Crusade (919)

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

this is the first time we don't see a "to be continued..." at the end of the episode i guess it is a two part episode but not really one. I swear this is the best season i ever seen besides the first season. They did an excellent job this year.

[Dani347]

Well there are alot of people who do see Vala as simply being an extension of Daniel, considering all the complaints about the 'Daniel/Vala Hour' for the first 5 eps

Again, just don't go with the idea of Vala in Daniel's body. Find some way to tell the story with Vala as Vala. It would be like doing a musical episode of a tv show with someone in the cast that's known to be a singer, and not having them sing. Or, hiring a tap dancer for a tap dancing movie and not letting them tap dance. Actually, it would be more like hiring a tap dancer for a tap dancing movie, having him play a tap dancer, and then having someone else do all the actual tap dancing.

And, I'm sure there are a lot of people who already felt Vala was an interesting character in her own right. And,possibly a lot of people who loved how Vala was in the first 5 episodes, and were horribly disappointed in how her character was written in this episode, as well as a lot of people may just hate Vala and hate a whole episode with her as the main character period, as well as a lot of people who loved Daniel and Vala together and hated not having him interact with her again. There are a lot of different scenarios that a lot of different people could like or not like. I don't think there's any way to know if any one group outnumbered the others. But, either way, I think that they could have found a way to showcase Vala, have her story told, have SG1 a part of the episode, without putting Vala in Daniel's body.

[the fifth man]

very true. and it's only a discussion point as a comparison to the futility to fighting the ori and thier armies.

these aren't a bunch of enslaved folks held under the thumb of a mean and nasty over dressed style monger...they're passionate believers that would rather die than even consider another alternative. a few members of a resisitence? sure, there will be some. but over all, the only way to 'win' this war is to slaughter countless thousands. and even if htey find some way to kill all the ori only, there'll still be thousands of planets full of millions of people that are going to hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, those that killed their gods

ther'es no way to 'win' this.

no matter what the sgc does, most of one galaxy and a good chunk of this one will hate them for it.

the followers of the ori are so totally indoctrinated that they will never accept that the ori are bad, heck we only have orlin and daniel's word that they are bad

that's one reason i'm not fond of the ori in general. it's a lose/lose storyline

That's kind of funny. For those same reasons, that's why I am fond of the Ori storyline. I can't wait to see how we deal with this problem of epic proportions. It is going to be probably the hardest struggle we've ever faced on this show, and I can't wait to experience it. To each their own, right?

[the fifth man]

this is the first time we don't see a "to be continued..." at the end of the episode i guess it is a two part episode but not really one. I swear this is the best season i ever seen besides the first season. They did an excellent job this year.

They definitely have done a fine job this season. That's why I'm so pumped for season 10 too.

[NotAscended]

these aren't a bunch of enslaved folks held under the thumb of a mean and nasty over dressed style monger...they're passionate believers that would rather die than even consider another alternative. a few members of a resisitence? sure, there will be some. but over all, the only way to 'win' this war is to slaughter countless thousands. and even if htey find some way to kill all the ori only, there'll still be thousands of planets full of millions of people that are going to hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, those that killed their gods

ther'es no way to 'win' this.

no matter what the sgc does, most of one galaxy and a good chunk of this one will hate them for it.

the followers of the ori are so totally indoctrinated that they will never accept that the ori are bad, heck we only have orlin and daniel's word that they are bad

that's one reason i'm not fond of the ori in general. it's a lose/lose storyline

You make some really good points about the difference between the Ori and the other foes that the SGC has faced. However, I'm just hoping that the writers have set the bar higher for this storyline by making it appear to us, the viewers, to be a no-win situation. Throughout the series, we've always been led to believe that SG1 will somehow find a way to save the day, in part because the whole series followed upon a film in which we did defeat the enemy. I like to think of this storyline as "upping the ante" and really testing humanity's desire for freedom in the face of a seemingly unwinnable war. In this way, it's a lot closer to the early seasons of the series in which it was harder to see how the Gou'ald could be defeated, but now with a much more complicated enemy.

[jasnell]

The one really good thing that this episode did was demonstrate that the majority of the followers of the Ori are generally ordinary people and are not all superhuman priors. The episode also drew a number of parallels between the Ori and the Goa'uld... namely, their use of their technological superiority to enslave a race of people to do their bidding. Just as winning the minds of Jaffa was key to overturning the Goa'uld, winning the minds of those who follow the Ori will be the key to stopping them... especially given that the Ori draw their power from those who worship them.

[Hatcheter]

It's been said already, but I think it bears repeating:

Seeing Vala when she possessed Daniel is thematically consistent with what was established for this situation at the beginning of the season.

We the viewers get to see the person who is really there, not the bodies that are being inhabited. To complain about Cladia Black being there instead of Michael Shanks obligates you to complain about Claudia and Michael getting all the screen time in 'Avalon part II' and 'Origin', instead of the young actors hired to play Harrid and Sallis.

It was important for Claudia to be the one sitting in that chair. For the viewers, to reacquaint us with a character we haven't seen since last summer, and to make blatantly clear who was doing the talking. It was also important for the acting, to convey everything that needed to be seen. Having Michael do all the 'present' scenes wouldn't have been effective, I think, not to mention making it a much more demanding shoot. Sure, it's a shame that he got such limited screen time in this episode, but over the last nine years, there have been plenty of episodes where certain actors had a limited presence. Besides, there have been plenty of Daniel-heavy episodes this season, it was his turn to sit back for once.

All-in-all, a very good episode, one that demanded an almost immediate rewatching from me. (A role Galactica occupied the last two weeks, but didn't merit this time).

[wikeja]

I must say, after seeing this ep, I want to black light the borrom of my toilet seat. (Ori ships) On a serious note, although a bit slow at times, I enjoyed the ep.

[Formerhost]

Well, it was tender and all, but was Tomin really necessary? It just seemed that they put him in there to stretch out the story. I think, especially for the second to last episode of the season, having a talky episode (with the only action happening with someone who is not yet a regular and a bunch of one time guest stars) is the wrong way to go. The regulars should be an active part of the show. Heck, even if it's one regular, that's fine. But, imo, at least one person who's name is part of the main credits should have a major part in the episode. All the episodes. I'm sure they could have given CB a good acting opportunity and lots of angst and all that, without the entire episode being her sitting down talking and flashbacks, all to pretty much info dump the points that she got pregnant and the Ori are building ships.

And, then, they could have slowly brought in some aspects later on, woven more delicately into the story. Like, what if Tomin came in a later episode (maybe turned into a Prior?) and Vala reacted and when asked, she said that he was her husband?

Tomin was necessary, as he's part of Vala's story arc in season 10

[wolverine_nl]

I agree on that it was the good thing to do, to let CB sit in the chair, it was the same in the beginning of the season and is consistant this way.

Can't wait for the last episode!!

[valaCB]

TPTB showed what was going on in the Ori galaxy in preparation for the war. We could watch it instead of just hearing Vala talk.

OK, I see
Me - i love seeing Claudia in this episode, talking and acting.

It was important for Claudia to be the one sitting in that chair. For the viewers, to reacquaint us with a character we haven't seen since last summer, and to make blatantly clear who was doing the talking. It was also important for the acting, to convey everything that needed to be seen. Having Michael do all the 'present' scenes wouldn't have been effective, I think, not to mention making it a much more demanding shoot. Sure, it's a shame that he got such limited screen time in this episode, but over the last nine years, there have been plenty of episodes where certain actors had a limited presence. Besides, there have been plenty of Daniel-heavy episodes this season, it was his turn to sit back for once.

I agree

[FallenAngelII]

As someone already said: Nobody should give a crap whether or not it would've been better to have Daniel portray Vala-in-Daniel.

Because in "Avalon (Part II)" and "Origin", it was Claudia Black and Michael shanks portraying Daniel and Vala in those two Ori galaxy people. So unless you'd rather have had 2 episodes where the only glimpses we'd get of Michael and Claudia were of their lifeless bodies in the SGC, stop whining.

[scarimor]

I must say, after seeing this ep, I want to black light the borrom of my toilet seat. (Ori ships)

lol! This is the second time a TV sci-fi space-ship has manifested loo-properties - the Starship Voyager resembled a toilet seat too. The shape of things to come...

[Zoser]

I don't think it had to have had that effect. We've seen some pretty touching "Daniel inhabited by others" scenes in Lifeboat. MS is a good enough actor, IMHO, to have pulled it off.

We all, of course, remember 'Holiday' and Ma'chello. The boy can act.

[Zoser]

Well, it was tender and all, but was Tomin really necessary? It just seemed that they put him in there to stretch out the story. I think, especially for the second to last episode of the season, having a talky episode (with the only action happening with someone who is not yet a regular and a bunch of one time guest stars) is the wrong way to go. The regulars should be an active part of the show. Heck, even if it's one regular, that's fine. But, imo, at least one person who's name is part of the main credits should have a major part in the episode. All the episodes. I'm sure they could have given CB a good acting opportunity and lots of angst and all that, without the entire episode being her sitting down talking and flashbacks, all to pretty much info dump the points that she got pregnant and the Ori are building ships.

And, then, they could have slowly brought in some aspects later on, woven more delicately into the story. Like, what if Tomin came in a later episode (maybe turned into a Prior?) and Vala reacted and when asked, she said that he was her husband?

Who exactly are building the ships? Is it the medieval cannon fodder or are there lots and lots of Ori (or a few moving in mystical ways)? There is lots of metal to smelt for the hulls, lots of advanced systems in these ships guts to construct and test. The locals do not look equipped to even begin to build them even given the blue prints.