Crusade (919)

[Dani347]

I think a better way to do this would somehow let the team go through the gate and come upon Vala on another planet. Maybe a planet in this galaxy that had been converted to the Ori. Even have Vala in dire straits (maybe they could come upon her chained up), while SG1 was there. Make them a real part of the show.

[PG15]

That could work...but it would have a lot of explaining to do about how Vala got there in the first place.

Also, the entire episode would be completely different since there would not be anyone like Tomin who had been an Ori-believer since childhood, and most likely no ship-buildings since that would happen in the Ori home galaxy.

[Dani347]

Well, it was tender and all, but was Tomin really necessary? It just seemed that they put him in there to stretch out the story. I think, especially for the second to last episode of the season, having a talky episode (with the only action happening with someone who is not yet a regular and a bunch of one time guest stars) is the wrong way to go. The regulars should be an active part of the show. Heck, even if it's one regular, that's fine. But, imo, at least one person who's name is part of the main credits should have a major part in the episode. All the episodes. I'm sure they could have given CB a good acting opportunity and lots of angst and all that, without the entire episode being her sitting down talking and flashbacks, all to pretty much info dump the points that she got pregnant and the Ori are building ships.

And, then, they could have slowly brought in some aspects later on, woven more delicately into the story. Like, what if Tomin came in a later episode (maybe turned into a Prior?) and Vala reacted and when asked, she said that he was her husband?

[chancewc64]

I missed both the stargate sg-1 and atlantis episodes because i was out of town and the hotel didnt have SCI-FI, stupide hotels, what happened in the shows. also if anyone knows what happen in battlestar galatica?

[Agent_Dark]

I don't think it had to have had that effect. We've seen some pretty touching "Daniel inhabited by others" scenes in Lifeboat. MS is a good enough actor, IMHO, to have pulled it off.

However, CB is also a very good actor. I actually prefer the way they did it (ie have CB there for most of the time and MS only for a few bits). Vala will be a regular character in s10. It doesn't matter if you like that or hate it, its gonna happen Which means they need to establish Vala as a character in her own right. Having MS play Vala in those breifing room scenes would not have helped in that regard - all it would have done was further reinforce that Vala is an extension of Daniel.

[Xmen583]

I missed both the stargate sg-1 and atlantis episodes because i was out of town and the hotel didnt have SCI-FI, stupide hotels, what happened in the shows. also if anyone knows what happen in battlestar galatica?

there is there going to be a repeating ep soon as the season over on march 10.

some of the hotels don't have cable, some has cable. you should thought of recording it, i recording the tape on stargate sg-1 and atlantis till i buy a DVD Case.

[LORD MONK]

What happened. We are screwed like always and the only way we can win is if this ep. is followed by a two parter cliff hanger that ends with us pulling something out of our butt in the last four minutes in the second part of the two parter.

[PG15]

Well, it was tender and all, but was Tomin really necessary? It just seemed that they put him in there to stretch out the story. I think, especially for the second to last episode of the season, having a talky episode (with the only action happening with someone who is not yet a regular and a bunch of one time guest stars) is the wrong way to go. The regulars should be an active part of the show. Heck, even if it's one regular, that's fine. But, imo, at least one person who's name is part of the main credits should have a major part in the episode. All the episodes. I'm sure they could have given CB a good acting opportunity and lots of angst and all that, without the entire episode being her sitting down talking and flashbacks, all to pretty much info dump the points that she got pregnant and the Ori are building ships.

Tomin was absolutely necessary since it showed a more human side of Vala that people's been yammering about since the beginning.

Besides, look at all the other penultimate episodes we've been given over the years:

Politics - clipshow
1969 - standalone, a little action at the end.
Crystal Skull - standalone, pretty much no action.
Double Jeopardy - Action-a-plenty
Meridian - not much action, but Danny dies
Prophecy - A bit of action
Lost City Part 1 - a bit of action at the beginning, but pretty much all set up. Inauguration was a clip show.
Moebius Part 1 - Not much action as I remembered.

Really, if you define action as explosions and fighting (which I don't know if you are), then Crusade is pretty much par for the course.

In this case the main characters pretty much had to be sacrificed to get the info dump, since we'll probably be needing it, not just for Camelot, but for what happens to Vala next season.

And, then, they could have slowly brought in some aspects later on, woven more delicately into the story. Like, what if Tomin came in a later episode (maybe turned into a Prior?) and Vala reacted and when asked, she said that he was her husband?

I don't know...a lot of people will be complaining that it's out of the blue or the writers pulled it right out of their butts. Or that it was like a soap opera or something.

[Dani347]

However, CB is also a very good actor. I actually prefer the way they did it (ie have CB there for most of the time and MS only for a few bits). Vala will be a regular character in s10. It doesn't matter if you like that or hate it, its gonna happen Which means they need to establish Vala as a character in her own right. Having MS play Vala in those breifing room scenes would not have helped in that regard - all it would have done was further reinforce that Vala is an extension of Daniel.

But, Vala's been established as a character. Maybe if she had only had one episode before this, I would agree. But, everyone knows that Vala is not an extension of Daniel. And, in the format they told, there were the scenes on the planet that gave CB a lot of opportunity to act, and I think gave her better characterization than sitting in the briefing room. So, it wouldn't be like she wouldn't have been in the episode at all, or even that she would have had a minor part. Her part would still be big.

Or, like I said, they never should have gone with the Vala in Daniel's body route.

PG15

I don't know...a lot of people will be complaining that it's out of the blue or the writers pulled it right out of their butts. Or that it was like a soap opera or something.

Well, to put it bluntly, I don't care what a lot of people say. Everything I say is how I think things should go. Which is how I believe everyone posts when they say something works or doesn't. They're thinking about themselves, not what a lot of people would think. Plus, Vala could just have mentioned that she tricked someone into thinking he was her husband, so it wouldn't come out of the blue. It would have been established in this episode.

And, I think we also have a different definition of action. I don't mean big shoot em up space ships action adventure type thing. I mean, an episode that involves a majority of showing instead of telling(this episode had some showing, but it had a heck of a lot of telling, too).

And, to use your argument, a lot of people hate the clip shows.

And, I think they could have shown Vala's humanity in other ways. Just her seriousness in the episode would have helped to show that.

[Skydiver]

Yeah, but only because they truly believe what they are doing is right. People like Tomin were raised to believe in the power and goodness of the Ori. They know nothing else.

exactly. and tomin and the others likely believe that if they die killing the non-believers it's an immediate one way trip to 'heaven' which is ascension. and by the time they find out that the ori are scamming them, it'll be too late, they'll be dead.

not to drag too much real life politics into it, but this same fervor is why people are willing to blow htemselves up to kill infidels, it's an immediate trip to paradise.

[mgehman]

not to drag too much real life politics into it, but this same fervor is why people are willing to blow htemselves up to kill infidels, it's an immediate trip to paradise.

No, no, don't go there. Not the place for this kind of discussion. I like my fantasy,...fantasy and my reality,...reality.

[Skydiver]

very true. and it's only a discussion point as a comparison to the futility to fighting the ori and thier armies.

these aren't a bunch of enslaved folks held under the thumb of a mean and nasty over dressed style monger...they're passionate believers that would rather die than even consider another alternative. a few members of a resisitence? sure, there will be some. but over all, the only way to 'win' this war is to slaughter countless thousands. and even if htey find some way to kill all the ori only, there'll still be thousands of planets full of millions of people that are going to hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, those that killed their gods

ther'es no way to 'win' this.

no matter what the sgc does, most of one galaxy and a good chunk of this one will hate them for it.

the followers of the ori are so totally indoctrinated that they will never accept that the ori are bad, heck we only have orlin and daniel's word that they are bad

that's one reason i'm not fond of the ori in general. it's a lose/lose storyline

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

I'm sure the complete lack of 'splosions will make this a yawner for many fans but for me this was a good story. Intelligent. It kind of put me in mind of B5 for quality and since I am as blind to B5's faults as an Ori believer is to any other point of view, then you know that I liked the ep.

I liked Vala very much in this ep. I'll take this Vala every single coming episode, thank you very much.

And, yes, I did very much enjoy her opening scene. But that's definitely because the humor was limited to just that one scene.

Sam, not so much this time. Why did the writers sacrifice her natural fellow feeling for her enthusiasm? Couldn't she have shown both? She could at the very least have caught herself, halfway through her techno-delight, realizing that she was being an unfeeling ... person... and put a hand out to Vala and asked if she were alright. Would that have been so hard? It's frustrating for me, that the characters aren't used to their maximum potential, especially when they have little enough screen time in an ep. (And poor Teal'c; what he got. )

I enjoyed the B-plot concerning the fate of the SGC and how Landry figured out what was really going on (he put me in mind of Commander Vimes of the Watch Discworld by Terry Pratchett). I would have liked the suspense of the Gate's fate to drag on for another ep, but, oh well....

I didn't see Servis-as-an-Agent-of-Good coming, nor his demise at the hands of gentle Tomin.(The demise didn't surprise me, just that Tomin demised him.)

Tomin really puts a face to the believers that are coming to fight, here. The Jaffa were pretty much always presented as just so much cannon fodder throughout the series, but this time we are getting to know the enemy's footsoldiers right from the start. Kudos, PTB. Please make something of this.

I thought it was interesting how not every town has a religious leader, and that Priors are not all in excellent health, either. What was with Scarface? You'd think he'd at least get free health coverage....

[Agent_Dark]

But, Vala's been established as a character. Maybe if she had only had one episode before this, I would agree. But, everyone knows that Vala is not an extension of Daniel. And, in the format they told, there were the scenes on the planet that gave CB a lot of opportunity to act, and I think gave her better characterization than sitting in the briefing room. So, it wouldn't be like she wouldn't have been in the episode at all, or even that she would have had a minor part. Her part would still be big.

Or, like I said, they never should have gone with the Vala in Daniel's body route.

Well there are alot of people who do see Vala as simply being an extension of Daniel, considering all the complaints about the 'Daniel/Vala Hour' for the first 5 eps

[Skydiver]

Well there are alot of people who do see Vala as simply being an extension of Daniel, considering all the complaints about the 'Daniel/Vala Hour' for the first 5 eps

maybe not extension of, but certainly the other half of

this is pretty much the first time she's had to stand on her own and not exist solely for her schtick