Off The Grid (916)

[Dani347]

anyone not KNOW that sg-1 was gonna get rescued in the nick of time????? seriously, anyone?

That always happens, and because of that, I think that any episode where the team gets captured has to be about something else. Either it has to be part of the team captured and the rest worried (we might know all the time that SG1 will be rescued every time, but the team should always have a little worry for a missing teammate), or it should be about SG1 planning their own rescue. You still know that they'll get out, but it would be more about how the plan is going to work, or anticipating what mishaps in the plan, or even if the plan might fail, and they have to have a nick of time rescue. But, if the whole thing hinges on if they are going to get rescued, the reaction is going to pretty much be yours. There's no mystery.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Either it has to be part of the team captured and the rest worried (we might know all the time that SG1 will be rescued every time, but the team should always have a little worry for a missing teammate), or it should be about SG1 planning their own rescue.

I really liked the dramatic effect of the situation in Scorched Earth. Remember how much we all discussed and debated over Jack's decision to blow up the ship with Daniel on board?

We all knew that Daniel would survive, but that knowledge didn't diminish the drama of the moment(IMO).

Need, Prisoners, Out of Mind/Into the Fire, Beaneath the Surface, Beast of Burden, Desperate Measures, Abyss, the eps where Sam and then Daniel are captured by the humanform replicators, Stronghold; these eps prove that the PTB can pull off good dramatic capture scenes.

Whereas the whole SG-1 captive and in danger scenario in OTG was just plain... bleh.

[scarimor]

Now look at Mitchell, he’s not a filler for Jack he’s a brand new character on a revamped show so when the General asked him what his weakness and he say some times he can be a little impatient we have to be able to be this weakness and feel the affects on things that it causes.

It's not that Mitchell shouldn't be different and a character in his own right; it's that he's being written as a bad character - one that's utterly implausible in the position he holds. "A little impatient?" This was not mere impatience, this was reckless egotistical stupidity.

And let's not forget that Mitchell lied to his comrades when he decided to go into that compound. He told them that he was "just" going to find out what he could from the men inside, tell them their price was too high, and leave. But when he got inside he did nothing of the kind! Instead he immediately set about passing himself off as a big player in the narcotics business to set up a meet with Mr Big - something which even Mr Big's lackey (who wasn't the sharpest pencil in the box) saw through straight away.

If Mitchell had told Daniel, Sam and Teal'c the truth about what he was going to do when he got inside the compound, they could have come up with a better undercover plan.

As Carter asked when they were running for their lives - "What did you say to them?"

Not what he told them all he was going to say to them, that's for certain. Mitchell's deceit was reprehensible.

[FerCryinOutLoud!]

First time poster, long time reader. Some of you people confuse me. Those of you who do not like the Ori as bad guys want more Gou'ld. So what do you get? Ba'al! Lots, and lots of Ba'al, i might add. And, Nerus if you're in to that sort of thing.

Then some of you complain that SG-1 doesn't go off world enough. Well correct me if i'm mistaken, but they've been going on off-world missions a lot lately.

Then some of you complain that the team is split up too much, and there's not enough team interaction as a result. Well, the last half of season nine, they sure have been acting like a team to me. They've been working together to accomplish a goal, just like the good ole' days! This episode is a perfect example of such improvements. To me it's starting to feel like SG-1 again.

Some of you may hate Mitchell. I myself was a Jack O'Neil fan, he's a big reason i fell in love with SG-1. But, i really think they're still feeling around as to how they want to cement Mitchel as a character and team leader. Do i think it's stupid that he goes off by himself, ahead of the team to kill Jaffa by himself, or wisecrack himself and the team into captivity? Yes, i do! But, i think this is all apart of a character arc for Mitchel.

Lots of people on this forum judge and complain what's going to happen or how something happened before the season is complate and before they can see how it will turn out. It's a story! You have to wait, and see how things turn out. Then you can decide whether or not you want to complain about how it went.

I think Mitchel will turn out in the end, you just have to wait and see. This is coming from an O'Neil fan! We O'Neil fans are very passionate people. Personally i'm glad Stargate is able to move on without RDA. It's some big shoes to fill. I think TPTB IS going to do a good job filling them in, too. You just have to wait and let them figure out how they will subtantiate the character of Mitchel. He's not Jack O'Neil, so you can't really treat him that way or use the charcter of Jack O'Neil as your point of reference as to what the Mitchel character should be like. That's not to say Mitchel could not use a little work on his leadership skills though.

Personally i like Mitchel as a part of the team but i really believe Carter, or, if military protocol would permit, Teal'c should be the leader. But, i lean a little more towards Carter as team leader at this point. She's just too smart not to be team leader, not to mention she has team leader talents and know how. I can understand though, why TPTB used Mitchel as team leader. Amanda Tapping was on maternity leave and they needed to establish Ben Browder as Mitchel to the Stargate fans.

For whomever said that killing Ba'al every three seconds, loses it's impact. I agree with you. They should make killing one of the coolest bad guys on Stargate mean a little more everytime they kill him. But, i think in the end killing him every three seconds will play into things later on and does serve a purpose, otherwise they wouldn't kill him every three seconds. And, whose to say Ba'al isn't crankin' out more Ba'als on an assembly line?

I miss Anubis, he was creepy. Creepy bad guys are the best, in my opinion. That's why i have high hopes for the Ori and can't wait to see who they truly are.

This concludes my first post. I hope my opinions didn't make me any enemies on my first time. I hope to get to know you all! Thanks!

[GhostPoet]

Wow I'm kind of depressed after reading some of the posts on this thread. I guess Season 10 will be the last season for SG-1, and I'll have to actually go spend money on entertainment on Fridays.

Come on guys it wasn't that bad. I guess it was nice to get three years of quaility Sci-fi on Fridays. SG-1 We'll miss ya when you're gone.

P.S. I also like Enterprise and look where that got me.

the continual forum goers are good at analyzing entertainment to an insanely amount...and then complaining a lot. Don't go by what forum goers say.

[plot mechanic]

"Ethon" was an outstanding episode. "Off the Grid" was so bad as to make me wonder if there was some behind the scenes catastrophe that caused this turkey. The contrast is so astonishing as to merit special comment.

(There may well be nothing original here, but one drawback to a populous bbs is the difficulty in following discussions. Besides, actually writing helps me clarify my thinking.)

Sorry to say that "Off the Grid" is indeed very badly written. Let me count the ways.

1.) The flashback was unneeded. Anybody on any planet gaping at their disappearing gate could have established a hook for the episode. Did the FX for the original first act not come back from the lab on time? Saving film time by showing the same scenes twice saves money, too. Unfortunately, it's boring.

2.) Mitchell's initial escape from the thug is ridiculous. True, many SG1 escapes are, but throw us some scrap of explanation!

3.) Nowadays it is poliitically correct to pretend that torture is sometimes necessary to obtain vital information. It is not of course: Torture is never a reliable interrogation method because people will say anything that the torturer wants to hear. Our heroes got off the hook much too lightly for the situation they were in.

4.) I've seen "Homecoming" and I'm planning on watching it again tomorrow evening. The fortuitious salvation from a just in the nick of time tranporter worked there.

5.) A piece of cake is not a subspace beacon. Nor is there any way that Landry could count on Nerus immediately using the booby trapped equipment, nor for that matter that he would immediately go to the ship Baal was using to steal gates, as opposed to some refuge nor even that the Odyssey would be in range of Baal's ship.

6.) Baal's motives remain obscure. Why not steal gates to have multiple access points for Earth itself, either for escape routes or for mass entry of troops? Or for blowing up suns a la Carter? (My first and second thoughts respectively.) How can he not expect that an independent gate network would only protect until the Ori beach head was established, whereupon ships would come? Most unlikely of all, why attack the Jaffa/humans while the Ori threat remains? He said exactly the opposite in "Stronghold." He made sense in that episode, not this one.

For me personally, the general uninterestingness of the Lucian Alliance detracted as well. Additionally, in my opinion it is now official: Landry is the putz. His hardass act may be more realistic than the lovable Hammond but there is no contest as to which one I like more.

If it wasn't for some humorous lines, I'd think this was fan filmed. The only question is whether our heroes will win, but that was a given, so really there is no question at all. (That is the problem with personal jeopardy stories in an ongoing series.) The only real point of interest is why AT is showing her cleavage so much lately. I can only think that either breast feeding makes it hard not to, or that it is a strategic distraction from a postpartum waistline.

By contrast, "Ethon" was superb. After that high point in a strong run of episodes, the diasappointment is pretty strong. Hoping for a return to form next week (even though previews look like cheap FX may be a problem.)

pm

[warmbeachbrat]

So the main characters make a few mistakes, and the excuses Mitchell's current average of around 1 mistake per episode? Not to mention most of the mistakes the others made were really only obviously bad in hindsight. Almost everything Mitchell has done to screw up was a mistake from the beginning. He's a hothead and unable to work well with his team. He shouldn't have any kind of leadership role.

One mistake per episode? Employing a wee bit of hyperbole there....

Let's grant the mistakes already noted (although, I don't consider the ones pointed out for Avalon and Babylon mistakes), that is only four out of fifteen episodes (I'm not remembering mistakes from Avalon 2, Origin, The Ties that Bind, The Powers that Be, Beachhead, Ex Deus Machina, The Fourth Horseman 1, The Fourth Horseman 2, Ripple Effect, and Ethon).

I DO remember thinking in the first couple of seasons, that Daniel's actions sometimes led to adverse circumstances, but chalked it up to his curious nature. I certainly didn't mark down every instance and add it against his character.

It just struck me that this whole debate about Mitchell reminds me of that episode where Kinsey is lambasting SG-1 to world leaders in an effort to show how dreadful and dangerous they were (Disclosure). Lucky for them they had Thor to show up on their behalf; too bad Cam doesn't have someone similar.

And is it just me, or does anyone else sometimes hear in your head, "Mitchell, Mitchell, Mitchell" in the same tone as "Marcia, Marcia, Marcia"?

[timdalton007]

This was a pretty good episode.

The Bad Things:

I never really understood the whole "addictive corn" plot line and how it affected the rest of the story. I agree that sending Mithcell in as a drug dealer was a bad idea (not just in the episode but as a plot idea to begin with). The torture sequence was a bit disapointing and the escape was a bit predictable.

The Good Things:

I was all but cheering when I saw the Odyssey! After the destruction of the Promethus, I'm glad Earth still has soemthing to defend itself with. There were good performances from everyone in the episode which more then made up for the weak plot of the episode's first half. I think it is safe to say that Ba'al probably won't be making a return and that was a nice end to the episode. The whole stealing Stargates plot was a good plot idea and I am glad it was the main focus of the story after we giot passed the whole corn plot.

I give Off The Grid a 3/5

timdalton007

[ChillinTheMost]

Well, I'm easy. I liked it. Not my favorite, but generally a fun episode.

I didn't think Mitchell was so bad in this episode, but then I'm a Mitchell/Browder fan, so I'm sure some of you will just shrug off what I have to say due to that.

I guess one of the main Mitchell complaints is that he was told to keep a low profile and he didn't exactly do that, but, seriously, what would that have accomplished? They could report back that corn/kazza/whatever was grown and transported in carts to 'someplace'. They pretty much knew all that already from the previous team's report.

You don't send your number one team to watch from afar - they had to do something more. I would have liked it if the others would have supported him more, as in, "Yeah, this is getting us nowhere. Let's try something else." And then gone along with the drug-buying plan. They could have still had the comedy they wanted to inject with "None of you look like drug smugglers" and Mitchell calling Sam, "Mary Poppins" - which I thought was cute - he certainly didn't mean any disrespect, and let's face it, for all that we know Samantha has done [blowing up suns and whatnot], she still looks refreshingly sweet and innocent. Besides her reaction was cute. I like the Sam/Mitchell dynamic.

I'm not sure what the writers were going for by making it seem like Mitchell was a rogue member of the team, but it isn't going to help him be accepted by those fans still forming opinions. And there was really no need for it. I wish the writers had left out the entire "low profile" scenerio. --I also wish they had left out the reaction shots that made the rest of the team seem exasperated with Mitchell. While they may have been somewhat exasperated with him before, it never seemed like they were actually upset or offput by it, so I don't know why the writers or directors or whoever decided to go that path this time.

Anyway, I think what Mitchell did was necessary or they wouldn't have gathered any information and Landry shouldn't have handcuffed them with the "low profile" order. Using your number one team should pretty much mean you are authorizing them to take an aggressive stance.

[I'm not arguing whether or not Mitchell disobeyed orders, just that he didn't have to be written/directed like that.]

[Fargater]

I kinda know what you mean- he is a bit too much at times. But tbh I'm not sure where they're taking his character. I mean, he does make all these wisecracks, but especially in this episode I noticed that it annoyed Sam and Daniel too. So they might be going somewhere with it. I don't know.

That thought crossed my mind as well, that they`re going somewhere with it. But I have to ask why they`d even want to go there? The only logical outcome would be to get rid of Cam, unless he has some revelation that changes his behavior and shapes up to become useful. To which I honestly feel at this point "So what?" They don`t have time to nurture/fix somebody`s personality flaws. They`re SG-1. They need the best, ready mentally and physically to do the job. The way they`re writing Cam he shouldn`t even be considered as a recruit to the program, never mind a member or leader of SG-1.

Like I`ve already said I`ve defended his wisecracks in previous eps, but they didn`t seem out of place to me then. He was acting like a big kid in this one, like when he was all jazzed about the firefight on Ba`al`s ship as though they were all just playing a video game or something rather than actually in harm`s way. No wonder Sam and Daniel were annoyed.

I wonder when his inefficiencies will be brought up at a debriefing. It was hinted at that his recklessness got his dying friend into his predicament, and the friend covered for him. Why would Sam, Daniel, or Teal`c feel any reason to do the same?

But I recently re-watched season 1, and there were a lot of times it looked like Sam was about to crack up at one of Jack's lines. So it's definately a changed reaction.

I also notice the reactions to Jack`s lines in the earlier eps. I often wonder if RDA is ad-libbing some of that and it`s just an honest reaction from AT. Either way, it always works when Jack says something funny because you can always see that underneath the joke(s) he has a grasp of the seriousness of the situation. He never comes across as some kid out playing shoot-em-up with his friends, which unfortunately Cam has. Sam definitely has good reason to be annoyed.

Another thing about this ep- I actually really liked Landry in it. He got to show some more good qualities which I Hammond had too (such as actually going out to Area 51 himself and making a plan to track Nerus). He's a good character when he's not stalking his daughter around the base.

Hmmm. Usually I can take Landry or leave him, but you`ve got me thinking more about him. I agree.

[Jace021903]

Overall I enjoyed the episode, but I had the same nitpicks as others did.

I "heart" Landry more and more as the season goes on. I'm glad he got some good stuff to do. I think Nerus is an interesting Goa'uld because he is not really like the others that we have met throughout the series.

I liked that the team was together for most of the episode--always a plus for me.

The problem that I am having is this: why are they turning Mitchell into such a immature hothead? I really liked him in the beginning, but I really wonder where they are going with the character after the past few episodes. They obviously consider Mitchell to be the lead character since he is the only one consistently driving story, so why make him look so bad?

Actually, I wish the action was a bit more equally spread out among the four leads. The three original characters stand around a lot and react to Mitchell. And Mitchell, written, this way is not working for me.

[ChillinTheMost]

A few more comments about things said:

Someone said Mitchell should have called Sam instead of Daniel to help with the shooting. I wonder why either of them [Sam and/or Daniel] are put in harm's way EVER. To have them killed would be a major blow to the Stargate program. Maybe Sam more than Daniel now, depending on where the mythology is going. I would be surprised if, in the real world, someone with Sam's brain would be allowed on any offworld missions. Not that I'm not glad it's written this way, because I love Sam involved in the action, but if you're going to argue that Mitchell should have called Sam, I would argue that Sam shouldn't even be there risking her life and knowledge - or, at the least, Mitchell and Teal'c should be forming a shield for her whenever trouble starts.

Landry still feeding Nerus while seemingly not getting information: At some point, Landry decided he wasn't going to get any information directly from Nerus, so he had to make Nerus think that he [Nerus] had bamboozled Landry in order for Nerus to unknowingly take the tracking device to Ba'al's ship. Nerus already thought he was smarter than everyone else, so all Landry had to do was play into his hand and pretend like he believed Nerus was on the up-and-up and let him go and track him. Worked like a charm.


Oh, yeah, I think I'm one of the few people that thinks it's fun for Ba'al to keep popping up and dying. I'm easily amused, I guess.

[Dani347]

First time poster, long time reader. Some of you people confuse me. Those of you who do not like the Ori as bad guys want more Gou'ld. So what do you get? Ba'al! Lots, and lots of Ba'al, i might add. And, Nerus if you're in to that sort of thing.

Then some of you complain that SG-1 doesn't go off world enough. Well correct me if i'm mistaken, but they've been going on off-world missions a lot lately.

Then some of you complain that the team is split up too much, and there's not enough team interaction as a result. Well, the last half of season nine, they sure have been acting like a team to me. They've been working together to accomplish a goal, just like the good ole' days! This episode is a perfect example of such improvements. To me it's starting to feel like SG-1 again.

Well, first of all, like you said, some people complain about each of these things. So that doesn't mean if they put in an episode with Ba'al it's going to make everyone happy, because not everyone wanted the Goa'uld. Some people have been upset about the team being split up, so theoretically, putting the team together would please them, but it doesn't mean it'll please those who had a different problem.

Plus, it's not that simple that you just add in the componets and it makes a good story. I know that for some people it sounds like people are never satisfied, but if a person wants team episodes, it's not merely enough to say, "Okay, this episode the team is going to be together for the majority of the episode." Or, "okay, you want to see more of the Goa'uld, so we'll throw Ba'al in" No. It's like someone wants a cake, and they get a few eggs, some flour, some frosting. All the components are there, but that doesn't mean it's what people wanted. Of course, for some people, the components did blend in right and they liked it. Which is fine. But, for others, just because the bare bones were there doesn't automatically make it a good episode.

Lots of people on this forum judge and complain what's going to happen or how something happened before the season is complate and before they can see how it will turn out. It's a story! You have to wait, and see how things turn out. Then you can decide whether or not you want to complain about how it went.

By the same token, a lot of people judge and praise before they know what's going to happen. "I can't wait until next week." "This season is shaping up to be the best yet." "I read the spoilers and the season finale is going to rock!" (I'm not quoting directly, just giving examples) If people should wait to complain, they should wait to praise.

For whomever said that killing Ba'al every three seconds, loses it's impact. I agree with you. They should make killing one of the coolest bad guys on Stargate mean a little more everytime they kill him. But, i think in the end killing him every three seconds will play into things later on and does serve a purpose, otherwise they wouldn't kill him every three seconds. And, whose to say Ba'al isn't crankin' out more Ba'als on an assembly line?

They should just let Ba'al escape a few times. We know another Ba'al is going to pop up again. So, why not just let it be that this Ba'al gets away, instead of killing him?


Fargater

I wonder when his inefficiencies will be brought up at a debriefing. It was hinted at that his recklessness got his dying friend into his predicament, and the friend covered for him.

That might be a good idea. I don't want Mitchell court marshalled or kicked off the team. (And, I still am completely ignorant of the military, so I don't know if he warrants those actions, just naming the most severe ones I could think of) but if this is his Achilles heel, it should be treated as such. As a part of his character development, even something as small as a stern word from Landry would be good.

[AGateFan]

But you can argue equally how all of the characters have screwed up plenty of times if you go nitpicking at the episodes looking for things.

O’Neil-shouldn't have left fifth in the time Dilation field on Halla.

Carter-Shouldn't have dialed through a collapsing sun to get a lock, or trusted Repli-Carter.

Teal'c-Shouldn't have taken "That damn Jaffa revenge thing" so far, and last but not least.

Daniel-The Unas Theft...(Beast of Burden, need I say more).

Jonas-The coup on Kelowna over the "wacky naquada"

See, the truth is that every main character except maybe General Hammond and Doc. Frazier has put their lives and the teams lives of the team in danger due to rash action. Like jack said-"Its what we do."

Wow there are lots of examples you could have chosen ... anything in Gemini for one ... but of the examples you gave.

I did not see O’Neill’s choice to be wrong. In fact I think he was the only one who has ever thought clearly about the human form replicators.

I definitely did not see Daniel trying to free Unas from slavery as a bad choice. Plus he didn’t go off and do it himself. He convinced his commanding officer it was the proper course of action.. They came up with a plan and executed it. The failure in the plan was O’Neill’s non-commitment to the military action as well as the unexpected revelation that Chaka would not leave without freeing his companions. Those are sentient beings and should never have been enslaved. SG-1 as a team came up with a plan to free them, it just didnt work because of a few unexpected circumstance and a fairly intelligent enemy. (fat guy was annoying but he was pretty sharp)

The Teal'c thing, yea he should have went through the gate sooner and NOT pursued the glider as long as he did especially when he was told not to by his commanding officer, so shame on him.

The Carter ones... it looks like you combined 3. The collapsing sun? If that is throwing the gate into the sun that was a tokra plan. The dialing a gate through a sun, thus bypassing the Stargate Safety protocols was stupid but no one knew the outcome and that was the next address on the mission list, her job was to establish a lock. The Replicarter one... there is no excuse for anyone’s behavior in that ep, it was just a bad, bad, bad, poorly written stupid episode.

Jonas most trusted teacher told him his government was developing a WMD to use against someone else on his planet, which would have ended in planetary destruction. What do you expect him to do? He didn’t go running off by himself, ramboing it up to save the day, he reported the issue to his commanders who came up with a plan and ultimately determined Jonas's friend and some "issues". Not sure what trouble SG-1 really got in with that ep either.


You are right, there have been occasions when every main character has done something fairly stupid to cause the team to get into trouble but I have never seen anyone (besides maybe early season niave Daniel) quite as good at it as Mitchell.

[Martouf01]

hey i was watching Off the Grid on Friday, a couple things jumped out at me. this was probably answered in another thread but there is too much to search through:
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1) How did Mitchell get freed from the drug dealers?

2) Before sg-1 was beamed off the planet to the Odyssey, they were in the seated position, but once they reached the odyssey, they were standing up. shouldn't they have re-materialized in the seated positions?

~martouf