld camera here though? Also used in final scene. RCC experimenting?
- Kawoosh!!! LOL is this now a technical term?
- Subdued but funny Vala I like! She has promise (I'm not holding my breath though)
- Subdued Mitchell was much better
- Cool kneading technique Vala has!
- Yay Teal'c Darth Vader ROFLMAO
- Good scenes between Chekov and Landry, yes I'm definitely liking Landry more as the season progresses
- Cool demon face in the fire
- Good setup for the finale BUT did I mention it was Slow!
- Mini pitchforks!! but will SGC flak jackets with the ceramic inserts protect SG teams against them?


Nothing for the Didn't Like list


Random bits that didn't qualify as Didn't Like
- Ugh - another Grandma joke
- Really suprised when Mitchell said Ygraine because I was thinking of the Christain one. Great line for Teal'c by the way. I know there are many versions of the Arthurian legend but isn't the enchanting of Ygraine supposed to be where Uther was made to appear as her husband and they conceive Arthur?? Maybe they are heading somewhere with that, but then again maybe not.
- I really hope that SGC got permanent custody of the gate in exchange for the ship. Having the Russian's have a hold over the Stargate program is getting OLD!! Get real, not only did the SGC recently have a shipload of gates & DHD's in their posession but they could go grab a set from an uninhabited planet anytime they want.
- I hope they continue Vala's character along these subdued lines as I can see this version of her as a permanent character next season. Tone her down and she comes across as smart and funny, ramp her up and it gets ludicrous. However I'm not holding my breath. Mitchell started off as a decent officer and look what they did to him.
- Teal'c and Sam's musical chairs! First he was at the back of the room, then next to Sam, then at the back and so on. They actually changed chairs a couple of times too. I realise it was to accommodate the different camera shots but it says something that I was paying more attention to this than the storyline.
- We didn't get to see much of the Chinese delegate. Or Daniel for that matter.


So this is the episode we get when they don't do a clip show. Oh well, I hope they spent the money well on the SFX for next week. I thought CB did a good job with Vala this week. Did I mention it was slow? Informative but slow, could have fit it in a half hour or less.

[nccjones]

This was more on the so-so side because it was reeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaally boring. The SGC wasn't even at all phased that she communicated with them. Sam and Mitchell were only excited about the technology and how to turn it off. I got the feeling that if Vala hadn't have tried to contact them they would have totally forgotten about her (if they hadn't already). I actually felt bad for Vala, because she had spent the last few months trying to figure a way to contact them and they continued on without her.

Another thing that bothered me is we never saw any reaction from Daniel when he found out Vala had contacted them. Also, didn't Daniel and Vala go into a coma when they used the device? Why was Vala just sitting there calmly when her husband came in shooting? I felt for the bar maid....that was a grisly death scene. She did a good job.

I didn't care much for Tomin. I thought he was a weak character and I'm surprised that Vala felt anything for him. Especially after the way he left her for 3 days no food and no water. That whole thing bugged me. The Michael Ironsides guy...can't remember his name, said he left her to "test" her. Three days????? A pregnant woman? I could understand a day if that.

But Tomin...he killed two people in cold blood and is willing to kill an entire galaxy if need be in the name of the Ori...talk about a Jihad. I could see someone like him strapping a bomb on himself and walking onto a planet where there's tons of people and pulling the trigger. I also hope this doesn't turn out to be some kind of love story where he sees the light and he and Vala live happily ever after. I'm kinda worried about that too. But I'm thinking he'll probably come to a grisly end.

Overall, it was a boring episode. The interview was painful. Though I did get a kick out Vala wanting pancakes....lol. I'm probably one of the only one's who didn't care for Daniel in the locker room.

It really was nice to see Vala again, though toned down some mainly due to her pregnancy. Would have liked more Daniel . Definately missed his sweet face and kind eyes. Looking forward to next week, I think it will be a good cliffhanger and exciting to watch. Man, I do miss the evil Goua'ld...lol.

Oh, and can you believe it? I have nothing bad to say about Mitchell! (Nothing good either...he was just blah....lol, oh, and I could have done without another Grandma joke...they're getting old.)

[the fifth man]

Just finished watching "Crusade" again awhile ago. And I'm glad I did, because I caught a few things I didn't on the first run. Definitely an awesome episode. Vala was terrific, and the actor who played her husband rocked too. I sure hope to see him next week in "Camelot". It's just sad that he'll probably have to be killed. There's no way to turn him against the Ori.

[esoap524]

I found Tomin's character really appealing and am sad that it are ships full of people like him that we will be forced to destroy in the future. I never felt so bad about the Jaffa under the service of their gods, because they were trained warriors. These folks are just regular townspeople, conscripted to serve the Ori. Very sad.

I agree. This episode did an excellent job of giving a human face to these followers. win or lose, you're going to feel badly for these people who are killed in the name of origin. As Vala pointed out, it's gonna be bloody.

This episode really solidified Vala's character and makes me look forward to what she can bring to S10. Such composure while at the business end of a weapon! Goodness knows, she can talk her way out of most anything.

Also, was very amused by the little bit between Carter and Vala, when Carter's trying to tell her she has chocolate on her nose. Kind of a nice little bonding moment ... because that's what women do for each other!

Finally! I liked Vala from the get-go probably because of my fangirliness over Claudia Black but I didn't like the fact that she had no depth, especially because Black is a very good actress. This episode showed more depth, and, thusly, more range. I thought the scenes between Vala and Tomin were very touching, so much so that I feel sick thinking about his eventual demise--you know the poor sap is toast!

I liked that little Carter/Vala moment too. Even though I thought it was a tad over the top, I liked the resulting Carter/Vala interaction. I sure hope we get lot more C/V moments in s10.

I also thought the Mitchell moment, where he tells Vala that it's surprising that there was a part of her that DID want the baby, was a nice glimpse into Mitchell--matter of fact, yet still compassionate. It was lovely. I didn't mind a mostly character driven episode at all. Wouldn't want it weekly but it was a nice break.