Stronghold (914)

[chocdoc]

After the disaster that was Ripple Effect, I was worried about this week's episode, but it turned out ok. It's not my favorite of the season, but it deserves an 8.5-9/10.

I usually find the Jaffa plot a bit dry, but tonight it was well done. The writers did an excellent job of incorporating former story lines, and the only thing I missed was Teal'c son. Is the boy still on his honey moon? The cost of leadership and the development of the Jaffa are coming along nicely.

The Mitchell storyline was a bit cliche, but it worked. I agree with the posters who argue that his subsequent behavior evolved from the discussion with his friend. The final scene with Teal'c was well done, and the battle scene was important.

(Please don't flame me for the following statements
The battle scene illustrated the point that Mitchell's friend made: Good leaders sometimes break the rules and "do" instead of "think." Sam is an acceptable team leader, but as we've seen in episodes like Gemini, she is not the best leader. She thinks when she should act sometimes. Mitchell did override her command, but her battle tactics were getting nowhere fast. His actions allowed more soldiers to survive, saved Teal'c, and saved Bra'tac.

Yes, his actions were out of line, but many SG-1 episodes show similar successes for the characters who don't always listen to their superiors: i.e. Carter staying with Cassie; Jack on a regular basis; and Daniel in almost every episode for the first 3-4 years of the show.

Overall, I liked the episode. Not every episode can be 10/10, but the episode handled two plots, character development, and resolution well.

I see what you are saying, but if Sam and Daniel had not gone after Mitchell, he would be dead by now. He could have easily signalled what he planned to do. You have to act like a team, and I doubt Jack would have done this type of reckless behavior. He would have let the others know what he was doing.

Daniel isn't military, and Carter going back to Cassie was not putting others in danger.

[yowo]

This episode was OK. "Just trying to stay positive"
Just let me say that every week I watch Stategate and then watch it again when it comes on three hours later. This week I watched Stargate and then Three hours later I started watching Ripple Effect from last week until Sam and McKay came on...
Enough said.

[AGateFan]

I see what you are saying, but if Sam and Daniel had not gone after Mitchell, he would be dead by now. He could have easily signalled what he planned to do. You have to act like a team, and I doubt Jack would have done this type of reckless behavior. He would have let the others know what he was doing.

Daniel isn't military, and Carter going back to Cassie was not putting others in danger.

You rush ahead in an uncoordinated manner in a real battle, you die.
If he wanted to move forward then he should have ordered suppression fire and moved in a coordinated way not just rambo it up the hill. Seriously, if this wasn’t TV they would be pulling his dog tags right now.

Also noted he got owned by the fat jaffa, where’s the Sodan training (and didn’t they teach like calm, discipline in their training?). Lucky that jaffa was as moronic as the rest in this battle and didn’t think of the Zat first. Also lucky that Carter and Daniel did abandon their post to save him, they should have just let him get himself killed if that’s what he really wanted to do.

EDIT: And was it more obvious then in previous eps that the Jaffa were just standing around waiting to get shot? I really, really noticed them just standing there looking at the Alkesh as it mowed them all down.

[Dani347]

I didn't get a superhero feel about Mitchell, because it just seemed like the last part in the whole rescue of Teal'c. Plus, I liked that Sam did react to him racing off. It wasn't "oh, how wonderful that you did, Cam!" She was annoyed. To me, it came off as yes, it worked, but it was written as a flaw. I also agree that they do write the characters doing the wrong thing, acting impulsively, not strictly following the rules for the sake of drama. Which doesn't bother me, because I find it's something that happens in a lot of shows I watch.

[binkpmmc]

You rush ahead in an uncoordinated manner in a real battle, you die.
If he wanted to move forward then he should have ordered suppression fire and moved in a coordinated way not just rambo it up the hill. Seriously, if this wasn’t TV they would be pulling his dog tags right now.

I would love to have seen the reaction if this situation had been turned around between Lt. Colonels . . . .

[Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia]

EDIT: And was it more obvious then in previous eps that the Jaffa were just standing around waiting to get shot? I really, really noticed them just standing there looking at the Alkesh as it mowed them all down.

Counter-question: considering the "Free Jaffa Nation" movement, how many intelligent jaffa do you honestly think would remain in the service of Lord Baal? Really.

[the fifth man]

Counter-question: considering the "Free Jaffa Nation" movement, how many intelligent jaffa do you honestly think would remain in the service of Lord Baal? Really.

Maybe all had undergone his brainwashing technique. You know, Ba'al himself takes care of the first, and it continues on from there. Just a possibility.

[Dani347]

I would love to have seen the reaction if this situation had been turned around between Lt. Colonels . . . .

For me, if something similar was written in character (I don't know if the same thing would be in character for Sam, but something similar), and there was some indication that it wasn't all okay, that someone didn't like it (I mean on the show) I would be okay. I'd say it was a flaw, but I find it more annoying when people do something wrong and no one on the show seems to act like it.

[AGateFan]

Maybe all had undergone his brainwashing technique. You know, Ba'al himself takes care of the first, and it continues on from there. Just a possibility.

So the brainwashing makes them stupider then normal?

EDIT: BTW I do know that jaffa have always been stupid and have always waited around to be shot so this is nothing new. I dont know if it was the editing or what but in that one scene with the alkesh it just really really stuck out to me this week.

[majorsal]

k, i watched it. good ep!

first off, i really liked mitchell in this ep. he was serious and non-joke cracky. i felt for his situation. (ben's a good actor)



things i didn't care for:

torturing teal'c. why do we have to have a teal'c-torture literally every season. (((teal'c)))

mitchell's friend died.



things i'm in between about:

mitchell running off hot-headed in the heat of battle. i understand his feelings, but the writers need to tread very carefully with how mitchell comes off right now. i feel we had enough background on mitchell's state of mind to understand his hot-headedness at the moment, but... i just don't want him coming off bad when they need to show him with leadership material. you know what i mean?



things i liked:

sam leading!

seeing bra'tac.

serious mitchell.

i LOVED the reworking of the dialog (spoilers we'd gotten months ago) between sam and mitchell outside the hospital. it did NOT make sam AND mitchell out to be treasonists. YAY!!!


all in all, a good ep. rather mitchell heavy, but it's a good way of getting to know this new character.

now, will i rewatch this ep? yes, but i'll be fastforwarding through some parts to get to the parts i like (sam, sam, and did i mention sam? ). but that's not against mitchell or daniel or teal'c, etc; that's the way i always am when it comes to my fave characters/storylines.


this ep wasn't anti s/j shippy, so that's GOOD in my book!


sally

[Strix varia]

But no. Super!Mitchell (trademark pending) rushes in and takes everyone out on the ground and in the mothership. Did they bother ringing Daniel and Sam to the ship to help out? Who knows? But with Super!Mitchell by their side, Teal'c and Bratac were sure to clear out an entire mothership of Jaffa. By themselves.

Then Super!Mitchell goes on his own and takes out all the jaffa? Are you serious? And what, Daniel and Sam are just waiting in the ring room on the ground taking out any incoming Jaffa? Please.

During this scene one of my friends made the comment, "There goes Super Mitchell off to the rescue!" Another friend, "He must be related to Kal'el." I'm not a huge superman fan, so I didn't actually get the reference, and they had to explain the joke to me. But you aren't alone in your thought, Über.

I liked Mitchell for most of the episode, but his rushing off on his own made me groan. Two steps forward, two steps back. Why can't the writers just give me a Lt. Colonel I can respect? God knows he doesn't have to be perfect. But I would like him to be believable.

On the fireground, what Mitchell did is called freelancing. Freelancers rush into burning buildings to save people and end up dying themselves, or get their buddies killed trying to rescue them when they wind up in trouble. They may look like heroes to outsiders, but they're deadly to any firefighting unit. True, not all freelancers end up dead, and sometimes they do save people, but it's still a practice that is actively discouraged and frowned upon.

I seriously doubt if they are regarded any differently by the military.

The man is a Lt. Colonel, and he's supposed to be a leader, not a bad example. This is so cliche as to be painful, but it still applies: There is no "I" in team, but apparently there is in MItchell.

Did anyone else think he seemed to find the torture chamber awfully quickly and easily for someone who has never been on a mothership before?

I have no doubt Ba'al will be back. Why didn't they just zat his damn body three times and be done with it?

Leaving the machine in the hospital room didn't bother me. If it hadn't been the Academy hospital, it would have.

I enjoyed the scenes between Mitchell and his friend. I thought the two actors played it very well. I liked this Mitchell... I liked him much, much better than slapstick, yuk-yuk Mitchell, and OTT CMoH SuperMitchell. This was a caring, concerned, conflicted human being I could really grow to like a lot.

I enjoyed his scene with Sam, and I do like the way they are developing his friendship with her.

I would have liked to see more of Daniel, too, but as somebody else pointed out, at least he was being productive, and I did enjoy his interactions with other characters.

Sam is very believable in command.

Teal'c being tortured... yawn. But... any focus on Teal'c is nice. I didn't believe for a second he would kill Bra'tac. I'm glad they called Teal'c family, and I appreciated that everyone showed concern about his kidnapping.

Landry is growing on me every ep.

Loved Ba'al. I'm not a bit worried we won't see him again.

[MoebiusStrip]

This was a really solid episode. It had a little of everything and it was not rushed at all. I honestly believe this was the best episode for us to get to know Cameron better...better than Babylon personally.

I have a good feeling that Baal will appear again.

But at least we know now that there is still Jaffa in the free nation that still uses symbiotes.

My only knit pic is that the battle scene didn't really flow well...but still great to watch.

Overall: 4/5

[ann_sgcfan]

Wow.

What a crushing disappointment. Seriously painfully crushing blow.

We won't go into the fact that Mitchell apparently was allowed to leave the alien technology in his friend's room as he ran off to rescue Teal'c (not "help" rescue Teal'c, mind you, or work as part of a team...but actually go in and do it all by himself)...because that deserves a scathing post all of its own.

I liked Mitchell a little with his friend but this "woe is me/i don't deserve anything" attitude is getting old (same 'tude from Collateral Damage as he was reliving killing friendlys). So he feels guilty about what happened to his friend because of his impetuousness and yet apparently has done nothing to change that in himself (reference Mr. "I thought it was a light switch" from Prototype, the poor coffee machine and his incredibly reprimandworthy actions in battle in Stronghold). He learned nothing from his supposed "aha" moment where he acknowledges he cost his friend his life.

So whatever little respect I gained for Mitchell during his time with his friend, I lost ten-fold when he showed what an impetuous idiot he is on the battlefield...ignoring the others, ignoring Sam, who was in charge of the operation. Even when she ordered him to wait for backup, he ignored her and charged head on, forcing Daniel and Sam to abruptly abandon their positions to follow him. In other words, he endangered the lives of his team and the success of the mission because he is too impetuous.

I don't buy that Sam would have allowed him to go up to the mothership alone. That's just stupid. And IF it's because, as she said, she knew she couldn't stop him, that further proves he has no business being on the team. They are a team and they would have gone together to rescue Teal'c. Sam and Daniel would have gone up with him and they would have sabotaged that ring platform to prevent anyone from following. Further they...AS A TEAM...would have worked together AS A TEAM to rescue Teal'c AS A TEAM.

But no. Super!Mitchell (trademark pending) rushes in and takes everyone out on the ground and in the mothership. Did they bother ringing Daniel and Sam to the ship to help out? Who knows? But with Super!Mitchell by their side, Teal'c and Bratac were sure to clear out an entire mothership of Jaffa. By themselves.

Then Super!Mitchell goes on his own and takes out all the jaffa? Are you serious? And what, Daniel and Sam are just waiting in the ring room on the ground taking out any incoming Jaffa? Please.

I don't find the impetuousness endearing at all. I do however see it as my last straw with this character, who has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt to me that he has no business being on a team, much less the flagship team, MUCH LESS supposedly "co-leading" said team.

Congratulations to the PTB for successfully sabotaging the Mitchell character to the point where I don't think I'll ever like him. Also, congratulations on taking a pretty cool premise and turning it into an incredible COP OUT.

I soooo AGREE!!! I was looking forward to this episode after last week's previews and can't say how disappointed I was too!! This doesn't help the Mitchell character at all for me. There use to be so much potential. The writers continue to write him as an opposition to the team, not as an asset. The character doesn't have the team mind set that has always driven and created the great chemistry that was SG-1. SG-1 is constantly having to get him out of trouble.

I loved seeing Sam in charge!! The Sam/Cam friendship and Teal’c/ Cam friendship moments were touching. Daniel and Bra'tac looking for Teal'c were good moments. I loved the fact that Teal’c had a bigger part to play in this episode! I loved seeing Bra’tac. I also love Daniel, but when did he pick up Jack’s nervous habit (throwing a tennis ball against the wall?) Since when did Daniel bring toys (other than his books/ journals) to keep him entertained off world. It was odd. I saw Jack at that moment sitting there and not Daniel.

And has the Stargate become common knowledge at some point and I just didn’t see that episode? Why would Mitchell leave the device unattended in a Hospital where doctors and nurses are constantly coming and going?

[Michelle05]

I didn't get a superhero feel about Mitchell, because it just seemed like the last part in the whole rescue of Teal'c. Plus, I liked that Sam did react to him racing off. It wasn't "oh, how wonderful that you did, Cam!" She was annoyed. To me, it came off as yes, it worked, but it was written as a flaw.

I agree. I really enjoyed the episode -- both storylines, all the character moments, the guest characters, and most of all, the writing. After being drowned in exposition and technobabble for several weeks now, it was nice to see entire conversations be about the characters relating to each other instead of 'telling' the plot ad nauseum.

I thought the scene where Mitchell was trying to get the rings to work and the Jaffa came upon him was quite awkward and not a great directorial choice. The Jaffa would have just killed him on the spot. Also surprised he went alone onto the ship, but it worked okay.

I think we have enough Mitchell background now to move forward with the team, and I especially hope we see more of Daniel before the season is out.

I'm very glad Alan McCullough is writing more SG-1 episodes.

[majorsal]

Overall, I really enjoyed this episode. I'd have to give it a three out of four stars. The Jaffa politics don't bother me like they do some people, and of course I loved seeing our buddy Ba'al again. He just gets better and better. I mean come on, admitting that the Goa'uld may have gone a little far in their role-playing as Gods. That alone was priceless. I actually liked the Mitchell side-story as well, and the action at the end was great. Nice moment between Mitchell and Teal'c at the end, too.

so did i, and i give credit to good writing and the actors involved.

i'm glad mitchell was allowed to share his memories with his friend, which i think was a LOT better than just telling him about the program. his friend (can't remember his name ) didn't just want to know about the truth/program, he wanted to be a *part* of it (and mitchell knew it). mitchell gave his friend a chance to experience the wonders of it all... i wonder if his friend died while watching the memories? i wish mitchell could have been with him.

i think, when i rewatch this ep, i won't be skipping past the mitchell/friend stuff after all. (and that says a LOT)


sally