Stronghold (914)

[cindyz]

Best thing about this episode...Bra'tac!
Mmmmmm, Ba'al...nice.....
Cameron, trying too hard to be all sensitive. and he's impatient? did he really have to tell us that when moments later he goes commando on the rescue mission?? maybe stupid as well.
Sam, in charge, kicking some @ss!
Not enough Daniel.
Teal'c very tough. But that's enough torture guys ...He can give us so much more than that.
Enough with the Jaffa nation politics already! Boring.......
And I do believe we saw Cameron on the phone with Landry, talking about his friend, he did ask permission to use the device.

not the best episode, not the worst.

just my 2cents...not to be taken internally...harmful if swallowed...

[jckfan55]

Briefly. One liners.

For new viewers, it's still putting them up there with Cameron's decision. And, Pete's, er, unwise behavior aside, it's not quite the same thing.

This was something that wasn't required for the sake of national security. The guy had hunches. Cameron still could've played coy. There's a difference between, "Oh crap, the Tok'ra aren't letting us go unless we bring back a host;" "Oh crap, this idiot followed Sam to a stakeout and got himself shot;" and "Oh crap, I'm feeling really crappy over what might have been."

Good point. After Jacob was a dying friend asking Hammond what daughter was doing as a deathbed request and *George* stood firm until the Tokra thing.

[SierraGulf1]

Everything about this episode was great...except Mitchell's part in it. Most of the things people wanted earlier are coming true...

For one, Carter is now less of a lovesick little girl and we're truly seeing her return to her former self. Teal'c and Bra'tac have always been great, and it was good to see them in action. As for Daniel, maybe he's got separation anxiety from Jack and he's turning into him... I don't mind that too much though, as we'll hopefully see some of old Daniel shine through in Ethon next week.

Unfortunately, all of those great things were overshadowed by the Mitchell plot, and them him running in and possibly jeopardizing everything because he had a "bad day." I agree that Landry calling Teal'c family felt a little off, but if we think about it, 14 episodes is the equilvalent to about nine months, that is, if seasons are still one year.

So, loved Carter, Daniel, Teal'c, Bra'tac, and Ba'al, and I usually like Mitchell, but this episode kind of ruined it. What I don't like is that SG-1 is seeming to be told from the POV of Mitchell, and thus, as previously stated, Daniel and Sam are seeming like strangers.

I'm enjoying S9, and I enjoyed half this episode a lot. I think if they cut Ferguson out of it completely, focused on resuing Teal'c, and had Mitchell, Daniel, Bra'tac, and Carter going up to the mother ship (just like old times), this episode could have been a 10/10.

Oh well, I've heard good things about Ethon.

[BlackBaron]

Stronghold was a great episode! Loved Baal in this one. Not many times a goa'uld make you laugh.

One of the best episode this series and I've loved every single one!

[keshou]

I don't have much to say about this one. It was just fair imo.

Enjoyed the Teal'c / Ba'al talk. Ba'al's great, as usual (and yay! we got to hear Cliff Simon's real voice) and I expect we'll keep seeing him getting killed over and over now that there are all those clones around.

I always loved the way Ba'al played the "god" with a wink and a nod and it was fun to see him acknowledge that he never believed the schtick. And heck, I thought he made a pretty good argument to Teal'c about teaming up against the Ori. Of course the whole brainwashing/torture thing kind of negated his "good of the galaxy" speech.

Let's see, what else did I like. Seeing the "rings" again. Still the best special effect on Stargate outside of the gate itself.

Otherwise - eh. Just wasn't that compelling. I guess it was interesting to get some more background on Mitchell in the "B" story and Ben played it nicely but I really didn't grab on to his angst over his dying friend. Did like the conversation between Tealc and Mitchell at the end. Wish we'd get more of those one-on-one moments between the team members.

I also didn't really feel the team's intensity and anguish over rescuing Teal'c. As opposed to the Atlantis episode that followed when I really hooked on to Shep, Zelenka and Weir's urgency. Having Landry call Teal'c "family" - well I know they're trying to make all the new characters fit in but it felt "off". The OLD SG-1 always felt like "family". This group just feels like coworkers who wave goodbye at the end of the workweek and don't give each other another thought until they meet again on Monday.

Sam led the mission well and for the second episode in a row I really liked her role. Daniel didn't have much to do but I thought the "ball" thing was cute.

So kind of a letdown after Ripple Effect.

[BlackBaron]

What can I say... Baal seems popular.

I also really like it when Baal said "Can you blame us?" and so on and on.

[Dani347]

About the ball thing, I think the reasons for bouncing it would be different with both Jack and Daniel. I imagine that Jack would have done it because he was bored. The rescue had been complete, and the rest of SG1 was superfluous, since they couldn't be part of the voting, or really do anything. Jack would understand the importance of the vote, but I don't think he would fret over it, when there was nothing he could do. So, having all the action gone, and nothing to do, he'd bounce the ball because he was bored.


Daniel, on the other hand was very keyed up. All the ramifications and what would happen if it didn't go through (and maybe even if it did) were swirling through his head. I think if he had a journal, all that nervousness would have made him write one line and then toss it to the side, because he couldn't concentrate. He was bouncing the ball to relieve tension, because of all the thoughts in his head, that needed some sort of physical outlet. I'm thinking the same effect would be given by him pacing up and down, and since they were almost at the end of the council meeting, I could imagine that earlier Daniel had been pacing, was still mentally keyed up, and just needed something to do, that wouldn't involve thinking, which he was doing overtime. And, bouncing the ball would be one thing.

eta: Did Daniel have a whole laundry list of things to do? No, but he did have some significant things. He worked under Bra'tac, and that involved having the records of Jaffa Charleston's previous decisions to give concrete proof that something was off with the sudden turn around. It was sort of like he was playing second chair to Bra'tac. I mean, of course, Daniel would be mostly following. It would be unrealistic and presumptuous of him to take charge here with Bra'tac, Jaffa leader in 2006 (campaign buttons being made) right there. But, the hall of records thing I thought was very good to show he was contributing. He came up with the idea to put the Jaffa through the ritual. He went in the rescue mission (and hasn't Daniel always been a part of those things?) And, there were other things that weren't action related -and by action, I don't mean fighting, but things where he was part of moving the action forward- but were more exposition, but were also very in character. Coming to the conclusion that the Jaffa had been brainwashed, and also that he had removed his symbiote because of shame. I could see Daniel making those connections, and although it wasn't him solving the riddle (because Bra'tac had already known) it was a good way to convey it to the audience. And, aside from bouncing the ball, it was the words, his whole demeanor, about how important the whole vote was. So, I think he did some stuff, he had some character moments, his dialogue conveyed info in a realistic way not only for his character but for the show. I mean, it didn't come off to me as "how do we tell the audience that the Jaffa was ashamed? Lets stick the lines in Daniel's mouth." Even if that was the reason, it flowed like it would have happened in real life. And, Daniel's final lines also brought up the fact that there were still brainwashed Jaffa.

I don't know how that translates in scenes or lines, but I think the quality of what Daniel had to do was very good.

[GateLadyM]

This was a good, solid episode. More info on Cam Mitchell (got a bit of a temper, eh?), but his friend was a bit too much into self-pity. Browder looked mighty fine!

Bra'tac is always a joy to watch, and Ba'al is a hoot. I'm not going to pick at the errors. I was entertained, that's all that matters.

[golfbooy]

I'm going to ramble on for a while now. Take cover.

Stronghold actually turned out to be a unique episode, but not for any of the reasons I was hoping. It had so many elements that worked beautifully that I'm absolutely flabbergasted that somehow, some way, TPTB managed to make me completely hate it. I can't ever remember having as visceral a reaction to something done in an episode, ever. And to be fair, I don't hate the entire episode. I actually liked most of it quite a bit. But the final scenes with Mitchell so completely encapsulated all that is wrong with season nine, and I daresay wrong with all Stargate to come, that it completely knocked me out.

To start, I was OK with the Mitchell/dying friend stuff. It finally provided some insight into who he is as a person and how he views himself and his situation. But, I think it was totally, entirely too late in the season (and too late into Mitchell's introduction) for it. This would have been a super storyline if it had been included in one of the first five episodes of the year. It certainly would have gone a long way towards helping Mitchell's integration into the show. It ran on for a few scenes too long, and in the end only managed to result in yet another person telling us how great and wonderful Cam is, but hey, I'm used to that by now. Oh, and TPTB have finally revealed Mitchell's fatal flaw.

I just wish it would hurry up and kill the poor sod. I've been on the fence as far as his character goes all season long, and despite a decent effort on the part of Ben Browder (especially of late), it's Stronghold that makes me absolutely abhor him. It's become readily apparent that Daniel, Sam, and Teal'c (in his own episode no less) have to be sidelined so that Cameron Mitchell can be highlighted as a "hero". It's the saddest thing I've seen in Stargate. Really, I'm not exagerating. I find it remarkable that people are actually trying to rationalize his actions and the writers' decisions. He's the perfect combination of a comic book superhero and your typical Mary Sue. It was downright laughable that he didn't wind up dead after this mission. Talk about unbelievable. Even while I was watching it I was thinking, "OK, this is where he's going to learn from his past mistakes and where all that soul searching is going to pay off." I fully expected him to stop halfway and wait for backup. But no. Then, I thought after he got his ass kicked by Fat Jaffa (and Fat Jaffa so owned him right up until that convenient Jaffa stupidity kicked in and he stood there waiting for Mitchell to pull out the Zat and shoot him) that he was going to stop and wait before going on. But no, he just bounces right back up and rolls on. Then, I thought that after he took out the gun outpost he was finished. But still, no. Then, when the Jaffa captured him at the rings I thought, "Aha, he's where he learns his lesson!" But, amazingly, no. So it's up to the mothership (which he's never been on) without the rest of the team, through an army of Jaffa (they're not so tough) and right to where Teal'c is being held (he must be psychic). No sweat. It was a sequence of events only Kevin Sorbo could love. I thought I was watching Adromeda for a second there. What in God's name was the point of all that Mitchell/dying friend stuff if he's still going to act like a moron on the job?

I find it hard to believe that I'm at this point, but I wish there was a way to get him off the team, off the show. I was sooooooo hoping those Jaffa would just shoot him. Which begs the question, why didn't they shoot him? Oh, because it belongs in the realm of the sane and logical, and we didn't have any of that left for Mitchell's character, I guess. This battle sequence ranks as the worst ever on the show. A special effort has always been made to represent the members of the SGC as competent, trained personnel, especially in combat. Production has always gone the extra mile to make battles as realistic as possible, given the circumstances. From Children of the Gods to Forever in a Day to Full Circle to Heroes, each action sequence has been played out like it was an actual military operation, not just some exercise in ego or Hollywood heroics.

Mitchell's lack of control should have previously and would now disqualify him from a position on any SG team. The fact that I'm supposed to believe that he's capable of co-leading this particular SG team, that I'm supposed to believe that Carter, Daniel, and Teal'c respect Mitchell as a competent, worthy comrade has just left the realm of unlikely and entered the realm of impossible. Whenever SG-1 has had characters doing the sort of thing Mitchell did in Stronghold it was always portrayed as stupid, incorrect, and unacceptable. Remeber the kid from Rules of Engagement, Kyle? He stupidly gets himself shot trying to be the hero. As he writhes in pain on the ground O'neill doesn't even try to hide his disdain, bluntly refusing to comfort the wounded man. Later in the same episode Kyle literally gets smacked upside the head for performing a similiar asinine stunt. And what is the response when SG-1 witnesses Katano take on a group of Jaffa alone in The Warrior? Again, it's to call him "stupid" and galvanize SG-1's mistrust in him. But apparently all of that changes when it's Mitchell who's feeling the need to do it all on his own. No, then it's all OK. I'm just supposed to ignore everything that the show's been about for the last eight years. After all, how else were the writers to prove to us that Mitchell is capable of ground-based combat, how else were they to prove to us that Mitchell is the total, absolute epitome of heroism? I'm sorry, but that final scene was tv writing at its absolute worst.

Aside from all that, I think the rest of the episode was rather good. Never kill Bra'tac. Ever. Tony Amendola simply rocks. The scene where he and Daniel "interrogate" Euken was pure gold. It's nice to see that there's some First Prime of Apophis juice still flowing through Bra'tac's veins. Daniel and Sam were also quite good in this. Perhaps it was a quality over quantity performance for both, but Michael Shanks and Amanda Tapping are undeniably stupendous in their roles. The closing scene at the Jaffa council meeting was awesome. It's scenes like those that have been conspicuously absent from season nine so far.

Carter being in command again in this one worked great. It felt very natural and organic to the story. Carter's coordinated, in control behavior in this one is a stark contrast to the reckless, wacky actions of Mitchell. I think that the writers were trying to make Mitchell look great at the end, but all they did was highlight exactly why he shouldn't be in charge of a military unit. His complete disregard for the safety of his fellow soldiers has cost him an unimaginable amount of respect as far as I'm concerned. Give me Reynolds, Dixon, or even Makepeace watching my back any day. Mitchell will just get me killed.

I think I'm going to stop now because I really could just go on and on here. I am beyond angry as I type this post. I'm angry at Mitchell, and I'm angry at the writers. They have totally killed this character for me in Stronghold. Perhaps Mitchell's inferiority complex is a projection of the writers' own conscious awareness of the character's lack of qualifications. I really am unable to explain why they would write him this way. And worse yet, I don't care anymore. I'm having a hard time not viewing Mitchell as a feckless, self-serving git. He's a liability to SG-1, a liability to the SGC, and most diappointingly, a liability to the quality of the show.

Ethon is up next week. To be honest, I'm not looking forward to it at this point. I've never been as disillusioned with the show as I am right now. And I'm going on record right now as predicting that Mitchell saves the day with his unstoppable prowess as a pilot. Prove me wrong.

Edit: I forgot to mention Cliff Simon above, but his Ba'al is the only Goa'uld to give Apophis a run for his money. The Goa'uld really are great villains, absolutely endearing in our hatred of them.

[Skydiver]

The really really not-so-good: Why did Mitchell go storming off on his own on the battlefield! Not a good move by the writers for this character, AGAIN. He was supposed to follow orders on this one---he was not in the lead. I guess this was to show his impulsive and hotheaded side? Not a good idea on the battlefield. It's a good thing Sam and Daniel followed him and saved his butt. It's also a good thing that Sam could make the rings work. In this episode, we are to see once again that Mitchell is a "hero". Not working for me (and I like Mitchell). He was reckless, and was not a team player in this one. This character needs credibility, not less, and his actions here lessen his credibility as a military team leader, IMO.

yeah. if they're supposed to be making mitch more likeable and respectible they really need to go at it anohter way. cause these kind of scenes do nothing but enforce the opinion of some that mitch is so not ready for command. he's a liability. and, if jack were in charge, someone who'd get left home

[Skydiver]

For new viewers, Jacob was told because he was getting a Tok'ra, and Pete had been shot with a Goa'uld weapon. Both of which were brought up in the episode.

and inboth cases, when sam told jacob and when she told pete, she had permission from her boss to reveal classified info. in fact, george was in the room when sam told dad. and when she told pete, she not only got permission but read him chapter and verse on the treason he'd be committing if he told anyone else.

sam did tell those two men what was going on. after following the proper procedures. and she didn't leave classified tech lying around in a hospital

[Dani347]

I find it remarkable that people are actually trying to rationalize his actions and the writers' decisions.

Not trying to rationalize. To me, that sounds like there's only one way to see it, and any other interpretations must be some mental tap dancing on the part of viewers. It's just possible that people happen to view it differently. If some people see an exaggerated superhero, that's fine. I don't think you're trying to find bad writing in Mitchell. I think that's what you see. And, what I saw, with no rationalizing, was something that didn't strike me as all that superheroic. It was the final piece in the whole rescue. When I looked, I didn't see that Mitchell had done anything so fantastic that no one else could do it, or that would give him a medal or a statue of himself in the SGC. It was such a small thing. And, Sam's attitude where she said she didn't think she could stop him conveyed to me that it wasn't some fantastic thing that she was overwhelmed by him or simpering about how cool it was that he was going to rescue Teal'c.

Of course, I thought the whole battle itself was instrumental to rescuing Teal'c as well as Daniel and Bra'tac gathering intel, and Teal'c not really being brainwashed at all. So, to me, the rescue of Teal'c did not come down singlehandedly to Mitchell. It came down to all of them.

If you see it differently, that's fine. But, I don't think I'm trying to rationalize.

[AGateFan]

and inboth cases, when sam told jacob and when she told pete, she had permission from her boss to reveal classified info. in fact, george was in the room when sam told dad. and when she told pete, she not only got permission but read him chapter and verse on the treason he'd be committing if he told anyone else.

sam did tell those two men what was going on. after following the proper procedures. and she didn't leave classified tech lying around in a hospital

Ok, just because I have said so many negative things about poor old Mitch.....

As far as telling his friend, it appears that he followed procedure correctly.

He also voluteenered to pay for the coffee machine he broke.

And as far as the device being left behind goes. I am going with the "there was someone from the SGC waiting outside the room to pick it up when the guy was done with it" theory. Although the fact that they had a Lt Col (who was going offworld in an hour) deliver it in the first place still confuses me.... but this is the story I am going with on this.

[Dani347]

and inboth cases, when sam told jacob and when she told pete, she had permission from her boss to reveal classified info. in fact, george was in the room when sam told dad. and when she told pete, she not only got permission but read him chapter and verse on the treason he'd be committing if he told anyone else.

sam did tell those two men what was going on. after following the proper procedures. and she didn't leave classified tech lying around in a hospital

I never said she didn't have permission. I said that the writer made a point of saying that her circumstances for telling were different than Mitchell's. I don't know why I'm coming across as saying that what she did was the same as Mitchell or that she didn't have permission (which is a moot point because the question of telling without permission never came up), when I was trying to convey the exact opposite. The permission thing was already taken care of in for both of them. Mitchell and Sam had been given permission. I don't know why Landry was willing, but he was. But, the point I was making was that they did say that Sam had very good reasons for doing so. It wasn't the same thing as Mitchell's reasons, and the conversation was very clear on that. I was not saying Sam did anything wrong. The exact opposite.

Anyway, the post I responded to said that they felt that the writers were trying to say that Sam told Jacob and Pete for a lark, or just because she wanted to, and new viewers would feel it was the same thing as Mitchell telling his friend. And, I was saying that to my view, they specifically did not do that, they instead said right out the reasons why Sam needed to tell them. That new viewers would be able to grasp that it wasn't just because Sam wanted to tell, but that she had two good reasons to do so.

[KillerMercury]

Okay, so here's the highlights of my "review":

*ahem*

-It's good to see the struggle within the Jaffa Council, even though I have no experience in politics, it looked difficult to convince all of them.

-I know she's been there since last season, but come on: Kal'el? Am I the only one who thinks of a certain superhero whenever her name is called? It feels like I'm watching the wrong channel!

-Bra'tac rocks. PERIOD.

-That Jaffa in Ba'al's mothership looks so much like Fanty and Mingo from Serenity. Dunno which one. Either that or I'm hallucinating.

-A hospital just for Stargate-related injuries and illnesses? Cool.

-We learn various things about Cam: he went to the Academy, he's reckless, hot-headed, tends to move from one woman to another, and tends to crack under peer pressure. Even though he could've stood by his case a little bit longer, IMO, it was inevitable for this to happen.

-I love Sam taking charge! YEAH!

All in all, good episode. 8.5/10!