Off The Grid (916)

[Albion]

and i still don't quite understand how they were able to close two totally separate entities in one body, especially since harlan couldn't quite pull that off with his copies

Well, firstly, Harlan made robotic copies of SG1, not clones. And, secondly, he did make it work. He made a mistake with his first copy of Teal'c because he failed to understand that there were two separate entities in the one body and how they worked. But once he realised his mistake, he fixed it and prodoced a fully functioning robotic copy of Teal'c. As evidenced by the fact that robot Teal'c was part of SG1 later on in Double Jeopardy and working just fine.

Reserving judgment on the episode as I won't see it till Tuesday. Not expecting much from the photos - looks like a good excuse to put the guys in sexy leather, since Vala's not around to do it for them. But the comments have been interesting. Might end up being pleasantly surprised.

Or not.

Albion

[binkpmmc]

Did you see the episode? SG-1 was together for 90% of it.

Together - yes. Team - Nope didn't see any of that, in fact I saw Daniel and Sam ready to let Mitchell have it at several points, including the briefing room, the frist time they speak with Lucian. Team - far from it IMO. Being together 100% of the time does not make this a team. At this point I would rather see them apart - Mitchell off on his own getting into trouble and the Big 3 together acting as if they know and care about each other.

[JUNIOR]

They could have some building operations in Antarctica. I mean they have an F-302 base there,(Lost City, Avalon pt.1) so why not?

Possible, but incredibly doubtful. Antartica is neutral ground and the other countries have enough problems with us building and operating Battleships exclusively with out also building them in Antartics. Plus in order for that they would have to ship all the raw materials through the SGC and establish the entire fabrication process from scratch.

I see your point, but they wouldn't have to ship all of the raw materials through the SGC they could do it via the Daedalus or they could have done it with the Prometheus.

They can also have a base off world,

Same problems as Antartica, they would have to completely build the facilities to proccess the raw materials and fabricate the parts and all of the tech stuff has to pass through the SGC creating a bottle neck.

Again they could do it via the Daedalus or Prometheus with beaming tech.

and I don't remember them saying that it has to take four years to build a Daedalus class ship.

They havn't. My point was that it takes 4 years to build an Nimitz-class aircraft carrier with the full unclassified support of the government and private contractors and fabrication facilities. You have multiple plants and companies contributing to the manufacture and construction. The Daedalua-class ships are all built in secret and all the components have to be manufactured in secret, which means you don't have dozens of defense contractors contributing various components. So it should take even longer.

Actually they could have dozens of defense contractors contributing various components that was the premise behind Covenant (season 8), and Desperate Measures (season 5) the Gov. was contracting top secret projects out the private companies.

From my recollection they built the Prometheus in early season six. Who’s to say they didn't start building more after they completed the Prometheus.

We don't know when they started construction on the Prometheus, but since Area 51 was working on the X-301 all the way back in season 2 it was likely in development and construction for many years before we actually saw it and Im sure they did start building other ones right away after the Prometheus was field tested, but that would mean they had the Daedalus built and operation in less then 2 years and the Odessy in less then three.

True but that was their prototype which could have had a lot of trail and error in its creation. Also we don't know if the Asgard was as involved (besides installing shields after it was almost done) in the production Prometheus as they were in the with the production of Daedalus and the Odyssey. They could had cut our production time in half with all their knowledge of ship building.

We know from multiple episodes that they have been prospecting for naquada and trinium on many worlds and set up several mining operations, but all of it has to be mined by hand and brought back one load at a time, that is a very slow rate of raw materials flowing in.

Not necessarily if you watch the end of Enemy Mine Daniel and Colonel what’s his name discuss how they can teach the Unas to mine using there mining equipment, and who know how many other mines they've started since.

We know from the episode "Prometheus" that the reasearch and development of Prometheus' hyperdrive alone cost 2 billion dollars, It is safe to guess the entire ships, fabrication through assemply costs easily over 10 billion dollars.

That was research and development now that they have a viable hyper drive developed it might not cost as much because they have a base model. Besides, who do you think makes money, the U.S. Gov. They have literally multi-trillion dollar spending limits you really think money would be an issue. Daedalus class battle ships don't fall under SGC budget (The Ties That Bind) There no telling how much the senate of appropriations is shelling out the ship project now that the SGC's budget was cut 2/3rds.

[Dani347]

Hmm, the Mary Poppins reference. When I heard it, it didn't strike me as condescending. I don't think I'd believe Sam as a drug dealer. And, this is not a comparision between her and Mitchell. But, I can see other people seeing it that way. But, I don't see it as sexist, even now. I mean, if I thought Mitchell said it because Sam is a woman, and that was the main strike against her not being believable as a drug dealer/trader, I'd be screaming sexism at the top of my lungs. Yeah, if they were going to write a wisecrack in, they didn't have to use Mary Poppins as a reference, but it still didn't seem to me that he felt that her being a woman was why she wouldn't cut it.

[MoebiusStrip]

Oh hey now that is something I wanted to give props to the show on. They finally decided to use PDTs. I have always wondered when they would get around to that and have always thought SG personel should have them... I think you can even use that as a double security to the GDO. You get the code and confirm that SG-1s PDTs are nearby.


PDT = Personal Data Transmitters (the term used in Aliens for the implanted tracking devices in the marines.)

That is a not bad idea at all. But my only concern is if it will cause an long term effect on the team, cause I am pretty sure that it does cause the 'PDTs' produce some sort of electro-magnetic field around them...such as cell phones.

[Amanda Eros]

Now here I have to disagree. The woman who first walked into the briefing room 8 or 9 years ago would not have put up with that. She should not now.

Me too. Sam went from being Dorathy to Mary Poppins. I just think that he called her that because he's never seen her in hand to hand combat. Though it has been eight or nine years since we've seen it too. She's more of a Bat girl or Princess Leigha.

[Elfinwood]

No, that is not an example of tell and not show. ANd how is Sam rigging the Stargate "telling instead of showing"? Telling is when they tell us what happened without showing us. With freeing Mitchell, they never told us how they did it, they just showed the result -- that he was free. Same with Sam rigging the Stargate. She said she had an idea, and then we saw the result. Neither of these things bothered me.

Maybe, because, back in seasons 1 thru (at least)7, they used to show us?

[Uber]

No pithy, amusing preamble to my post this week. Just flat out frustration and disappointment over what the show has become, and to what lengths it's being ruined each week. If you're a fan of Camshaft Mitchell or Ben Browder, you should probably skip this review.

Off the Grid had enough promise to be a really good, really solid episode. Crushingly, it was reduced to mind numbingly peurile camp, robbing the story and just about the entire show of any depth. I find myself seriously questioning why I'm still tuning in for this tripe, and why I continue to subject myself to the utter decimation of what up until now has been a standout show.

I'd say that I don't know where to begin, except that I soooo do. It's with Mitchell. My God, this is one awful, terrible character. Cameron Mitchell is completely ruining the show for me. I actively, passionately dislike the character. His arrival in the stargate universe has brought about an utter contempt for logic and sanity in favor of the next cool shot, the next cringeworthy one-liner, the next bouncy action sequence where he gets to fly through the air and tumble along the ground. In the nine years I've watched Stargate SG-1 I have never actively hated a character. Never. But I do hate Mitchell.

It is completely implausible for this man to be associated in any way, shape, or form with the SGC. There is no way that he is assigned to go offworld. Ever. And there is absolutely no way that he leads any group of individuals. Not pilots, not ground troops, and certainly not SG-1. Disregarding orders, acting like a moron, yucking it up with whoever crosses his line of sight--every time he's on screen I'm just waiting for the next stupid, campy thing to occur. All seriousness is sucked out of the show when he's around, and it's killing SG-1. Worst of all, I don't see a way around it. This is obviously the character that TPTB have created. And Ben Browder is signed for another year. But if there was ever a character that needed to be scuttled for the sake of a show, it's Cam Mitchell. The character is all over the map and the inconsistencies are terribly jarring. Worst of all, when the writing is consistent it portrays Mitchell as a unthinking, joke-cracking, adventure-at-all-cost-seeking child. The character is totally unbelievable in a position of authority. Who would have guessed that Felger would be the model for the new character in season nine?

I'm going to stop now, and try to talk about the actual episode itself, but warn all who have made it this far that my increduality and disappointment in the character of Mitchell may rear its ugly head at any moment. Anyway, the episode did have other problems. What's with the teaser? I'm game for most things when it comes to the structure of an episode, but the teaser served absolutely no purpose at all. Was the episode so short time-wise that all you could do was reuse the same sequence twice? I'd love to be enlightened on this one. Does anybody have a valid reason why the episode was constructed this way? Please, tell me I'm missing the significance of it all. I'm begging here. Was this all because TPTB couldn't bear the ignominy of showing Cam being rescued by Carter, Teal'c, and Daniel? Was it because we wouldn't believe that Cam didn't get himself killed in this instance? I'm supposed to just imagine this rescue on my own? The exclusion of scenes like Mitchell's rescue by SG-1 is exactly why Cameron just feels like baggage for the team.

Also going in the "problems" category for the episode has to be the jail scenes with Nerus. No, that's not entirely true. It's just the last jail scene with Landry and Nerus. For me, it was just another case of the writers and directors not knowing when enough is enough. I get it, Nerus likes food. It was damn amusing in Beachhead. It was momentarily funny here in Off The Grid. But whose ever idea it was to have food flung everwhere really lost it. The scene was serious, and Maury Chakin did a great job delivering the "I'm full" line. But the way the set was dressed completely undermined everything else that was going on. I can't help but think that this is the kind of thing that Mike Greenberg used keep reined in. Contrary to the producers protestations otherwise, I firmly believe that someone has got to start getting their asses out of the production offices and be on set during filming. That's right, the show needs an on set producer; it particularly needs one when Peter DeLuise is directing. And just to be fair, I hated the same joke in Atlantis' The Tower a week ago. It's just not funny.

Now, contrary to what many of you probably believe, there was a lot I did like in this episode. Carter and Daniel, in particular, made this episode work in the limited capacity that it did. Their constant annoyance and frustration with Mitchell was played well and was completely appropriate. It was a relief seeing that I wasn't the only person reacting that way to good old Shaft. Seriously, the joke wasn't that funny to begin with that it bears constant repeating; Carter's exaggerated rolling of her eyes summed up exactly how I felt. But it does make me wonder what the hell the writers are shooting for with Mitchell. Likewise, the closing scene where Carter and Daniel leave Mitchell on the ramp ogling his beloved weapon, waxing poetically about how happiness really is a warm gun once again echoed my own sentiments regarding Cameron's latest buffoonery.

Ooh, and then there's Cliff Simon. What a great performance. His Ba'al continues to be one of the few bright spots this season. Ba'al was truly Goa'uldish in this one, and it's the little things that do it for him. Striding down the halls of his mothership, talking of his "court", and trying to rebuild his empire all serve to subtley play up the snake in his head and hearken back to the days when the show knew where it was going. His silent, powerful interaction contrasted nicely with Nerus' over the top blithering, and really reinforced Nerus' underling nature. Is it wrong of me to be more interested in Ba'al's machinations than the Ori's? Though, killing off more Ba'al clones was unnecessary; for my money we really need to encounter the "real" Ba'al next time. And I'd have also liked to see Ba'al get the better of the Lucian Alliance. It would have been a nice nod to the fact that the Goa'uld are still a formidable enemy, and that it takes more than a few motherships to control the galaxy. I hope that's where they're going with the Lucian Alliance and that somewhere down the line we'll see Ba'al usurp their territory, spy network, and fleet in a return to power.

And I think most fans will agree that the last part of Off the Grid, where SG-1 assaults a mothership, is the part that played the best. Apparently, they can function as a team, they just choose not to most of the time. For as much fun as it was to see Teal'c and Mitchell defending their position, it was the scenes of Carter and Daniel tagging the gates that did it for me. I loved how once the shooting started neither Carter nor Daniel hesitated. The same goes for Teal'c when he simply stepped into the hallway and began the altercation. These three know exactly what they're doing and what needs to be done. Just imagine if they didn't have to spend the majority of the show saving Cam's ass all the time.

Meh, I'm done with this. I'm just depressing myself thinking about how good the show used to be. The Scourge is next week. Any chance we could just get Daniel, Teal'c, and Sam in this one?

I swear, you and I share a brain sometimes. I think I disagree with you a scant 1 or 2% of the time but with this review...seriously...stop reading my thoughts.

I can only add a couple of things. Firstly...TWO DAYS??? I thought they had been there for a few hours...tops. Their faces were a bit bruised but they certainly didn't look like 2 days worth of beatings had occurred, unless they were hit once every 8 hours or so. But then, that would explain why they all were sitting straight up, not tired at all, and amazingly in the exact same position. For 2 days. Without eating or relieving themselves or sleeping. For 2 days. And again, I look at Sam and she exudes the calm leadership traits I'd expect in, you know, a leader. I also have to wonder if the same thoughts crossing my mind are crossing hers...which is, why on earth is Mitchell even here? They can get themselves in and out of trouble quite nicely, thank you very much, without having to worry about the "new guy"...Mr. "I thought it was a light switch"...constantly making things even worse.

So they're supposed to stay low and their "leader" instead poses as a dealer of hinky corn and gets himself and the others in trouble. And they trusted him and his idea...WHY? When has he ever displayed any kind of real leadership abilities with regard to formulating a strategy on a mission such as this? Hopefully, this taught the others that he should NEVER be allowed to suggest anything again...ever...as his first real plan (which kinda completely ignored the whole "keeping a low profile" thing) had them lined up for execution. I had hoped they'd learn from Stronghold that his impetuousness and failure to learn from his mistakes would get them all into trouble. So, why again do they trust him for anything?

Seriously. I really want to know. Why on earth do they have any trust in this guy? At all? Why on EARTH is he allowed to continue to serve on the team in any capacity? At least when things go wrong when Sam's leading, it's a result of a wrench thrown into a typically well thought out plan. With Mitchell...well, he just flies by the seat of his pants. And for anyone who says that Jack did too, may I remind you that Jack was black ops with TONS of experience on the ground and therefore had the instincts to go with his gut. Mitchell? Not so much. But we do know he has a terrible wit full of cheesy one-liners that fall way flat, that he's impetuous to a serious fault, that he never seems to learn from his mistakes and doesn't seem to mind putting his team in danger with one of his hair-brained schemes. Ever. So I say again...why on EARTH do they trust him? He should be transferred back to flying jets and F302s and stay the heck away from all things round and kawooshing.

The other thing I'd like to add is: Death to ALL Shaft-isms! His need to crack bad one-liners is groanworthy. I had hoped Ethon (where I didn't feel like throwing things at the tv during his scenes for once) was the beginning of the tide turning to give a more meaningful role for the character. He didn't "not fit" as much as usual...and for the briefest of moments, I had hope. Sadly, Off the Grid proved me wrong and I'm back to strongly disliking the character. Seriously...I've never disliked a character as much as I dislike him and that's saying something.

In other words, Mitchell is seriously killing the show for me too...and frankly I would have preferred it if Sam had smacked him in the back of the head for the Marry Poppins crack and then say "Well that was refreshing" a la First Commandment. Mary Poppins???? She's been a Tok'ra, tortured, been to hell, died, resurrected, blown up a sun and killed gods. Mary Poppins indeed.

But then again she does make a mean souffle...so there's that.

Man do I miss Jack.

[Elfinwood]

I am a huge Stargate fan .Therefore I always try to see the best in an episode. The best thing about this episode was the Mary Poppins crack. I think that Amanda, Chris, and Michael, did a good job with what they had to work with. I will watch it again to see if it will grow on me, because I really want the show to get back what it has lost. I am searching for things to like about this episode. I did like the end when Sam and Daniel seemed fed up. I really want to see some emotions back in the show, some depth of feeling, something. Where were the looks of horror when their Teammates were being knocked around? It breaks my heart that I don’t feel the emotional bonds that the team once had. I know my mind is always wondering back to Jack and Sam, maybe if they answered that question (in a positive way) I would be able to accept BB better. Now all I feel is resentment. Maybe if those questions were answered I would feel free to like the new episodes better.
I am truly trying! That’s my opinion.

I agree with you. And I really like BB. I loved him in FS. Things are not clicking on this show, but the cast need not take all of the heat. I see it everywhere...the writing, the directing, the sound, the lighting, the sets. Only the special effects have been consistently good. It started last year and the answer from TPTB was a limited budget and RDA's schedule. Not so this year, and I don't see a change for the better. And why did they hire a big name actor to play the base commander anyway? The role takes screen time away from the team. RDA's position on the show necessitated the change last year and TPTB said that was the reason for so many base and on world stories. Without RDA, why not go back to the lesser supporting role that DD portrayed as Hammond. Show us more team. Now I feel like I'm watching Landry and "those other" guys.

[scarimor]

Oh it could have been so good...

Sadly the visual continuity errors were cringe-worthy, the action blankety-blank of Mitchell's rescue was dire, and the representation of the relative passage of time between the various locations was really up the swannie. Sitting on a bench for two days - yes, that is what it looked like. Guys... if you're running out of money, just put a filter on the camera and light a fire in the background for your next shot - that way you can easily and cheaply make it look like at least one night's going by.

Jeez.

But they looked lovely in leather. Especially Carter, who is so very hot in a collar :ahem: :fans self:

[scarimor]

Now here I have to disagree. The woman who first walked into the briefing room 8 or 9 years ago would not have put up with that. She should not now.

I was hoping Sam would punch him for the Mary Poppins crack. Yeah it was funny... but seeing Cam sprawl would've been even funnier.

[golfbooy]

I swear, you and I share a brain sometimes. I think I disagree with you a scant 1 or 2% of the time but with this review...seriously...stop reading my thoughts.

You know what? You can keep the brain. I apparently won't be needing it if the show keeps up like this. It just keeps getting in the way.

Edited to Add: Cripes, I just reread this and boy does it sound egotistical. Ah well, I suppose we've all got our crosses to bear.

[DEM]

No pithy, amusing preamble to my post this week. Just flat out frustration and disappointment over what the show has become, and to what lengths it's being ruined each week.

Off the Grid had enough promise to be a really good, really solid episode. Crushingly, it was reduced to mind numbingly peurile camp, robbing the story and just about the entire show of any depth.

I'd say that I don't know where to begin, except that I soooo do. It's with Mitchell. My God, this is one awful, terrible character. Cameron Mitchell is completely ruining the show for me. It is completely implausible for this man to be associated in any way, shape, or form with the SGC. There is no way that he is assigned to go offworld. Ever. And there is absolutely no way that he leads any group of individuals. Not pilots, not ground troops, and certainly not SG-1.

Contrary to the producers protestations otherwise, I firmly believe that someone has got to start getting their asses out of the production offices and be on set during filming. That's right, the show needs an on set producer; it particularly needs one when Peter DeLuise is directing.

Now, contrary to what many of you probably believe, there was a lot I did like in this episode. Carter and Daniel, in particular, made this episode work in the limited capacity that it did. Their constant annoyance and frustration with Mitchell was played well and was completely appropriate. It was a relief seeing that I wasn't the only person reacting that way to good old Shaft.

And I think most fans will agree that the last part of Off the Grid, where SG-1 assaults a mothership, is the part that played the best. Apparently, they can function as a team, they just choose not to most of the time.

Meh, I'm done with this. I'm just depressing myself thinking about how good the show used to be. The Scourge is next week. Any chance we could just get Daniel, Teal'c, and Sam in this one?

golfbooy, as usual, I applaud your review. I had to quote it.

What I can't figure out is what the writers are aiming for with Mitchell, especially in light of the disdain or frustration that the other characters openly express. Is that supposed to be funny? And what's with the yo-yoing? One week he's The Ancient's Gift to the Air Force (winner of the MOH for valiantly getting shot down in a training accident!) and the next week he's a hopped up Good Ole Boy. I. Don't. Get. It!

I also don't like the seeming need to hurry up and advance. A new spacecraft? With a commander who is apparently unknown to Carter, herself just a few weeks gone from Area 51? The Super Top Secret Stargate Program is THAT vast?? SG-1 has personal locator implants, and they're introduced with a throwaway line? Feh. That could have been an episode in and of itself.

In the end, the most fundamental problem with this episode -- aside from Shafted, of course -- was the complete incoherence of the script. What, exactly, was the point?

I was hoping Sam would punch him for the Mary Poppins crack. Yeah it was funny... but seeing Cam sprawl would've been even funnier.

Indeed.

[scarimor]

In the end, the most fundamental problem with this episode -- aside from Shafted, of course -- was the complete incoherence of the script. What, exactly, was the point?

a) crack!corn?

b) uncomfortable benches?

c) Cam's grandma's corn'n'beans?

You're right, the focus was all over the place and never settled down to anything.

[cafine_us]

I was sad to see Nerus killed. Ok, well I didn't see it, but we knew Ba'al killed him off screen. Nerus, while technically evil, being a Goa'uld and all, was more comic relief and less scary nemesis. I'll miss him.