The Fourth Horseman, Part 2 (911)

[Osiris-RA]

you'll get hardly any entertainment from watching the show if you sit there thinking of reasons why it is good or not

Actually, there's lots of entertainment in it. Why do you think people watch American Idol auditions or Master P on Dancing with the Stars?

[Dani347]

remember that the original Orlin spoke in a 'dead-pan' style, but it didn't work then, and having the kid speak like that didn't work now (it's like Bud York's performance in "Harold and Maude").

I liked Harold and Maude. Maybe that's why I thought Orlin was pretty good.

I, for one, thought the banter with the prior was ridiculous - stupid one-liners that let the writer avoid putting any real though into the scene.

Honestly, I didn't think it should have worked. I would have found it much more realistic if the prior had said, "We mock what we don't understand," or something else like that. I just don't buy that what they did would get through to him.

it's really too bad that Lam's dialogue was so on-the-nose in that scene

Could you explain that expression?

[Battousai the Manslayer]

Honestly, I didn't think it should have worked. I would have found it much more realistic if the prior had said, "We mock what we don't understand," or something else like that. I just don't buy that what they did would get through to him.

The way I rationalize this is that Earth culture, with it's television and pop culture and so on is probably wayyyyy more advanced than other civilizations at mocking and sarcasm.

[Hubble]

I agree. I went into this without expecting anything more than an ordinary episode and given the general tone of what many have said, perhaps even lowered expectations. And as a result I was actually Ok with it. The only things that stuck out was Daniel's handkerchief on his head, which bugged me for some reason and the joking with the prior which seemed a bit out of place given the situation. Everything else made for a decent TV watching experience.

I think sometimes people love the show so much that they're really invested in the way everything's presented. But sometimes it's not perfect; sometimes it's just OK. But it can be enjoyed if you let go of your expectations.

If I watch it a second time, maybe then I'll pay more attention to its failings.

Glad I'm not the only one. The Daniels' handerchief/bandana on his head bugged me as well. I always thought the reason he wore that was so sweat wouldn't run into his eyes when he was busy diggin' around in the dirt and being an archeologist. I found it appropriate and "cool" then. But he wasn't going on any archeology dig and I just could not see why he would wear it. (Of course I know a bunch of women find it sexy, so maybe the writers threw it in for them.) A tiny thing, but it rather annoyed me and I kept focusing on it. And I agree, Mitchell and the backwards hat thing for me, just reminds me of Jack and makes me miss him. So, I think they should stop with the backwards hat thing for Mitchell.

[Cinephilic TV Addict]

Could you explain that expression?

Sure - when dialogue is "on-the-nose" that means a character is expressing exactly what they feel, think, believe, etc. In other words, the scene is about exactly what the scene is about - there is no subtext.

This is bad writing - TV shows today (good ones) avoid this like the plague (no pun intended on the prior's), and for good reasons -

1) It is always jarring, corny, awful, etc. (it draws the viewer out of the moment).

2) It is not real - people rarely ever say exactly what the feel. We lie, fib, and fudge the truth for our own selfish purposes. And when people do say exactly how they feel (on TV) that moment must be earned - the whole episode had better be spectacluar to justify such crap.

3) And most importantly, if you are a writer trying to get a television job, and you use on-the-nose dialogue in your script, you can consider yourself a self-proclaimed unemployed writer!

Basically, the way good TV works is that the scenes are always made about something else - it can be anything, tangible or not, but the character's don't say exactly what's on their minds. Then, some part of the episode reveals this subtext (only once!) which lets the viewer go - "oh, so THAT's what it's really about!"

Lam just blurted out her emotions (to a group of people no less) - it was about exactly what it was about, and it was not 'earned.' It was just terrible.

For another example look to the scene with T and Bretak on the pel'tak (and this isn't the best example because it did get a little on the nose, but it will suffice). They talk about Bretak leading the Jaffa nation, but what T is really saying is how much he respects Bretak and believes in him, without saying "Bretak - I respect and/or believe in you. Lead us, dudeski." A similar occurance occurs with T and Garreck - they make the scene about Garreck's dead father, NOT about the fate of all Jaffa.

And, surprise surprise, these were the best two scenes in the episode!

Hope this helps!

[golfbooy]

Ok, here we go--the return of my useless ditherings about Stargate.

Overall, I liked it. Not the best episode ever, but certainly not the worst. The plot worked OK considering how broken up the cast was. If I had my way, I'd take the team together every time, but this was pretty good. I thought that the script was well written, and I thought that a couple of scenes were really well concieved.

Teal'c and Bra'tac on the mothership was as good as it gets, as was Teal'c's impassioned argument against the Ori when conversing with Gerak. I also thought that the scene where Landry and Orlin talk to the prior was well thought out, too. I particularly liked that Orlin knew about the prior, I liked that little concession of power to the Ancients. The Ancients still seem to be as detached as ever, and that works for me. Though I am a bit intrigued by Orlin's statement that it was when the prior "entered this galaxy" that Orlin knew all about him. At first glance it seems that the writers are taking the first real steps we've seen to limit what has been up until now the omniscient nature of the Ancients. At least that's what I'm calling it until they give us more.

I agree that the whole plague aspect of the story needed more gravity, but am at a loss as to how that could have been adequately achieved. I hate to suggest it, but aside from inserting a few random shots of sick people around the globe or nations erupting into chaos over the emergency, the only way I can think to make the plague more "real" would be to personalize it. And I mean in a more significant way than having Landry idiotically travel offworld and contract the virus. No, I think if the plague element was ever really going to have teeth, then someone would have to die. And it would have to be someone we all like and know well, otherwise it would play as trivially as Mitchell's illness did in The Powers That Be. So that counts out Mitchell and Landry. And I dare say that Carter, Teal'c, and Daniel are all pretty indestructible. No, that somone has to have a real connection with the audience. That someone has to be universally loved. That someone's death has to be a real blow to Stargate. That someone would have to be George Hammond. Yup, Hammond would have to be toast. And I'm not saying that that is the right thing to do. To be honest, I'd much rather sacrifice the tension of the plague story and keep Hammond alive. So, in that respect, I'm happy with the episode. I'm just saying, to make the plague story really hit home, someone had to bite it. And in this story, that would have been Hammond.

As for Orlin and Sam, meh. I've never been as enamored of Orlin as a character as most other fans, and I've been particularly dreading his return in this two-parter. Thankfully, his role in the episode was rather minimal; I daresay it's as small as "the return of Orlin" could have been done. For all that though, I'm sad to see Sam's role so marginalized for the shock value of what turned out to be an ill-executed character bring-back. The unavailability of Sean Patrick Flannery should have scuttled Orlin's presence in this episode, something that is only more apparent after watching Cameron Bright struggle with the role. I thought after Part I, and now only moreso after Part II, that the kid just comes across as so flat and monotone, so completely devoid of any onscreen presence, that this whole part of the story could never work. We were all watching Cameron Bright on tv, not Orlin. The information about the Ori and the Ancients that Orlin imparted to the team (and to us) is seminal to the future of SG-1. It needed to be delivered with more gravity and oomph.

As for the characters, let me first get it out of the way and say that Chris Judge absolutely stole the whole show. He was terrific, certainly his best peformance of the season so far. And it was nice to see Teal'c really involved and driving the action for a change. The importance given to the Jaffa nation stuff and Teal'c's role in keeping that nation together was very appropriate, and after watching this I can't help but think that the Jaffa and Teal'c should have had a much, much bigger role in the opening 3-parter. I still say lose the campy Mitchell sword fight and leave the Jaffa nation elements in those early episodes. Anyway, Chris Judge was great in Fourth Horseman II, as were Tony Amendola and Louis Gossett. Once again I have to beg--please, please, please don't ever kill Bra'tac. He's still the best recurring character the Stargate franchise has ever seen. Kudos to whoever cast Tony Amendola way back in season one. I can only hope that Chris Judge gets more to do and more meaty stuff in the future. His Teal'c is as great a fit as ever for SG-1, even if he really should still be bald.

My feelings about Mitchell are mixed in this one. As a serious, intelligent player in the story Mitchell did some of his best stuff yet. When talking with Haikon and Jolan, and when making his assault on the Prior, Mitchell fits nicely in the story. I was disappointed to see how quickly he fell back into his role as the show's "walking joke factory". In an otherwise serious episode, I found Cam's one-liners out of place and more grating than usual. And I really didn't like how Landry showed up off world and shifted the focus of that part of the story away from Cam and Daniel. So far this season, Beau Bridges' Landry has been far more involved with the team than Mitchell has, and for the character to have any chance that needs to change.

Daniel. Sadly, his rather inconsequential role in Part I was not improved upon here. There was more for his character to do in this episode than he did. I saw little reason to leave Daniel in his cell while Cam talks with the Sodan. For that matter, I really saw little reason for Daniel to be off-world with Cam at all. Daniel should have been making that speech to the Prior, not Landry. Daniel makes empassioned pleas on behalf of the Universe, not Mitchell and not Landry. Anything more than inane, throw-away lines would have been welcome. His banter with Mitchell was humor for humor's sake, not really adding anything to the story.

Sam didn't really play a vital role in this one. I'm not sure what I expected regarding her part, but it sure wasn't the couple of repetitive scenes we got. Though, I suspect that this has more to do with Amanda Tapping's gradual return to work rather than anything else. That said, I think she did well with what she was given. For all the super-imposed musical cues and "pity me" dialogue Orlin kept spewing, it's only Tapping's performance that gives this part of the story any small bit of emotional depth. I'm looking forward to Sam playing a bigger role in the coming episodes, which were shot after hiatus.

That just leaves Landry and Lam. I've been saying this all along, but I'm really not having the same difficulties with this storyline that many others seem to be. The scene in the infirmary, where so many people saw her as petty or petulant, is really about how much she still loves and cares about her father. She thinks he's going to die. He thinks he's going to die. And rather than being "OK" with it, she's pissed. She's pissed because she can't help him, she's pissed because her relationship with him is so strained. And rather than muttering platitudes she tells him the one thing that really could console him--that she understands why he's done things the way he has. That worked for me.

More than anything else, I think that this was a nice end to Gerak's storyline. I know not many people have taken to the character, but his role as the internally-conflicted figurehead of the future Jaffa nation ended up bringing about real character growth for Teal'c, Bra'tac, and the Jaffa as a people. Ultimately, Gerak's function was to find a place for the Jaffa in the new Ori-threatened galaxy. He did that well, and that makes his character a worthwhile endeavor and a success. At least by my reckoning, that is.

Bring on Collateral Damage next week.

[NakedJehutyV2]

could someone give me a summary of it?

anyone know if it'll reair anytime soon?

[michael]

The best part of the show.

Prior talking and talking about impending doom.

Mitchell walks away:" I'm gonna get something to eat. "

[FoolishPleasure]

I have to admit, I was laughing when he spilled the vial on the floor and got yelled at by one of the scientists. Only to walk right out of the quarantine area...I thought he would spread disease around or something.

Actually, when Orlin spilled the vials and walked out the door, there WAS a sign outside of the door that said "Decontamination Area", but it wasn't easy to spot. I was actually looking for it as I couldn't believe he would just walk out of the room.

[Scandrea]

This was an OK episode, I thought. Good, not great, but not horrible either. Teal'c and Gerak definitely stole the show, though I'm kind of sad about what happened to G. in the end- maybe that's the point.

The actor that played Orlin wasn't very convincing to me. I don't know. Just wasn't there.

Dan/Cam isn't Daniel/Jack, but it doesn't have to be.

The big problem I think has already been stated more eloquently than I could:

There is an issue that keeps this from being an above-and-beyond outstanding episode, and unfortunately it's something that permeates most of the scenes: Telling, not showing. The plague spreading, governments on edge, Orlin suffering, Landry getting the plague, Gerak threatening to bring about his goals by force ... all of these came out almost exclusively through dialogue. I love good dialogue, but in episodes like this its overuse turns an adventure show into a talky.

[BigGator5]

The best part of the show.

Prior talking and talking about impending doom.

Mitchell walks away:"I'm gonna get something to eat."

That was funny! I let out a loud "HA!" when he did that. Then when it goes back to them, he has an apple and talking about an omelet.

It's little things like that, that really puts a human side to the show.

To Daniel's bandana: He's always wore that thing. I like him with it and he knew he might get dirty. Daniel's cool.

[Dani347]

Sure - when dialogue is "on-the-nose" that means a character is expressing exactly what they feel, think, believe, etc. In other words, the scene is about exactly what the scene is about - there is no subtext.



For another example look to the scene with T and Bretak on the pel'tak (and this isn't the best example because it did get a little on the nose, but it will suffice). They talk about Bretak leading the Jaffa nation, but what T is really saying is how much he respects Bretak and believes in him, without saying "Bretak - I respect and/or believe in you. Lead us, dudeski."


Hope this helps!

snipped quote for brevity. Yes, it does help, and I like the example you gave here.

[AGateFan]

That might have helped.

I keep thinking of that episode of 24 a couple of seasons ago when the virus got loose. They had all those people locked up in that hotel and the agent had to shoot a man who tried to leave. You saw the affects of the virus and it became very personal, both for the people who had the disease and those who tried to contain it.

Atlantis did the virus better in hotzone too.

[Zoser]

I thought the acting was flat, except for the scene with the old coot Bra'tac, and for the most part the story was without any tension. The population of the world about to be wiped out by the plague but where was the fear, the panic, or casual concern - I didn't see it.

What I really want to know is:
Who was running the base when Landry was in the infirmary? You remember 'chain of command'.
Why was Hammond of Texas out of uniform?
If the ancients are threatened are those with the ancient gene in jeopardy too?
Why no mention of Jack O'Neill? - I miss him.

[PG15]

Easily one of the best episodes in the last few seasons. 5/5

Ok, some points:

I got teary eyed during the Landry/Lam scene at the end

I feel sorry for the Cigarette-smoking Prior. We didn't even see him do anything really evil (until the end).

The Ori are coming to destroy the Ancients! This is going to be pretty epic...sweet.

Bra'tac for president!!!

I have empathy for Gerak; I think he was a successful character ("but I die free!").

A lot of funny lines, and great banter between Daniel and Cam.

The look on the CS Prior's face when he lost his powers was just awesome. I actually cheered in that scene!

Talk about BS rhetoric, the Ori should write for Bra'tac when he becomes president.

That little scene with General Hammond and the team was just...heaven. A little piece of the past.

Poor Orlin! Maybe he'll get his memory restored by the Ancients sometime in the future, that'll be good.

Odd that nobody said anything about the fact that the last time Cam was in Sodan world, they'd thought he was dead.

More Walter!!

Good to see support for Teal'c

Bra'tac back in armor, about damn time!

Saw the solution ~7 minutes before it happened. Not too bad. I'll miss Gerak.