Arthur's Mantle (918)

[ShardsofGlass]

which is another similarity he has to jonas. in addition to reading daniels' notes, jonas also read mission reports.

which makes both of them the convenient 'i remember reading......' lead in to an expositionary 'let's refresh the viewers on the plot' segment

What's wrong with that? It's a heck of a lot less awkward than how they normally get the history across - which is by the characters telling each other things they already know. I think it's charming that Mitchell sat in his hospital bed reading all the reports. As someone who was stuck at home for 6 weeks straight with my own injury, I can tell you that you'll read just about anything to pass the time.

[Fargater]

oh i doubt he'll be destroyed by the ori. his name is first in the credits, he's immune

and i can see him wanting to prove himself. but if he wants to learn from the best, why won't he listen? why does he have to keep ignoring the wisdom of the experienced ones to touch that or touch this or do this or risk his life?

sg-1 hasn't survived for 9 years by being stupid

if he wants to learn from them i'd expect to hear him asking 'what should we do' instead of his normal 'ok, here's what i'm gonna do' and them just tagging along behind him, picking up the pieces

Indeed!

And if he`s read all the mission reports, hasn`t he learned anything from those? They bring that up when they need to explain something and he rattles off something about this or that previous mission to help make the connection. But it doesn`t make sense for him to act so foolishly especially after reading all the reports.



Like back in Prototype, I think I was the only one who was mad that he pushed the button. Why the hell would he do that, especially after reading in countless reports things Jack must have written that likely basically said, "We encountered thus-and-such device, and against my recommendation Daniel proceeded to . . . " or whatever. I`m sure Jack would have worded it in the best possible light but still would have got the point across that he would have been more cautious with whatever the alien device was.

Anyway, one would think Cam would have more sense just from reading all the reports.

[Formerhost]

I gave up reading this thread due to all the arguing.

Anyway, it was an okay episode. Something I could tape and watch later because the invisibility stuff has been done before, and well, it wasn't exciting. I do still like the characters, but.... please for heaven's sake stop having Teal'c shooting everything with two guns. It's ridiculous macho posturing.

But the end wrapped up too quickly, should have had a small scene back at base.

Need new writers, well, need BETTER new writers, I should say.

They really should call David Kemper...

[ShardsofGlass]

Mitchell: Geez, he can't seem to do anything right for some people, but I think in this episode he finally found his stride. Ben Browder is NOT trying to be Richard Dean Anderson at all. Ben has always had great comedic timing, and he's been throwing the one-liners around for quite a while - for those who have seen his years on Farscape, they would know this to be true. If anything, I think he is trying to tone down is personality for the role of Mitchell. In Arthur's Mantle, Mitchell is genuinely relaxed around Sam, and it shows. There is a comfortable humor between them, and it seems apparent that he knows her better than he knows Daniel and Teal'c (and I don't mean shippy). It would make sense that they may know each other as friends as they are both military and probably move in the same circles. Mitchell wants to forge a friendship with Teal'c as well, I think it's also about the military aspect of their relationship. He can relate to Tea'c since they are both soilder types. The person he probably can't relate to well, at the moment, is Daniel. Daniel is all books, languages, and philosophy. Not exactly Mitchell's forte. This might explain why Mitchell referred to the team: Sam, Teal'c and Jackson. I have no problem with him calling Daniel "Jackson." It makes complete sense. As for Mitchell going off to help Teal'c and the Sodan, that's also plausible and NOT out of character or stupid. It was obvious that Mitchell was not going to be of any help on base. He doesn't know Ancient and he isn't a physics genius. He's a soilder. His argument to Sam was heartfelt and logical, and although Teal'c saved his life, it was Mitchell who preserved the crystal from getting blown up, and enabling the ENTIRE team to get home. Good job!

Totally agree with everything you just said.

[mother-goose]

liked the ep, liked the acting, wasnt too sure why they didnt check why the bad dude was dead at the end. Liked everyones lines, didnt like dr lee being made out as a dumbass, watch earlier eps of the season (first 6) and he's very clever (everyone else has said it already i know) LOVED DUAL P90's, i've been waiting for teal'c to do that for years!

[Formerhost]

What's wrong with that? It's a heck of a lot less awkward than how they normally get the history across - which is by the characters telling each other things they already know. I think it's charming that Mitchell sat in his hospital bed reading all the reports. As someone who was stuck at home for 6 weeks straight with my own injury, I can tell you that you'll read just about anything to pass the time.

I know something about it, as I'm exactly in the same situation right now Reading, Internet or DVDs.

[JUNIOR]

which is another similarity he has to jonas. in addition to reading daniels' notes, jonas also read mission reports.

which makes both of them the convenient 'i remember reading......' lead in to an expositionary 'let's refresh the viewers on the plot' segment

To me he's more like Joe Spencer from Indian with a little Jonas because Jonas read all of SG-1's reports a month (I think) and Mitch. said that it took him that full year to read all of the reports when he was in that military hospital so he's definitely not as smart as Jonas, but like Jonas he wants to be an instant asset but some would argue he more of a liability (not in my opinion). The reason I think he's more like Joe's character is because he can be more of an admirer of his teammates sometimes instead of being a team leader. He also quotes and references SG-1 mission reports like it’s the Bible (he must get it from his bible thumping days with grandma). He basically acts sort of like I think a cross between Joe and Jonas would act if he was on an SG team, but unlike both of these two he seems tougher.

[nccjones]

I didn't mean to intimate that you are the only one with a negative attitude toward Mitchell.

I guess, though, if it is your opinion is that if the PTB are listening at all to the fans, they'll be listening to the Anti-Mitchell notes and nothing else.

We'll see, I suppose, in Season 10. They may not have had the opportunity to "fix" the character to your liking because of the Season 9 production schedule.

If you (plural) have influence, we'll see them try to change Mitchell to be more like you(plural) want. If they aren't, there won't be much change.

To be honest, I don't expect any change and that was the point of my post. It's too late to do anything now. We are stuck with his OTT attitude and flippant quips and hero attitude.

I agree with you that he'll be back next year in ever Mitchell style. I really am glad you like him and I'm not being sarcastic in anyway. I don't want to come across that way. I wish I could like him so I could enjoy the entire show. But I still have the Big 3 to watch.

Who started the Big 3? I like that

[binkpmmc]

mitch is so incoherently written that he's becoming a joke.

not only is he a maverick, he seems to be a maverick with a death wish. either that or they think for him to be the big man and hero he has to senselessly endanger his life on a weekly basis.

i do agree iwth sam and daniel's annoyance at him. they have this 'yeah, we'd love to kick him to the curb, but we're stuck with him. And the only reason we haven't assigned him to another team is cause at least we're experienced enough to fix what he screws up' attitutde.

Hey Sky - that's a great point. He's an inexperienced dolt who doesn't know when to sit back and "learn from the best" so he proceeds to make trouble and Carter and Daniel are annoyed with him being on SG1, at least seem to be from their expressions, eye rolls, annoyed glances, smirks and comments, but they figure they should keep him because they are the most experienced and the best ones to get him, and any one else, including the SGC, out of the trouble he gets into. Now maybe I can stomach him knowing they are just keeping him with SG1 so he doesn't screw up the world or the galaxy or some poor other planet or galaxy with his arrogant and very bad moves.

[Fargater]

Okay, only read the first 5 pages plus the last 2, but this post has a lot of things to respond to, so. . .

This was an excellent episode. Plain and simple.

Each of the characters of SG-1 were utilized beautifully, in my opinion. If I had to pick out the one word to describe the episode, it was "chemistry." All the characters on SG-1 did great:

Mitchell: Geez, he can't seem to do anything right for some people, but I think in this episode he finally found his stride. Ben Browder is NOT trying to be Richard Dean Anderson at all. Ben has always had great comedic timing, and he's been throwing the one-liners around for quite a while - for those who have seen his years on Farscape, they would know this to be true. If anything, I think he is trying to tone down is personality for the role of Mitchell.

I never thought BB was trying to be like RDA, so I agree. Amen to the great comedic timing too. I think at first he or they were trying to tone down his personality for Cam, but I don`t like where they take him when they do turn him loose. I want more of the thoughtful Cam from the beginning of the season. He can do the one-liners and not be a doormat without also looking like an idiot, as he has too often in the later eps. If Cam`s read all the mission reports, he should have an even better idea of why he shouldn`t do most of the things they keep writing this character as doing.

I have to wonder what BB thinks of the character. When he got the part he watched all the seasons of SG-1 to get educated. I wonder if he agrees that this guy is believable at all for SG-1 the way they have him behave most of the time.

In Arthur's Mantle, Mitchell is genuinely relaxed around Sam, and it shows. There is a comfortable humor between them, and it seems apparent that he knows her better than he knows Daniel and Teal'c (and I don't mean shippy). It would make sense that they may know each other as friends as they are both military and probably move in the same circles. Mitchell wants to forge a friendship with Teal'c as well, I think it's also about the military aspect of their relationship. He can relate to Tea'c since they are both soilder types. The person he probably can't relate to well, at the moment, is Daniel. Daniel is all books, languages, and philosophy. Not exactly Mitchell's forte. This might explain why Mitchell referred to the team: Sam, Teal'c and Jackson. I have no problem with him calling Daniel "Jackson." It makes complete sense. As for Mitchell going off to help Teal'c and the Sodan, that's also plausible and NOT out of character or stupid. It was obvious that Mitchell was not going to be of any help on base. He doesn't know Ancient and he isn't a physics genius. He's a soilder. His argument to Sam was heartfelt and logical, and although Teal'c saved his life, it was Mitchell who preserved the crystal from getting blown up, and enabling the ENTIRE team to get home. Good job!

Thanks for posting this. I keep finding myself almost hating Cam the way they write him, and look desperately for posts that point out things maybe I`m missing. That said, I can`t agree with everything you said, but it was still nice to read it.

I did like the Sam/Cam interaction, like hitting each other. Like others have said, I immediately thought of the falling thru the floor issue. LOL

And I guess I really need to lighten up, because I was annoyed with Cam pestering Sam after she`d been up all night working on that thing to go and get hash browns. Go get `em yourself, and leave her the frell alone! But why interpret the scene that way? Why not see it as friendly concern and an attempt to get her away for a break? Hmm. Now he`s not so annoying.

And the food talk was funny to a point, but as others have said I thought it was a bit too much. Or not. A couple of ways to look at that. 1) Idiot is more concerned about missing out on roast beef than about their predicament. 2) Cam is not too concerned because hey, it`s happened before (he read the report!) and he`s confident Sam or Daniel will find the solution. The second interpretation is more pleasant. I gotta get that mindset more with this show.

I agree 100% with what you said about Cam`s reasoning to want to go to help the Sodan if possible. But IMO they ruined that for me by not having him show more (or really any) reaction to the news of Jolan`s(?) death at the hands of his own brother, or just a general reaction to the fate of the Sodan. More on the Sodan later. . .

Sam: Loved her in this episode. It was the first episode where I got to see Sam really show her comic flare. She was great. It must be frustrating being such a genius when the other local doctors and scientists can't figure out simple things (well, simple to her, anyway). Sam and Daniel's scenes together were great, and they really do seem like brother and sister. Their easy banter and the way they seem to understand each other without all the explanations makes them a joy to watch. They really need to have more interaction together.

Yeah, I enjoyed Sam in this one very much. Some people complained about her shouting at the people as if that would make them hear her, but lots of us have done similar things. I was LOL. And yeah, it must be frustrating to be right there and unable to tell them what she sees or to have them not see it.

Daniel: Great, as always. You kind of knew that Daniel might be of help since he went through the out-of-phase thing in "Crystal Skull," but the episode had enough twists and turns that it kept me guessing as to how it would all end up. I like that Daniel was ultimately able to figure out what happened to Sam and Mitchell, and he just went with it. "Press this key for 'yes' and this key for 'no.'" I loved his scenes trying to explain to Landry what he thinks happened, and Mitchell is happily excited behind him as Daniel figures it out. Those scenes were just hilarious. I think Daniel and Dr. Lee also have wonderful chemisry together. I don't think that Dr. Lee is stupid at all, he's a geek. That's what makes him so loveable. He doesn't need to be brillant and serious - we have Sam and Daniel for that.

Yep, I loved all that too, except I agree more with the people who feel that Dr. Lee is being reduced to comic relief at the expense of his brilliance. He used to be funny and brilliant, but this time they seemed to want him to be funny and inept.

Even though it was to me predictable that Daniel would be sent out of phase rather than bringing Sam back, I didn`t care. It wasn`t about "Oooh, now he`s out of phase!" but rather "Now how do they fix this?"

Teal'c: He was good in this episode as well, and it was more than just the "shoot and kill" thing that Teal'c ends up doing. He was really interacting with other SG-1 soilders, and that was a nice change of pace for me. I also really enjoy his chemistry with Mitchell. They are coming along nicely.

Agreed about the interaction with the other SG soldiers. Was nice to see that. One would think there`s probably more of that that we just don`t see, makes sense that there would be anyway with all the other people there. They don`t just work with their individual team, so it was nice to see.

Not sure how I feel about the two guns thing. I keep reading people either loving it or hating it, and all their reasons make sense to me. Maybe a compromise, like having one slung while he`s using the other, but having it ready on him would be mutually satisfactory?

Overall, I give this a five out of five. I did not dislike one single thing about the episode. I laughed out loud several times. Have not done that in a while. I think every character made them enjoyable and likeable. If I were a brand new viewer, this episode would have hooked me. It certainly held my interest, and would have had me asking lots of questions about character relationships and such.

Bring on next week.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As for the Sodan, I was shocked and VERY disappointed at the lameness of their demise. Didn`t like the Ori Zombie thing, and it just didn`t seem fair to me that after the setup at the end of Babylon for a later confrontation between Volnek and Cam all we got was this blow-up-the-Zombie business. It wasted Volnek IMO to throw him away like that. I`d have preferred a more intellectual philosophical (and physical) conflict. Or was that already resolved by Haikon`s acceptance of our help in dealing with the Prior? Still might have made for some fun personal antagonism from Volnek to Cam.

Also now we`ve lost the Sodan?
Another waste. I was looking forward to a much better use of that storyline. I couldn`t believe that these great warriors could be taken out by one Zombie, even if he`s one of their own. They couldn`t figure out that he was "cloaked" when he was doing his dirty work? Were none of the others ever cloaked when he was sneaking around killing people, or wouldn`t they have cloaked to hide and ambush whoever was doing this, and thus seen him and known who was responsible, and maybe been able to stop him?

Why did they even include the Sodan in this ep? There`s a connection between their cloaking technology and "Arthur`s Mantle", right? Okay, fine, but couldn`t they have made this connection without killing them all?
I`d have liked it better if they got to tell the Sodan about the device they found.

Also, are the Sodan out of phase when they`re cloaked? But they can`t be, or they wouldn`t be able to interact with (shoot) visible people, right? Or did they alter the original tech to be able to shoot visibles? Or is it just a gaping plot hole?

[Dani347]

Yeah, I enjoyed Sam in this one very much. Some people complained about her shouting at the people as if that would make them hear her, but lots of us have done similar things. I was LOL. And yeah, it must be frustrating to be right there and unable to tell them what she sees or to have them not see it.

I think it was a natural thing for her to do. Okay, obviously I've never been out of phase, but I think I would do the same thing, sort of subconsiously thinking that if I talked louder, maybe their subconscious would be more intune to me. Or, maybe not even that deep. But, you tend to react like they can hear you. It's not any more unreasonable than her talking to them at any volume in the first place.

Even though it was to me predictable that Daniel would be sent out of phase rather than bringing Sam back, I didn`t care. It wasn`t about "Oooh, now he`s out of phase!" but rather "Now how do they fix this?"

Thinking about that scene, I think it would have been better without the bright light effect. Don't have any special effect, just have the scene, then they all realise that Daniel went out of phase, too. I mean, even if the audience figured out what would happen beforehand, I think it would have fit the effect better if they didn't show that Daniel had been sent out of phase before the characters figured it out.

[Fargater]

Hey Sky - that's a great point. He's an idiot who makes trouble and Carter and Daniel are annoyed with him being on SG1, at least seem to be from their expressions, eye rolls, annoyed glances, smirks and comments, but they figure they should keep him because they are the most experienced and the best ones to get him, and any one else, including the SGC, out of the trouble he gets into. Now maybe I can stomach him knowing they are just keeping him with SG1 so he doesn't screw up the world or the galaxy or some poor other planet or galaxy with his arrogant and very bad moves.

I just wish they`d write him better. It`s not realistic to expect Sam and Daniel to want to put up with him or anyone who`s that much of a liability. I can`t help thinking of the beginning of S6 when Jack couldn`t find a competent replacement for Daniel. When the replacement candidate screwed up, he got rid of that person without a backward glance. Of course they`re not as snarky as Jack but they don`t have to be. It just would make sense for Sam, as the ranking military person, to bring it up that maybe this guy is not SG-1 material. I hate saying so, and don`t want to hate Cam, but they`ve dug him a really deep hole of idiocy and incompetence that it would really be hard to write him out of. I just can`t imagine them keeping anyone else around who displayed that much dangerous incompetence, and it`s not fair that they did this to Cam, but it just makes it that much harder to enjoy the show with him written this way. And no, he`s not always an idiot, but it`s too much to be believable that this character would still be around.

<<lightbulb goes on>>
Is he the military version of Dr. Lee?

[binkpmmc]

Hey you have to remember he’s read all of SG-1 reports when he was in the hospital so he knows that his team will save his a** when he gets in trouble. That's why he requested them in the first place because he'd probably be dead on any other team that wasn't good enough to save his a**. j/k LOL!!!

This is one of my problems with Mitchell - it, IMO, goes to the heart of why he is NOT a team player. He is arrogant and makes stupid decisions based on his belief that the BIg 3 will come to his rescue? That is horrible for a military man who is supposed to be a Lt. Colonel and so very experienced (so we are told - I am STILL waiting to SEE it). It is a disgrace that he will go off half-cocked on his one-man-band runs and EXPECT the BIG 3 to rescue him especially because several times he has gotten the BIG 3 into trouble with him and they are put in danger - bad, very, very bad attitude from Mitchell. He is dangerous and IMO gets more dangerous every week. I think the BIG 3 should let him get his a$$ kicked next time he goes off half-cocked and makes a dumb decision and get into trouble maybe then he will learn his lesson. However, with the quality, or lack thereof, of the writing this season, I highly doubt he will change or learn anything and he will continue to be an arrogant frat-boy wunderkind who does not realize there is no I in team and who creates problems.

To me it looks like the premise of this "new" show that was supposed to be "Stargate Command" is - the team has a mission or an issue to deal with, Mitchell, plot device that he is, does something stupid, gets himself and/or the BIG 3 into trouble, the BIG 3 save his sorry arse, and/or themselves, and also save the day on their original mission. voila - the weekly antics of Stargate Command (sci-fi cartoon complete with sci-fi caricatures and cliches galore). Part of the problem also stems from the fact that I still have yet to see what Mitchell contributes substantively to this team that they did not already possess as a team. The only thing I see him contributing is his bad decsion-making that gets himself and the BIG 3 into trouble therefore allowing the plot to move along - that is a very sad reason to have added this guy to the team since it makes him look so incompetent and stupid on a near weekly basis.

[Ziu]

Nice Episode. Looks like SG-1 is escalating for a great finish of Season 9.

[LORD MONK]

I liked it, although it could be called something else. They didn't even go look for it. They just talked about it. Good ep though. I am starting to like Mitch, that or he is growing on me and I am geting used to him.