Collateral Damage (912)

[GateLadyM]

I liked this episode and I doubt Mitchell slept with the gal for reasons others stated (she was in the same outfit when she was dead). It didn't seem odd that he kissed her either. If it happens all the time it will become irritating though. We have enough boob chasing going on over in Atlantis, we don't need it on SG1.

As for Mitchell and Carter using first names, it seems that they have known each other for quite awhile. Perhaps TPTB will give us a hint of that down the road, but I don't see any romance, just good friends and teamwork.

I really enjoyed the scenes with the dad. Good to see backstory on the new characters.

[Lord Zedd]

First of all I would like to say I didn't love this episode at all. What a shame. This ain't stargate anymore. In the entire episode we haven't seen the stargate once !!! Not even the gateroom. What is happening with the show For Crying Out Loud. This is one of the most boring episodes of the entire 9 seasons. This story went only about Cameron Mitchell and not about SG.1. It was oh so boring and it looked like a very cheap episode. Definitly a episode filler. TPTB what the hell is wrong with you guys? Have you lost your thouch?

Ok so it was terrible to see the refugees getting killed and his dad getting that accident. Ok some good backgroundstory for Cameron Mitchell but what a bad episode ! This is just my opinion If you liked it good for you. I didn't so bad for me. I expected a bit more high quality. I expected SG.1 and Stargate and well we didn't get it !

[StarzSkyMoon]

im gonna take the polar opposite of this last post and say... i absolutely loved this episode!

One of the huge things that has bugged me about the new episodes of stargate is the lackadasical attitude about...well, pretty much everything. It was nice to see Cameron take such a passion in fighting for the truth and justice. I like that he also got a bit of backstory shown, and we saw a glimpse into deeper but... yes, darker side to Mitchell. I feel like this ep really helped to round him out some. And i loved the Carter/Mitchell friendship scenes too. And YEAH, for Daniel and Teal'c they were like CSI: Stargate

I love Ben Browder, and this episode really showed his strength in "angst" acting.

So overall, i think this ranks as one of my top eps for season 9

Lizbeth

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

I have mixed feelings about this ep.

The Good:

1)Cam's backstory. I feel I now have a better understanding of his remarks to Sam in Avalon 1: "What if the world needs saving because I screwed up because you weren't here in the first place?"

Cam has to live with a terrible burden because his back-up screwed up. He must have seen Sam - and Daniel and Teal'c for that matter, who have tons of experience saving the world from wierd aliens, as the best possible back-up.

2)His dad: Wow! The younger, hospitalized version looked so much like adult Cam that I could almost believe Ben Browder had been made-up for the role. Both the dad scenes were well played. Very nice work.

An Asgard-protected planet that actually progressed. Excellent continuity with Thor's Chariot and the Asgard tests to determine whether a civilisation was sufficiently advanced to communicate with them. Wonderful! Thank-you! Keep it up, guys!

A new use for an old plot device. Always nice.

The Not So Good:

Sam: While I accept that the three others had little to say & do in this one, I feel that Sam's part was especially... limp, mostly because she, of the three, had the most screentime, but did nothing interesting with it.

SG-1 wearing their BDUs to a diplomatic party. Why, why, why would they do that? Oh, well, I suppose I should be grateful they weren't toting their P-90s this time.

And while we're on the subject, Cam making out with an alien member of a diplomatic party. The Sam-and-Jack-should-be-courts-martialed-for-having-romantic-feelings people must just hate the new SGC standards of impropriety. I know that I do.

And finally, the whole false memory idea. I've never liked the direction SG has taken with that. First Linea, a psychopathic mass-murderer turns all sweetness and light when she forgets who she is, and now this time we get a guy who makes himself forget that he killed his ex. Fine, okay, as far as it goes(which is not very far, AFAIC), but he should still have had the personality of a jealous person. By all rights he should have still been murderously jealous of Cam.

B5 did this better: The protagonist had been a serial murderer who'd undergone the punishment of death of personality. Years later, vengeful grieving relatives of his victims assembled on B5 and reintroduced the memory of his crimes, confusing the hell out of this guy, who had built up a new, if false personality, and giving him some serious angst. But what can I say, JMS did everything better....

Still and all, CD was a pretty enjoyable ep, for the new SG. The memory time camera work was good, IMO, adding a nightmarish feel to scenes. I'd watch this one again.

[GateAngel]

First of all this is the FIRST episode where I really felt connected to the character of Cameron Mitchell. I thought that Ben did an amazing job with his role in this episode and I was on the edge of my seat worrying for Cameron as he went through the torture of sorting through the memories for the false ones. The parts that we saw of his background and his relationship with his dad made Cameron Mitchell very real. When Cameron was sitting in that briefing after the botched bombing raid and knowing he had killed innocent people by accident, it was heart rendering and powerful.

I liked when Mitchell said he hoped there would dancing (and I was disappointed when we didn't get to see dancing and why the heck was SG-1 in BDU's instead of formal dress clothing. Did they think the others a the party wouldn't know they were 'The People from Earth' or what?). It was endearing and
was a nice touch for the character. In this episode I actually enjoyed the banter between Daniel and Mitchell. I loved when Mitchell said, after Dr. Reya went to talk to someone else that 'maybe diplomicy wasn't his thing' and Daniel, who had been observing Mitchell and Reya flirting with each other says 'so that's what you call that' in his lowkey sense of dry wit humor. That was Daniel Jackson to me.

All in all this was great character development for Cameron Mitchell.

However it really bothers me that they had to separate Ben Browder from the rest of the cast to bring his character forward, like it was meant to keep Mitchell from fading into the background.

It was also very obvious that Mitchell/ Browder is being pushed as the 'strong romantic hero lead' type for this show. If you will notice there were only two women in this episode that weren't background material and Mitchell was the focus of BOTH their undivided attention. Dr. Reya focused on him as a love interest/romantic partner and Sam Carter focused on him by being the worried and supportive in a nurturing way team member, her behavior was very 'feminine'. However it was very canonicly 'Sam Carter' since she was this way with Jack in Solitudes and with Cassie in Singularity.

I realize this 'strong romantic hero lead' type is the main reason Ben Browder was chosen as the new lead of the show (and probably why he was their first choice to play Pete Shannahan). RDA was always the strong, romantic hero lead type as well. This was evident in the early seasons when Jack was romancing Kynthia and Laira. Like RDA, Ben Browder was the lead actor in another series where he was the 'strong romantic hero' type. Farscape to me was a as much about John Crighton's romance with Aeryn Sun as it was about his efforts to get back home. If nothing else, that was a very successful aspect of Farscape and Ben pulled it off well.

While many of us do see the talent that is Michael Shanks, he has never really gotten the full chance to played the strong romantic lead type in anything. He had the opportunity for Sumuru to be something close to that, but it never reached it's potential. It might seem odd, but IMHO by keeping Daniel Jackson out of stories that made him the strong romantic lead (questing to find Sha're was not the same to me), it might have worked to his disadvantage.

Back to the story line of Collatral Damage. The one thing that really didn't make sense to me was the reaction from Daniel, Teal'c and Sam about this so called 'new technology' that the people of this world
had. So they have memory altering/implanting technology. Big deal.

And why would the chiefs of staff or whomever be salivating over it when the SGC theoreticly has had access to this type of thing since their encounter with the Orban people back in season 3. They were able to transfer knowlege through the nanites. I mean by now someone has perfected and refined the process. Why haven't they been working with that lady doctor SG1 met up with in the episode Beneath the Surface in season 4 or why didn't they work with the scientist from the 7th season episode Revisions to perfect their technology of instantly transferring memories (which btw was also written by M&M whom I'm beginning to suspect has a fascination with this subject, which isn't a bad thing)?

Why did they have to leave Mitchell on the planet and put him through that torture when they just could have dialed up the Tok'ra and asked them to bring along their zaytarc detection machine from the episode Divide and Conquer that can pinpoint false memories just like that!

Also this seemed to be an ironic episode to be running AFTER the episode where Orlin couldn't hold onto his memories. To me there should have been SOME mention from Sam about how this technology would have been useful or had been able to perserve Orlin's memories of his ascended knowledge. It didn't have to be a big line, but it would have made for interesting continuity.

Dispite these inconsistancies and deliberate disassociation with the past, I still liked this episode and I enjoyed learning about Mitchell and I thought Ben Browder did a terrific job.

Oh and Tatiania Shanks was adorable too.

[Jades]

I liked when Mitchell said he hoped there would dancing (and I was disappointed when we didn't get to see dancing and why the heck was SG-1 in BDU's instead of formal dress clothing. Did they think the others a the party wouldn't know they were 'The People from Earth' or what?).

The only reason I can think of (in reference to Sg-1 wearing BDU's) is that the show seems to try and portray the US Air Force in a positive light. I think repeated images of an officer in Air Force dress uniform beating a woman to death may not have gone down too well, it seems a lot less contentious to have them wearing the more non-descript BDU`s.

I enjoyed this ep as well. I thought Ben Browder did a great job in portraying Mitchell's grief, confusion and guilt over the situation and I really liked the rest of the team's contribution - especially D and T haranguing the emissary and Sam supporting Mitchell.

I also liked the lighting in some scenes (eg. the jail cell) and how the flashbacks were shot, as well as the sterile and minimalist looking sets and costumes. It gave the ep an edgy and oppressive feel.

[Zelda]

I like this episode even better the second time I watched it! A+

Thank you, NotAscended. I came across your post while reading this thread and the part of the discussion that wondered if Mitchell was appropriate in his flirtation during a diplomatic mission off world. I watched the episode again, and I think you are right. Mitchell's immediate attraction to Raya was the result of the initial memory transplant.

I've come to the conclusion after watching the episode again and discussing plot points on another bboard that there is a lot going on beneath the surface in this episode and the plot is more complex than is first apparent.

I payed closer attention to the initial memory transplant scene in which Mitchell is the Ambassador. It is subtle, but the Ambassador is a bit more interested in the scientist than he should be. Note the Ambassador/Mitchell lightly running his fingers over the sleeve of Raya's robe and watch how he's looking at her as he's saying many good things are expected of her. The set up is strange, too. It is night, Raya is coming from another part of the house, in a robe, saying she was not expecting anyone, while the Ambassador has somehow let himself in and made himself comfortable with a drink. The entire setup is creepy. It's not overt but it is pretty certain the Ambassador is interested in the scientist in a non-professional way (thank you Ben for that subtle performance as creepy Ambassador).

And, when you think about that, that particular memory may have been selected as the implant partly to interest the Tauri diplomat in Raya with the goal of obtaining favorable reports for the negotiation with the Tauri regarding the technology swap. Daniel and Teal'c wondered why so much of Raya's information had been censored by the government; perhaps her affair with the Ambassador and the true extent of technological advancement of the device were conveniently removed.

Then add how familiar Mitchell felt in her house.

Then add that it is not logistically or logically possible for the killer to have done the deed on his own, erased his own memory and transplanted a duplicate memory since it was noted several times during the episode that the false memory had to be implanted in a precise way in order for the splice to be undetectable. It just makes sense that there had to be an accomplice. Unless there is a portable device, and the technological understanding of the splicing technique was much more advanced than the scientists were admitting.

Perhaps Raya felt double-crossed at the reception when she received the note that she was to be removed as project manager and the military arm of the government was going to usurp the technology for its' own purposes. Maybe the Ambassador and others thought she would be angry and indiscreet enough to spill the plan to Mitchell. So they planned to kill her, implant the murder memory in Mitchell whom they thought would use the diplomatic immunity and leave and that they could also use his supposed guilt as the murderer as leverage in contract negotiations.

Of course, all of the above is speculation.

Anyway, thank you creative team! Whether by accident or by design, this is an intriguing, plot twisting mystery. I hope SG1 will revisit this planet in the future; I really enjoy the deviousness of the government.

[Colonel Dixon]

I know it's been brought up before, but I just felt the need to vent about Daniel's line, "Wow, on Earth we have to prove guilt." I really hope they aren't trying to turn Daniel into Jack. After Season 1's "Cor-Ai", I don't think anyone on SG-1 would have said something like that. If they had given the line to Mitchell, I would have been perfectly fine with that. It would have worked well as an homage to "Cor-Ai", especially if Daniel corrected him. But please, it was a horrible and very non-Daniel moment.

[the fifth man]

I also liked the lighting in some scenes (eg. the jail cell) and how the flashbacks were shot, as well as the sterile and minimalist looking sets and costumes. It gave the ep an edgy and oppressive feel.

I know what you mean, and couldn't agree more. Very clever way of shooting the ep.

As for the episode itself, I swear it gets better and better each time I watch it. I can't get over how well tptb and BB progressed his character in this one. I really feel that this ep will help a lot of people out there gain some sort of connection with Mitchell, if they haven't already.

[Cynicat]

I quite enjoyed this episode, it was an excellent example of a standalone, and a good episode in its' own right. A tight plot, The exploration into Mitchell's backstory was well done - I especially liked the link between his father's accident, and Mitchell's stubborness and determination following his own.

With regards to other film/TV parallels, I'm surpirsed nobody has mentioned Alex Proyas' "Dark City", it was my first thought at the begining of the episode. The opening sequence especially was very similar - Mitchell's confusion, finding the body etc, all parallel to the begining of "Dark City". The offworld production design reminded me of Vincenzo Natali's "Cypher" - the stark cleanliness of everything, the re-occuring lines and grid patterns, the lack of detail in their clothing (though, with regards to costumes, enough with the jackboots for offworld military!). Even the memory-diddling device had similarities to one seen early in "Cypher".

Effects-wise, the entire fighter sequence was excellent. The VFX just keep getting better in this show

Cine-wise - I'm a little divided about the style of the flashbacks. The jumping about reminded me of David Fincher's signature film-jumping-out-of-the-gate technique (used to great effect in "Fight Club", and even A Perfect Circle's "Judith" music video). Even the lighting scheme was a little Fincher-y - with the blown-out highlights, and green-ish filter. It was cool, but maybe a little overdone. Though subtlety has never been a strong point with SG.

Going handheld in the scene where Carter, Jackson & Teal'c confront the Emissary about Mitchell's whereabouts and during their discussion in the cell was an interesting choice, but I'm not sure it worked. They've tried going handheld at various times in SG1 and SGA lately, usually in an attempt to increase the tension in a scene, but personally I've never felt that the existing level of tension warranted it, it always just came off as a bit gratuitous.

The lighting in the cell was very interesting - Teal'c, Carter and Jackson are lit almost like players on a stage, and the backlighting on Mitchell was very effective.

As first mentioned by knowsfords, a nice reuse of a spiffy prop in the form of the "Revisions" console.


Browder does good angst. And damn, does he look fine in those black scrubs...

Walter's stumbling over the medicobabble was cute, yet also in character - he's a 'gateroom tech, that kind of stuff would have no interest or meaning to him.

Quotage:

Mitchell: "I'm hoping there'll be dancing." I also loved Landry's reaction to this line, as though the mental image of Mitchell shaking his booty had just sprung unbidden to mind. lol

Mitchell: "I don't think diplomacy is my thing."
Jackson: "Oh, that's what you're doing..."
Sam: *heehee*

I also admired the shot of the Stargate Command conference room from outside the window. Since I know that the conference room is three stories up, and I'm not sure they can get a camera crane in the Gate Room, they must have had the camera operator on a pretty tall ladder.

A Jimmy Jib can have up to a 40ft (12m) reach, with full operator control at all times. It's got a fairly small footprint, and can be packed up into four cases for easy transport.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

I know it's been brought up before, but I just felt the need to vent about Daniel's line, "Wow, on Earth we have to prove guilt."

Which is hardly an exact representation of fact, is it? I don't know the stats, but I'm willing to bet that, on Earth, more countries subscribe to the "guilty until proven innocent" system than otherwise.

And even in so-called enlightened countries, once you've been accused of a crime - especially if the media gets wind of it - it's extremely hard to be innocent in the public perception - even if you've been "proven" innocent.

Daniel, of all characters, should never utter such words. He was an anthropologist, FCOL. A true professional would never judge one society by the standards of another. Unfortunately he's had such lines thrust unto him throughout the series.

[Zoser]

snipped

I have mixed feelings about this ep.



And finally, the whole false memory idea. I've never liked the direction SG has taken with that. First Linea, a psychopathic mass-murderer turns all sweetness and light when she forgets who she is, and now this time we get a guy who makes himself forget that he killed his ex. Fine, okay, as far as it goes(which is not very far, AFAIC), but he should still have had the personality of a jealous person. By all rights he should have still been murderously jealous of Cam.

B5 did this better: The protagonist had been a serial murderer who'd undergone the punishment of death of personality. Years later, vengeful grieving relatives of his victims assembled on B5 and reintroduced the memory of his crimes, confusing the hell out of this guy, who had built up a new, if false personality, and giving him some serious angst. But what can I say, JMS did everything better....

Still and all, CD was a pretty enjoyable ep, for the new SG. The memory time camera work was good, IMO, adding a nightmarish feel to scenes. I'd watch this one again.

I had a inkling of that memory but it wouldn't come to the forefront of my mind (I could have used that memory device)- B5 - the one with the monks who wipe the murder's memory and accept him as a monk. TPTB need to find some scripts with something original!! Or if they must rehash at least put an original spin on it.

[Zoser]

snipped

Also this seemed to be an ironic episode to be running AFTER the episode where Orlin couldn't hold onto his memories. To me there should have been SOME mention from Sam about how this technology would have been useful or had been able to perserve Orlin's memories of his ascended knowledge. It didn't have to be a big line, but it would have made for interesting continuity.

A case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.
Are there no meetings in the beginning of TPTB's year where the plot out the season. You would thing these link would make the Stargate world more believable. It makes our heros seem like fools if they do not learn from or use their past experiences. Paging George Santayana.

[Daniel's_twin]

Sorry if these things have already been posted, but I don't have time to read all the posts.

I'd say this was an excellent episode. I read a few of the spoilers and thought that this would be lackluster, but I was pleasantly surprised with what I got. Instead of just SG-1's attempt to pull a Matlock-kind of sci-fi stunt out of Carter's head or something like that, I found this to be a wonderful background-story on Cam. A lot of fans have been complaining that we haven't seen enogh backstory on him besides just the fact that he crashed in Antarctica and recovered. Now, we know a little bit about him growing up (I admire his father) and some of his personal demons.

The sci-fi stuff was also kinda cool. The problems faced with memory-altering technoogy was handled well, I think. I can't wait to see if there'll be any repercussions from this.

I'd give this, along with just about every other ep of SG-1 this past season, five out of five stars.

[Traveler Enroute1]

I kept changing my mind about who I thought was guilty, and I was intrigued by the twist at the end that there is a murderer than doesn't remember his crime. The ending was kind of dark and made me wonder what other kinds of things this government will do with the memory technology--could be scary.

So, a mixed review on this one. Some nice bits, but the big picture was lacking something.

<<my snips>>

My thoughts, too, Jace021903. Can earth really trust these folks after this? Their memory device seems more politically controlled than military, which "looks like trouble to me!" (What a choice, political or military, FCOL!) How will they know if any SGC member won't return from this planet as their version of a Manchurian Candidate (or za'tarc)?

Just sayin', if this is groundwork for future stories on the effect of this device on relations with earth, or even earth's attempts to use it, cool. Hope the writers don't just forget they wrote that a member of the elite offworld team was framed for murder by these people who barely blinked an eye about it. Follow up on this device (and earth's defense against it) sounds very necessary.