Ethon (915)

[AnotherEvilAlien]

No. IMHO it was needed to show how deadly the Ori really are. The Goa'uld never managed that.

Why do you assume I need to see Prometheus being blow to kingdom come (without doing a damn thing in return) to know the Ori are powerful. For christ's sake, the Ori weren't even in the episode, just their influence.

Having to see the Ori destroy the Prometheus to show the Ori are evil is like having to carry, by hand, every single dollar that Bill Gates has cross-country to prove he's rich.

They almost killed all of earth with their virus, I *KNOW* they are dangerous.

Not only is it stupid, it's unneeded.

Uh...no. That was foreshadowing.

Ah. So Janet will be returning from the grave then, huh?

IT WAS AN ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE! Just because it was said or seen DOES NOT AT ALL mean it will happen in the regular SG-1 universe.

By the time they finished Ripple Effect's script, they already knew that the Promie is going to get it 2 episodes later.

Yeah, showing that the writers just wanted to justify the act.

You should never have to justify what's in the script. If you do, something's wrong with it.

It's war. What, you think it's all going to be meaningful and happy sunshine?

Oh, really?

Then why didn't they FOLLOW THEIR ****ING PLAN and run in case they couldn't do anything?

Because sh*t happens. That's war.

It's a TV show. Not a war. We've been in several wars since WWII, but the United States hasn't lost a single carrier since WWII. In the meantime, it took Earth less than 4 years to lose their first BC.

Because this is Stargate SG1, they are the main characters. Weir, is ALSO a main character, and so is Atlantis since the show is called "Stargate Atlantis"

When there is a Stargate Prometheus or Stargate Pendergast, then I'll understand.

Why? Can you honesty not handle a character death on a TV show that you don't want this kind of emotional impact?

We need sacrifices.

"Hi, my name is PG15, and I'm a hypocrite."

So you don't give a damn if Pendergast or Prometheus bites the dust, but you whine when I suggest that we should just start killing off the entire cast? That's asinine hypocritic banter.

You don't care, as long as you get to choose and pick who lives and dies. Well, well, well. That's all fine and dandy, but it sort of ruins whatever creditibility you had.

You must have crapped bricks when RDA left, or when Sheppard was set up to kill himself at the end of Season 1. "We need sarcrifices, but don't kill off any major characters!" (Dear god, did you go stark raving mad when Daniel died... twice?)

In 'Revalations' we've seen that Goa'uld Ha'taks can destroy Asgards ships

1.) Osiris' ship was using Ancient shields that Anubis had knowledge of.
2.) Even an Asgard shield will fail if hit with enough big weapons.

[nyxlily]

It didn't bother me that Jared had all the lines in that scene, because just like Teal'c's scene with Sam, I thought Daniel in the background with his head down spoke volumes! I was barely paying attention to Jared and was just watching Daniel. Again, 9 years of friendship with these people and he can only assume they were on the ship and possibly did not beam down.

I agree. While Daniel will forever remain my favorite character of the show, he doesn't need to be the center of every scene he's in to make an impact; especially in this one where he's trying to come to terms with the death of his friends (as far as he knows atm). I thought it was very appropriate to have him in the background, it's very much in his character to grief alone. I think golfbooy put it best:

His reaction to the apparent deaths of his friends was great and very much in character. No gnashing of teeth or beating of breast, just the same reserved, quiet sadness which he displayed after the deaths of both Sha're and Janet Frasier

While the destruction of Promethus was tragic, it was very well excuted. I could not believe they would really blow the ship up WHILE I was watching it get blown up (I actually didn't see the trailer or read any of the spoilers, so this REALLY was a surprise). It was a jaw dropping moment for me and the show hadn't done that to me since last season with Reckoning part II. Yes, it's an inanimate object.. but for some reason I still felt shocked and sad.

I was also sad to see Pendergast go even though I wasn't every emotionally invested in the character.. I suppose it was the way he went. Very selfless and truely worthy to be part of the SGC team. The deaths of all those personnel show just what kind of people made up Stargate Command.

Like other people said, this episode felt very like an 'old' SG1 show. I felt everyone (except Teal'c.. again) had a very prominent role to play and it did not just showcase anyone in particular. The emotional scene at reuniting with Sam kinda made up for Teal'c's lack of other things to do. Sorta.

Even though it was such a dark episode there were a few lines of very delightfully amusing humor. Amusing humor.. that was redundant... anyway! I was waiting to see what Cam would do with the 'big chair' and I found it funny and appropriate that he didn't take it. As with pratically everyone else, I loved Daniel's line in the cell.

I'm sure there are tons of other things that could be commented on.. but I'll wrap this up because it's getting to be too long.

[PugGate]

I think it was a bit of a regression for Daniel in this ep because he was acting just like he did in S1. He's like 'I'm sure I can just waltz onto a planet where two factions are about to nuke themselves and negotiate with a lying sob even though they'll want to kill me on sight.' Cam should'f just knocked him out and locked him into a closet until they took out the satelite and nuked the Rand Protectorate and the Caleddies. He was acting so freaking naive.

And what was with the locator beacon? If he's gonna get searched as soon as he steps through the gate, maybe they should've cut him open and stuffed it in his chest or something. Now that I'm done ranting about DJ, why the Prommie????

[binkpmmc]

I agree. While Daniel will forever remain my favorite character of the show, he doesn't need to be the center of every scene he's in to make an impact; especially in this one where he's trying to come to terms with the death of his friends (as far as he knows atm). I thought it was very appropriate to have him in the background, it's very much in his character to grief alone. I think binkpmmc put it best:


While the destruction of Promethus was tragic, it was very well excuted. I could not believe they would really blow the ship up WHILE I was watching it get blown up (I actually didn't see the trailer or read any of the spoilers, so this REALLY was a surprise). It was a jaw dropping moment for me and the show hadn't done that to me since last season with Reckoning part II. Yes, it's an inanimate object.. but for some reason I still felt shocked and sad.

I was also sad to see Pendergast go even though I wasn't every emotionally invested in the character.. I suppose it was the way he went. Very selfless and truely worthy to be part of the SGC team. The deaths of all those personnel show just what kind of people made up Stargate Command.

Like other people said, this episode felt very like an 'old' SG1 show. I felt everyone (except Teal'c.. again) had a very prominent role to play and it did not just showcase anyone in particular. The emotional scene at reuniting with Sam kinda made up for Teal'c's lack of other things to do. Sorta.

Even though it was such a dark episode there were a few lines of very delightfully amusing humor. Amusing humor.. that was redundant... anyway! I was waiting to see what Cam would do with the 'big chair' and I found it funny and appropriate that he didn't take it. As with pratically everyone else, I loved Daniel's line in the cell.

I'm sure there are tons of other things that could be commented on.. but I'll wrap this up because it's getting to be too long.

Just a quick clarification - the quote you attribute to me is not mine.

[AnotherEvilAlien]

While the destruction of Promethus was tragic, it was very well excuted.

I disagree. The Prometheus got it's ass kicked royally. Had the Prometheus dished out some pain and then gone down... that would have been one thing.

However, the Prometheus went down like King Kong vs. airplanes. It simply got blown out of space without doing a thing. And THAT upsets me. The writters should have had the crew of Prometheus put up one hell of a fight before going down.

[binkpmmc]

Edited to add...even though it's against regulations...not to say it doesn't happen. (Just not too thrilled about the "supposed" 21C of the base is doing this when he would have to punish junior personnel for the same thing).

I see Carter, who reports directly to Landry per J. Mallozzi, as 2IC of the base not Mitchell. It has not been addressed on screen and the closest they came was in 4HM2 when Landry was sick and it was pretty clear to me when Carter was in the Control Room and she ordered the SFs guarding the Gate when Teal'c came through to stand down. And I will add my agreement with others that having the supposed co-leader of SG1, the elite SG team, with beer on base (it was clearly Coors Light) is just another strike against Mitchell (while it is small it is the small things, coupled with the humungously bad and annoying things, that continue to add up and continue to drive this character into the ground, IMO).

[majorsal]

And what was with the locator beacon? If he's gonna get searched as soon as he steps through the gate, maybe they should've cut him open and stuffed it in his chest or something. Now that I'm done ranting about DJ, why the Prommie????

LOL!

hope you're not a doctor?




sally

[Dani347]

Whoever said that Daniel had to be the center of every scene???????? I liked his silent grief. The only reason I'm the least bit annoyed with Jared making arguments that Daniel would have made was because they barely gave Daniel a chance to make them in earlier scenes when he wasn't incapacitated with grief. If they showed more of him doing that in otherscenes, especially considering the storyline, I would have been fine with that scene in the cell.

[Kanten]

I disagree. The Prometheus got it's ass kicked royally. Had the Prometheus dished out some pain and then gone down... that would have been one thing.

However, the Prometheus went down like King Kong vs. airplanes. It simply got blown out of space without doing a thing. And THAT upsets me. The writters should have had the crew of Prometheus put up one hell of a fight before going down.

I really couldn't have seen the Prometheus going down any different there. If there was a lengthy battle, it would've diminished the effect the scene had. One of the major points of Prometheus going down was to show how powerful and dangerous the Ori tech is going to be when they launch their invasion.

The other major point was the danger the true believers of the Ori pose. It doesn't take the best resources or technology in the galaxy to build a weapon as dangerous as that satellite, it only takes the right plans from the right people. President Nadal is the model of how much of a dangerous enemy the Ori can make their followers.

This was not a feel-good episode of SG-1. The fans' hatred for Nadal would have nowhere near the degree it was if the Prometheus went out in a blaze of glory. After Prometheus had been crippled by the first two shots from the satellite and Nadal ordered the final one, it was no longer self-defense, it was MURDER. That scene was supposed to upset us.

[Dannygirl]

In regards to Daniel taking backseat to two minor characters discussing their political situation, I honestly thought it necessary in this instance. It's hard to put a finger on the why's of this, but I honestly thought the writers had it right. In this situation, reasoning and peace or even an attempt at them would never have been possible with such religious fanaticism in the way. It's why it's called fanaticism. Having reason come from a third party (Daniel) wouldn't have worked, so they had it come from Jared instead because he's a Rand Protectorate and a friend. Wish I could explain it better.

As for Mitchell's credibility when bringing in the beer, I recall Jack doing much MUCH worse during his 8 year stay.

[Quinn Mallory]

This was an interesting episode. Sad in the destruction of the Prometheus and the death of Pendergast.

What did bother me rather plenty however was the ease in which the team thought the Ori satellite can be destroyed. Haven't we learned already that the Ori are pretty badass and their weapons and plans are not going to be that easy to defeat. There were definitely an air of overconfidence in the SG-1 and the Prometheus crew before the mission which I thought was odd.

[Laros]

Awesome ep. I love episodes were characters die and valuable ships get blown up just for the sake of demonstrating how screwed we really are when the Ori send their ships.

Also great to see that recurring characters/ships don't always have to die a heroic death. It's nice when they die just because of overconfidence.

[Buzz Lightyear]

In my opinion, this episode made rebalanced stargate's realistic scale. The 303 class (Prommie/ Daed) seemed to be portrayed as a indestructible spaceship.

Obviously this isn't true now that we've seen it.

This episode was pretty good except for one thing:
The Hesitation of the Prommie Crew.

I know they care for Daniel, especially now that Oma isn't there to re-ascend him if he dies. Also, the schematics Kane brought to Earth were EARLY schematics. I'm pretty sure shields would definately be added. With that said, they should have automatically destroyed the satellite upon exiting hyperspace and then destroy the Rand Protectorate bunker. Also, Daniel's location beacon should have been a tiny little thing that he could attack to his glasses or watch or something.

I'm not sure "indestructible" is the proper term to use here. I doubt any viewer ever thought the Prometheus and the Daedalus were indestructible. They always broke off engagements when shield strength dropped dangerously low. However, neither ship was ever portrayed with any sense of being in real jeopardy, even when the Prometheus was stolen/hijacked (episodes 611, 812, 913) or confronted alien entities (713), or during any of the Daedalus' encounters with Wraith hive ships. This was the first time I got the feeling the Earth ship was in WAAAY over its head.

I totally agree that the hesitation of the Prometheus command was its downfall. Who exactly was in charge here? Pendergast? Carter? Mitchell? I realize the writers wrote in the command confusion but is that realistic? And as soon as their first missile volley revealed the satellite's defensive capability, surely someone - anyone - would have immediately called for evasive maneuvers. That was sloppy plotting, imo. They could still have written in the eventual destruction of the Prometheus but it should have gone down fighting rather than just sitting there like a lame duck waiting to be slaughtered.

[the fifth man]

I just got done watching this ep again a little bit ago. As usual, I liked it even more on the second go around. Which, in this case was pretty hard, since I thought it was excellent the first time around. I still, in a way, can't get over the destruction of the Prometheus. I do agree though, that the true might of the Ori had to be shown at some point. And I'm sure we'll see it a lot more too down the road.

[PG15]

Why do you assume I need to see Prometheus being blow to kingdom come (without doing a damn thing in return) to know the Ori are powerful. For christ's sake, the Ori weren't even in the episode, just their influence.

And that itself was enough to blow the Prometheus to kingdom come.

Having to see the Ori destroy the Prometheus to show the Ori are evil is like having to carry, by hand, every single dollar that Bill Gates has cross-country to prove he's rich.

Huh?

We can see that Gates is rich by seeing him buying stuff. At the same time, we can see the Ori as powerful by them destroying stuff. Namely, our Prometheus.

They almost killed all of earth with their virus, I *KNOW* they are dangerous.

And yet we got out of it. This time we weren't so lucky.

That little difference was what made this so much more satisfying (IMHO) than TFH.

You have real attachment issues, you know that?

Ah. So Janet will be returning from the grave then, huh?

Uh, no that wasn't a foreshadowing. Can't you tell?

Ok, you know why I knew it was foreshadowing? Because the writer himself said so. Check out the "Ripple Effect deleted scenes" on the front page.

Yeah, showing that the writers just wanted to justify the act.

You should never have to justify what's in the script. If you do, something's wrong with it.

They don't have to justify a single thing. Do you know what foreshadowing means?

Ok, look, read that deleted scenes thing I pointed out, and you can see that RE foreshadows Ethon, Camelot, and Counter-Strike.

And here's what I think they are:

Spoiler:

We've already seen what the Ethon foreshadowing did. The second Ori beachhead is apparently due to arrive in Camelot, and the "cut the green wire" thing is most likely in Counter-Strike.

Anyway, just a little tangent.

Oh, really?

Then why didn't they FOLLOW THEIR ****ING PLAN and run in case they couldn't do anything?

You know what? I have no idea.

Probably thought that the shields can protect it. And then of course there was Daniel.

It's a TV show. Not a war. We've been in several wars since WWII, but the United States hasn't lost a single carrier since WWII. In the meantime, it took Earth less than 4 years to lose their first BC.

Ok, first of all, comparing a carrier, one of the most advanced and fortified things in the world, with a prototype space ship (the first one we've ever had) is kinda...not right.

Also, it doesn't matter that it's a TV show, since it's TV show that's trying to portray war, which I assume they would want to do as real as possible.

"Hi, my name is PG15, and I'm a hypocrite."

Oh, you're such a nice lad.

So you don't give a damn if Pendergast or Prometheus bites the dust, but you whine when I suggest that we should just start killing off the entire cast? That's asinine hypocritic banter.

Of course I gave a damn. If I didn't I wouldn't be discussing this.

But I also understand that, in order to create drama in a series that's based on warfare and struggles, you win some and you loose some. So far, we've won far too many times against an enemy as powerful as the Ancients. It's about time we take some losses, and unfortunately that means the Prometheus.

You don't care, as long as you get to choose and pick who lives and dies. Well, well, well. That's all fine and dandy, but it sort of ruins whatever creditibility you had.

Sure sure, whatever.

Since apparently I don't have any credibility left, I'm guessing you won't reply anymore. Well, that's just too bad.

Still, I'm gonna make my point anyway. All I was doing (or trying to do) was to tell you that, as the main characters. They have close to ZERO CHANCE of being killed. Weir dying? Not really likely. Atlantis sinking and being destroyed? Equally unlikely. SG1 getting blown to bits? Not gonna happen, at least not permanently.

And if you try to hit me with Daniel dying, well, we knew the actor is leaving, that's a whole other story.

You will never, NEVER see a story where, say, Sam dies and doesn't comeback, and we don't hear about Amanda Tapping quiting before hand.

BUT, the Prometheus, nor Pendergast, is a main character/vehicle, and YES, I AM SAD THEY ARE GONE, but I also accept that, since they can't really kill off their main characters to prove a point, they go for the next "best" thing.

Do you get it now? Or do you want to keep trading insults?

You must have crapped bricks when RDA left,

I was sad, but I wasn't doing...uh...that.

or when Sheppard was set up to kill himself at the end of Season 1. "We need sarcrifices, but don't kill off any major characters!" (Dear god, did you go stark raving mad when Daniel died... twice?)

Heh, coming from Star Trek, where no one really dies, I didn't feel "scared" at all. All I wanted to do was to see how it ends.

2.) Even an Asgard shield will fail if hit with enough big weapons.

I know you weren't talking to me, but the Asgard shields the Prommie had in Lost City took on a lot from Anubis's mothership.