Arthur's Mantle (918)

[binkpmmc]

You're NEVER going to accept Cam, right? Sad.

I know you didn't ask me but the answer for me is quite simple - no, not unless or until they start writing him as a believable militray character (kind of like the one they said he was in episode 1 - I have yet to see THAT guy). What really is sad is that the writers are so incredibly incompetent when it comes to writing this character and that incompetence is showing through to the character.

[RealmOfX]

SNIP

BUt in this ep I don't see his going after TEal'c as something he did without thinking about it. He clearly did think about it when he talked to Carter. He knew he couldn't do a lot but he felt that gathering intel was important enough to go, and he had a plan on how to get back, which was to come back when the gate opened. If he hadn't thought about it, then he would've just gone off without telling her or without a plan on how to get back.

SNIP

We all know Mitchell went to the Sodan planet because the plot bunny needed him there to save the day [/end sarcasm]

Hmmmmm, I don't quite see it the way you do. I see it as a sad lacking in his thought processes, something you don't want in a SG team leader. I'd expect him to look at the situation logically -
1) evaluate his current situation - he's out of phase and can't interact with his normal plane of existence except in a limited capacity through the ancient device
2) he wants to help Teal'c - admirable trait but He's Out Of Phase and can't do anything
3) he wants to gather intel - sigh, the point of gathering intel is to use it either tactically or strategically and in a timely fashion but He's Out Of Phase and can't do anything with it
4) SOP - don't split up unless it's unavoidable, being on your own is dangerous in unknown situations
5) Two SG teams had been sent as an extraction team, the situation was being handled

So the way I see it is that 1) he shouldn't have gone 2) he should have known why he shouldn't go 3) Sam should have pointed out all of the above to him.

[Zoser]

Did any one notice Major Hadden said "By who?" and I could hear in my head (very loudly) Jack O'Neill saying "By whom!"

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Oh, BTW, what's a whoopie?

it's a reference to Whoopi Goldberg and the movie Ghost

whoopi was the only one that could see patrick swayze. Seen ghost whisperer? same premise, just a decade earlier

Ah! Thanks for that. I haven't seen any of those ghost type movies.(Ghosts bore me to death... heh, heh.)

Someone asked about the Jeopardy reference earlier: I don't think the Daily Double is the horse racing reference. It makes more sense, in context, for it to be Jeopardy. It's the scene where Daniel is quizzing Landry and Landry asks Daniel a question of his own - about the cloak, and Cam says, "Ooh, Daily Double" which is the Jeopardy question that doubles your wager if you get it right.

I've noted that a lot of fans thought Lee was not so much funny as a joke. I thought he was being very open-minded about things. Of course he's not going to be the one to find the answer; that's what Sam&Dan are for. But just as Sam was often outsmarted by Urgo's device, so too, was Lee by Merlin's device.

As for the Honey I Shrunk the Colonels moment, well, better to rule out the possibility than to step on the heros, right? If the Ori can make bugs increase in mass from tens to thousands on a single serving of meatloaf, how could Lee rule out an Ancient device capable of going the other way and reducing mass? He had eliminated other possibilities, like Ancient transportation. By now, Lee must figure that nothing - absolutely nothing, no matter how implausible, is impossible at the SGC, especially where the Ancients are involved.

I thought he was pretty cool, and in character as a happy, open-minded(not at all like Rothman) willing to investigate all options kind of guy. And he must be a terrific dad to his kids, too.

[Zoser]

You're NEVER going to accept Cam, right? Sad.

Certainly not the total jacka$$ they write him as.
Maybe one of his injuries was one he has not recovered from.

[Skydiver]

Certainly not the total jacka$$ they write him as.
Maybe one of his injuries was one he has not recovered from.

yeah, maybe he had a head wound that's gone undiagnosed?

[Formerhost]

We all know Mitchell went to the Sodan planet because the plot bunny needed him there to save the day [/end sarcasm]

Hmmmmm, I don't quite see it the way you do. I see it as a sad lacking in his thought processes, something you don't want in a SG team leader. I'd expect him to look at the situation logically -
1) evaluate his current situation - he's out of phase and can't interact with his normal plane of existence except in a limited capacity through the ancient device
2) he wants to help Teal'c - admirable trait but He's Out Of Phase and can't do anything
3) he wants to gather intel - sigh, the point of gathering intel is to use it either tactically or strategically and in a timely fashion but He's Out Of Phase and can't do anything with it
4) SOP - don't split up unless it's unavoidable, being on your own is dangerous in unknown situations
5) Two SG teams had been sent as an extraction team, the situation was being handled

So the way I see it is that 1) he shouldn't have gone 2) he should have known why he shouldn't go 3) Sam should have pointed out all of the above to him.

But she hasn't. And Mitchell did the best he could do in this situation.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Did any one notice Major Hadden said "By who?" and I could hear in my head (very loudly) Jack O'Neill saying "By whom!"

Puts hand up. Me! Me!

I pulled a Sam Carter and yelled "By whom!" at the screen.

[RealmOfX]

But she hasn't. And Mitchell did the best he could do in this situation.

Umm that's the whole point - if this is his best, then he shouldn't be leading anything! Quite frankly I don't think that he did the best he could. How is going off alone when you know you can't accomplish anything and it is contrary to your military training, doing your best?

[Mesenet]

It's not part of Ben's acting style. I've seen him in other stuff where he's nothing like Mitchell or Crichton.

Yeah, I had to do double take when he played Lee Majors on the one tv movie about phenom of Charlie's Angels. He nailed the voice and the mannerisms.

[nccjones]

We all know Mitchell went to the Sodan planet because the plot bunny needed him there to save the day [/end sarcasm]

Hmmmmm, I don't quite see it the way you do. I see it as a sad lacking in his thought processes, something you don't want in a SG team leader. I'd expect him to look at the situation logically -
1) evaluate his current situation - he's out of phase and can't interact with his normal plane of existence except in a limited capacity through the ancient device
2) he wants to help Teal'c - admirable trait but He's Out Of Phase and can't do anything
3) he wants to gather intel - sigh, the point of gathering intel is to use it either tactically or strategically and in a timely fashion but He's Out Of Phase and can't do anything with it
4) SOP - don't split up unless it's unavoidable, being on your own is dangerous in unknown situations
5) Two SG teams had been sent as an extraction team, the situation was being handled

So the way I see it is that 1) he shouldn't have gone 2) he should have known why he shouldn't go 3) Sam should have pointed out all of the above to him.

That's exactly what I've been wanting to say! Thank you. The biggest thing that bothered me was your #1. He was in a situation and shouldn't have gone off until his was resolved. It's great that he wanted to help Teal'c...but you are right, Teal'c had 2 SG teams with him. There was nothing he could do to help. He needed to keep his mind on his current situation, not add to another one.

[nccjones]

Ah! Thanks for that. I haven't seen any of those ghost type movies.(Ghosts bore me to death... heh, heh.)

Someone asked about the Jeopardy reference earlier: I don't think the Daily Double is the horse racing reference. It makes more sense, in context, for it to be Jeopardy. It's the scene where Daniel is quizzing Landry and Landry asks Daniel a question of his own - about the cloak, and Cam says, "Ooh, Daily Double" which is the Jeopardy question that doubles your wager if you get it right.

I've noted that a lot of fans thought Lee was not so much funny as a joke. I thought he was being very open-minded about things. Of course he's not going to be the one to find the answer; that's what Sam&Dan are for. But just as Sam was often outsmarted by Urgo's device, so too, was Lee by Merlin's device.

As for the Honey I Shrunk the Colonels moment, well, better to rule out the possibility than to step on the heros, right? If the Ori can make bugs increase in mass from tens to thousands on a single serving of meatloaf, how could Lee rule out an Ancient device capable of going the other way and reducing mass? He had eliminated other possibilities, like Ancient transportation. By now, Lee must figure that nothing - absolutely nothing, no matter how implausible, is impossible at the SGC, especially where the Ancients are involved.

I thought he was pretty cool, and in character as a happy, open-minded(not at all like Rothman) willing to investigate all options kind of guy. And he must be a terrific dad to his kids, too.

That's what I thought too about the Double Jeapordy question also.

I agree with your assessment on Dr. Lee. I was critical too on how they portrayed him, but you kind of put everything in it's context. Thanks for giving me another way to look at it

[nccjones]

Yeah, I had to do double take when he played Lee Majors on the one tv movie about phenom of Charlie's Angels. He nailed the voice and the mannerisms.

Really? I never heard of it and would love to see it! Lee Majors has always been one of my favorites (he is to die for as Heath Barkley).

[ShardsofGlass]

Teal'c's mind wouldn't be on Mitchell because Mitchell was invisible to Teal'c, so that would not be a consideration of Mitchell's before he went, and it shouldn't have been one.

All Mitchell wanted to do was gather some intel. He can go places that no one else can because he's invisible. He couldn't be hurt because he was out of phase. What was he going to do on SGC? Twiddle his thumbs while Daniel spent what looked like it would take hours and hours to translate all the screens on that device? I think going off world in this instant was neither foolhardy nor reckless. Mitchell is obviously the kind of character who is willing to take a chance sometimes, and that makes him a much more interesting character.

Was it completely risk free to go offworld? Of course not. Was it the horribly foolhardy *mistake* that so many people here paint it as? Absolutely not.

[RealmOfX]

Teal'c's mind wouldn't be on Mitchell because Mitchell was invisible to Teal'c, so that would not be a consideration of Mitchell's before he went, and it shouldn't have been one.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

All Mitchell wanted to do was gather some intel. He can go places that no one else can because he's invisible.

I repeat a point from my previous post - 3) he wants to gather intel - sigh, the point of gathering intel is to use it either tactically or strategically and in a timely fashion but He's Out Of Phase and can't do anything with it.

He couldn't be hurt because he was out of phase.

This is true to a point. Things on his normal plane of existence would pass through him while he was phased, quite true but what about anything on his current plane of existence?? Umm that's a big don't know. What are the long term effects of being out of phase? Umm that's a big don't know. He could of easily have gotten trapped off world with no way back, which could have ultimately harmed him. A military leader is supposed to think beyond the obvious - he didn't. He only knew one small thing about his current situation, he was out of phase - everything else was a big "Don't know". Mitchell didn't know enough to say that he couldn't be hurt and he should have realised it.

What was he going to do on SGC?

Maybe resolve his current situation before running off alone to a planet where he couldn't do anything to resolve a situation that had already been assigned to two other SG teams. Maybe act like the military leader he is SUPPOSED to be.

Twiddle his thumbs while Daniel spent what looked like it would take hours and hours to translate all the screens on that device?

If that would help resolve the current situation then yes. Oh look, translating the screen DID solve the situation.

I think going off world in this instant was neither foolhardy nor reckless.

I'm afraid I don't agree with you.

Mitchell is obviously the kind of character who is willing to take a chance sometimes, and that makes him a much more interesting character.

I agree with you but unfortunately this is also what makes him DANGEROUS to himself and others. His inability to see when he should take a chance and when he shouldn't is a major flaw for an officer to have and will get someone killed someday.

Was it completely risk free to go offworld? Of course not. Was it the horribly foolhardy *mistake* that so many people here paint it as? Absolutely not.

You're asking the wrong questions, the question is "Should he have gone off world knowing the things he did at the time he made the decision"? A reasonable question that any military leader would have asked themselves, and the answer is ......... Absolutely not.


Uugggghhhh this is degenerating into a discussion of Mitchell's military competence or incompetence depending on your point of view (my apologies). I liked this episode - how about we agree to disagree on Mitchell?