Off The Grid (916)

[spg_1983]

They could have some building operations in Antarctica. I mean they have an F-302 base there,(Lost City, Avalon pt.1) so why not?

Possible, but incredibly doubtful. Antartica is neutral ground and the other countries have enough problems with us building and operating Battleships exclusively with out also building them in Antartics. Plus in order for that they would have to ship all the raw materials through the SGC and establish the entire fabrication process from scratch.

They can also have a base off world,

Same problems as Antartica, they would have to completely build the facilities to proccess the raw materials and fabricate the parts and all of the tech stuff has to pass through the SGC creating a bottle neck

and I don't remember them saying that it has to take four years to build a Daedalus class ship.

They havn't. My point was that it takes 4 years to build an Nimitz-class aircraft carrier with the full unclassified support of the government and private contractors and fabrication facilities. You have multiple plants and companies contributing to the manufacture and construction. The Daedalua-class ships are all built in secret and all the components have to be manufactured in secret, which means you don't have dozens of defense contractors contributing various components. So it should take even longer

From my recollection they built the Prometheus in early season six. Who’s to say they didn't start building more after they completed the Prometheus.

We don't know when they started construction on the Prometheus, but since Area 51 was working on the X-301 all the way back in season 2 it was likely in development and construction for many years before we actually saw it and Im sure they did start building other ones right away after the Prometheus was field tested, but that would mean they had the Daedalus built and operation in less then 2 years and the Odessy in less then three

There’s no way to know if the SGC has the resources are not to build a bunch of Daedalus class ships since the Goa'uld have been defeated.

Spoiler:

I didn't even know they had a gamma site until I read the spoilers for the next coming episode.

We know from multiple episodes that they have been prospecting for naquada and trinium on many worlds and set up several mining operations, but all of it has to be mined by hand and brought back one load at a time, that is a very slow rate of raw materials flowing in.

As far as finance goes we have no idea how much it actually cost to build a Daedalus class ship so we can't really say if they have the resources are not, financial, or raw material wise.

We know from the episode "Prometheus" that the reasearch and development of Prometheus' hyperdrive alone cost 2 billion dollars, It is safe to guess the entire ships, fabrication through assemply costs easily over 10 billion dollars.

[Heaven]

I think the word BORING covers this episode
"team episode" is the last thing I would call it
I'm not gonna waste time bashing mitchell on this one because I stopped expecting anything from his character long ago
but what I have to point out is the totally B-O-R-I-N-G writing
I mean seriously couldn't TPTB come up with a better way to introduce
the lucian alliance than "oh yeah that was mitchell's fault" and shooting on their ships unprovoked.
no wonder the asgard hesitate giving us weapons considering who's in charge

[HirogenGater]

"team episode" is the last thing I would call it

Did you see the episode? SG-1 was together for 90% of it.

[ForeverSg1]

So they can build and launch a ship in less then a year with a limitied trickle of raw materials and a fabrication process that must be done completely in secret and then assembled in secret? Come on. There is suspension of disbelief and then there is the writers insulting our intelligence. This definately falls into the later.

Yeah one of the reasons they have never mentioned where Jack has gone is because he's not really in Washington DC like most people think. He's actually working with the Asgard on building Daedalus-class ships for Earth. Jack had to go because the Asgard's don't really trust anyone else to be allowed on one of their planets, so Jack is there as an ambassador.

With the replicators now gone, the Asgards really have nothing to do so while they are replenishing their own stock of ships, they are helping Earth build a fleet as well. In exchange, we give them all the M&M's they want. Yellow is Thor's favorite.

[golfbooy]

No pithy, amusing preamble to my post this week. Just flat out frustration and disappointment over what the show has become, and to what lengths it's being ruined each week. If you're a fan of Camshaft Mitchell or Ben Browder, you should probably skip this review.

Off the Grid had enough promise to be a really good, really solid episode. Crushingly, it was reduced to mind numbingly peurile camp, robbing the story and just about the entire show of any depth. I find myself seriously questioning why I'm still tuning in for this tripe, and why I continue to subject myself to the utter decimation of what up until now has been a standout show.

I'd say that I don't know where to begin, except that I soooo do. It's with Mitchell. My God, this is one awful, terrible character. Cameron Mitchell is completely ruining the show for me. I actively, passionately dislike the character. His arrival in the stargate universe has brought about an utter contempt for logic and sanity in favor of the next cool shot, the next cringeworthy one-liner, the next bouncy action sequence where he gets to fly through the air and tumble along the ground. In the nine years I've watched Stargate SG-1 I have never actively hated a character. Never. But I do hate Mitchell.

It is completely implausible for this man to be associated in any way, shape, or form with the SGC. There is no way that he is assigned to go offworld. Ever. And there is absolutely no way that he leads any group of individuals. Not pilots, not ground troops, and certainly not SG-1. Disregarding orders, acting like a moron, yucking it up with whoever crosses his line of sight--every time he's on screen I'm just waiting for the next stupid, campy thing to occur. All seriousness is sucked out of the show when he's around, and it's killing SG-1. Worst of all, I don't see a way around it. This is obviously the character that TPTB have created. And Ben Browder is signed for another year. But if there was ever a character that needed to be scuttled for the sake of a show, it's Cam Mitchell. The character is all over the map and the inconsistencies are terribly jarring. Worst of all, when the writing is consistent it portrays Mitchell as a unthinking, joke-cracking, adventure-at-all-cost-seeking child. The character is totally unbelievable in a position of authority. Who would have guessed that Felger would be the model for the new character in season nine?

I'm going to stop now, and try to talk about the actual episode itself, but warn all who have made it this far that my increduality and disappointment in the character of Mitchell may rear its ugly head at any moment. Anyway, the episode did have other problems. What's with the teaser? I'm game for most things when it comes to the structure of an episode, but the teaser served absolutely no purpose at all. Was the episode so short time-wise that all you could do was reuse the same sequence twice? I'd love to be enlightened on this one. Does anybody have a valid reason why the episode was constructed this way? Please, tell me I'm missing the significance of it all. I'm begging here. Was this all because TPTB couldn't bear the ignominy of showing Cam being rescued by Carter, Teal'c, and Daniel? Was it because we wouldn't believe that Cam didn't get himself killed in this instance? I'm supposed to just imagine this rescue on my own? The exclusion of scenes like Mitchell's rescue by SG-1 is exactly why Cameron just feels like baggage for the team.

Also going in the "problems" category for the episode has to be the jail scenes with Nerus. No, that's not entirely true. It's just the last jail scene with Landry and Nerus. For me, it was just another case of the writers and directors not knowing when enough is enough. I get it, Nerus likes food. It was damn amusing in Beachhead. It was momentarily funny here in Off The Grid. But whose ever idea it was to have food flung everwhere really lost it. The scene was serious, and Maury Chakin did a great job delivering the "I'm full" line. But the way the set was dressed completely undermined everything else that was going on. I can't help but think that this is the kind of thing that Mike Greenberg used keep reined in. Contrary to the producers protestations otherwise, I firmly believe that someone has got to start getting their asses out of the production offices and be on set during filming. That's right, the show needs an on set producer; it particularly needs one when Peter DeLuise is directing. And just to be fair, I hated the same joke in Atlantis' The Tower a week ago. It's just not funny.

Now, contrary to what many of you probably believe, there was a lot I did like in this episode. Carter and Daniel, in particular, made this episode work in the limited capacity that it did. Their constant annoyance and frustration with Mitchell was played well and was completely appropriate. It was a relief seeing that I wasn't the only person reacting that way to good old Shaft. Seriously, the joke wasn't that funny to begin with that it bears constant repeating; Carter's exaggerated rolling of her eyes summed up exactly how I felt. But it does make me wonder what the hell the writers are shooting for with Mitchell. Likewise, the closing scene where Carter and Daniel leave Mitchell on the ramp ogling his beloved weapon, waxing poetically about how happiness really is a warm gun once again echoed my own sentiments regarding Cameron's latest buffoonery.

Ooh, and then there's Cliff Simon. What a great performance. His Ba'al continues to be one of the few bright spots this season. Ba'al was truly Goa'uldish in this one, and it's the little things that do it for him. Striding down the halls of his mothership, talking of his "court", and trying to rebuild his empire all serve to subtley play up the snake in his head and hearken back to the days when the show knew where it was going. His silent, powerful interaction contrasted nicely with Nerus' over the top blithering, and really reinforced Nerus' underling nature. Is it wrong of me to be more interested in Ba'al's machinations than the Ori's? Though, killing off more Ba'al clones was unnecessary; for my money we really need to encounter the "real" Ba'al next time. And I'd have also liked to see Ba'al get the better of the Lucian Alliance. It would have been a nice nod to the fact that the Goa'uld are still a formidable enemy, and that it takes more than a few motherships to control the galaxy. I hope that's where they're going with the Lucian Alliance and that somewhere down the line we'll see Ba'al usurp their territory, spy network, and fleet in a return to power.

And I think most fans will agree that the last part of Off the Grid, where SG-1 assaults a mothership, is the part that played the best. Apparently, they can function as a team, they just choose not to most of the time. For as much fun as it was to see Teal'c and Mitchell defending their position, it was the scenes of Carter and Daniel tagging the gates that did it for me. I loved how once the shooting started neither Carter nor Daniel hesitated. The same goes for Teal'c when he simply stepped into the hallway and began the altercation. These three know exactly what they're doing and what needs to be done. Just imagine if they didn't have to spend the majority of the show saving Cam's ass all the time.

Meh, I'm done with this. I'm just depressing myself thinking about how good the show used to be. The Scourge is next week. Any chance we could just get Daniel, Teal'c, and Sam in this one?

[entil2001]

To a certain extent, I like the basic idea at the heart of this episode. Even setting the Jaffa Nation aside, there are a number of issues still remaining in the wake of the defeat of the System Lords. In a way, it reminds me of the primary concept for the Star Wars Extended Universe novels before the New Jedi Order. A lot of the books were devoted to the idea of various powers trying to fill the gaps left by the Empire, including several of the remaining admirals. And of course, that meant trying to rebuild the Empire and prevent the success of the Rebellion from spreading.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the writers were rather familiar with those books (they were rather popular), since a number of the same ideas are being explored in this season. There’s the emerging new threat, the criminals taking control of Goa’uld resources, Baal trying to carve out a new empire of his own (using clones in the process), and the Tau’ri trying to hold it all together and keep the idea of self-determination viable.

Like those novels, however, the quality of each tale can be highly variable. And of course, different fans have different preferences. I took a bit of slack because I didn’t find the previous episode all that interesting. Well, that’s personal preference. I also thought that this episode was hit or miss, scene by scene, and it didn’t really come together for me until the final act or so.

The first half of the episode, dealing with SG-1 running up against the Lucian Alliance, wasn’t quite as interesting as it could have been. As much as I like the idea of rogue humans taking control of System Lord resources and creating a galactic crime syndicate in the process, the implementation of that idea is not always as good as it could be. Sure, it’s fun to have Amanda Tapping in a leather corset top, but it doesn’t cover up mediocre events.

Far more interesting was the idea of Baal stealing stargates to create his own independent network. That’s actually not something I had thought of, but it makes perfect sense. But I was a little put off at the idea that Baal would only be trying this using one group of clones. Obviously, I don’t believe that Baal is gone for good after this episode, since there are several of his clones out there. But did he only have one ship with an Asgard transport device? Seems like it would work better if he had a few parallel efforts to steal gates and set up isolated networks that he could bring online and then link together.

I also felt that the quick introduction of the Odyssey takes some of the thunder from the previous episode. I liked the idea of a relatively self-contained situation having a huge impact on the SGC’s overall operations, but that’s completely undercut by the fact that a much more powerful ship is ready to go online in the very next episode!

Nerus was also a bit annoying. Or rather, Landry’s version of trying to convince Nerus to explain what Baal was doing with the gates. While I understand that the goal was getting Nerus to ingest the locator beacon, it felt like Landry gave Nerus his feast a little too quickly. It’s a minor thing, but it also didn’t give me the feeling that Landry was quite as clever as the writers wanted him to seem.

[Dannygirl]

I couldn't help but notice a small thing about that corn. The effects that were described by eating was just too similar, and then the name of the new ship clinched it. That corn of theirs I think was a reference to the Lotus plant in Homer's the Odyssey, where some of Odysseus' crew tastes the plant of the Lotus eaters, and have to be literally dragged from the island onto the boats because now all they want to do is eat that plant.

It's been so long since I read the book, I don't remember. That's awesome though. How much trivia have we lost in terms of crossover b/t SG-1 and mythology that we might appreciate the stories more if we knew.

The thing that seemed off to me about this epsiode was the whole being held captive for about 20 some odd hours. It looked like they had been held for about twenty minutes. Each sitting in the same spot, a little bit of blood on the face, but still rather wide eyed. I would expect that a lot more drama would take place if a group of thugs were holding them captive. Especially with Sam. At least in Emancipation, they suggested what would happen to her with her being captive over night... here it was just okay, we're getting slapped around. No big deal.

I do agree with you. I found it surprising when they said 22 hours had passed and the team didn't look too disheveled or beaten to show it.

As for the time passage in building the Daedalus and Odyssey, isn't it possible that the Asgard are helping in construction? No, nothing's been said on the show about this but I've noticed that that tends to happen a lot. Either that or construction on all 3 began consecutively close together and the last 2 were just refitted with the newer components as they came along.

I honestly thought this had one of the better gunfire scenes. Teal'c kicking serious butt the entire time they were on Ba'al's ship along with Mitch with the bigger gun. None stop finger on the trigger.

[Zoser]

at the end, when sg1 come through the stargate and mitchell is all gung ho, i liked the difference between his 'wow, isn't this great!' to sam and daniel's 'i'm taking a shower' and 'i'm going to see a doctor'. i think sam and daniel have been through enough that maybe they're... just getting sick of it? but it was interesting to see the difference. hmmm... might be foreshadowing perhaps?

I can only hope - this is a military operation isn't it?

I don't think I could despise Cam aka Shaft any more if I tried - he act like a thirteen year old(I ask pardon of all 13 year olds) flamer.
What's with the outfits - Vala's old clothes fit Carter?

When Mitchell decided to be the 'drug dealer' he did not consult with his 'co-leader' - no, he insulted her.
When Mitchell needed help fending off the Jaffa, who does he call a seasoned professional Air Force officer or an archaeologist?

The plot - trite and holer the swiss cheese
The dialogue - painful

The best part - Ba'al - love his outfits.

I try to imagine if it is just the lack of O'Neill, but I don't think I would like this crap any better if he were in command. Maybe it is I just can't imagine him acting like that.

[Zoser]

Two questions:
1. If the Lucian Alliance wanted their Stargate back why did they destroy the ship they thought they were in?
2. Ba'al used a staff weapon instead of a hand devise - was that a (clone) clue?

[SGFerrit]

Well lets see they build Prometheus first and that was the prototype, that was launched in season 6. It wouldnt really make sense to start building other ones before your prototype was finished would it? Even if they were building all these concurrently, and Im not willing to concede that they are, do you honestly believe that they were able to sustaon building operations with the flow of raw materials from the SGC? Plus keep it all secret? How many massive underground facilities that suck up billions of dollars can they really have that are set in the middle of no where so no one can see the ships launch? It is just bad writing.

Its already been said somewhere, there are tons of underground bunkers all over america. And anyway, theres only been 3 ships. that ONLY = 3 bunkers.

And as I said the Asgard churn out ships like something not right, and they have been helping us build them so......

[Zoser]

snipper

What incident is Landry referring to when he talks about SG-1 being the first to be implanted with that locating chip?

.

I thought it had to happen in an episode I slept through.

Did anyone notice the Twinkies on the dessert platter?

[SGFerrit]

Did you see the episode? SG-1 was together for 90% of it.

That shut you up, heaven

[spg_1983]

Its already been said somewhere, there are tons of underground bunkers all over america. And anyway, theres only been 3 ships. that ONLY = 3 bunkers.

Its not just the simple matter of having a massive underground hanger, you have to hvae the fabrication and raw materials proccessing facilities nearby plus keep it all secret. Also, the more sites you establish the more the small trickle of raw materials comming through the gate is split up among the various sites and slowing down production even more.

And as I said the Asgard churn out ships like something not right, and they have been helping us build them so......

There has not been one indication or inference that they are helping us build them. They have been giving us hyperdrives and shields, but they are building their own civilization back up, there has been nothing said ever about them helping with the actual construction of the ships themselves.

[Zoser]

valid point - maybe they did. Perhaps though, if that was the case, we could have used less of the nonsubstantive nonsense from Mitchell in the briefing room and what foods his grandmother makes and could have actually been shown something SUBSTANTIVE to the story?

Talk's cheap - special effects are expensive and good writing - priceless

[ForeverSg1]

The thing that seemed off to me about this epsiode was the whole being held captive for about 20 some odd hours. It looked like they had been held for about twenty minutes. Each sitting in the same spot, a little bit of blood on the face, but still rather wide eyed. I would expect that a lot more drama would take place if a group of thugs were holding them captive. Especially with Sam. At least in Emancipation, they suggested what would happen to her with her being captive over night... here it was just okay, we're getting slapped around. No big deal.

Yeah the whole time thing had me all messed up. I was talking to my sister during the first 10mins and was totally lost when we came back from the commercial and they were suddenly back in the SGC briefing room. I had to rewind to find out what I had missed and then I was just as confused.

We know they were on the planet for at least four hours before the drug dealers even started talking to Mitchell, then the chat with him, and the so-called escape and disappearance of the Stargates. I just assumed they had been sitting on the bench for an hour tops, but according the leader of the Allience they had SG-1 in their possession for two days and hadn't gotten any information. You'd think SG-1 would have looked a bit more tired and uncomfortable. I know my bum would have been alseep after two days of sitting in the same position.

Also how did we manage to alter our beaming technology so that it would beam a man sitting down and have them rematerialize standing up?