Babylon (908)

[esoap524]

In regards to the way Mitchell fired the P-90, Vala fired it the same way in The Powers That Be and I don't think a single negative comment was made about it then.

I think the main difference there is that Mitchell is military so presumably has been trained in firing a gun. Vala isn't. For me, watching Browder and Black fire guns and look cool is all I need (yes, I'm in the shallow end of the pool, just looking at the pretty)

[sg-1fanintn]

Well, I hate to throw a wet blanket on this discussion, but I really didn't enjoy this episode. Now, what went on at the Sodan camp was well-done, and gave Mitchell a chance to shine. That part was good. But the team stuff felt forced and unnatural, like no one was comfortable with the rest of the script.

I enjoyed Ex Deus Machina so much.....and thought the show was really starting to get its rhythm back. So, I was doubly disappointed by Babylon. I'm hoping next week's half-season finales are a big improvement.

[LaCroix]

I think I saw this episode already. It was filmed in New Zealand and had samurais and Tom Cruise.

And let's hope that Cruise and Warner Bros. didn't see this episode/hear of it.

[Uber]

Well, I hate to throw a wet blanket on this discussion, but I really didn't enjoy this episode. Now, what went on at the Sodan camp was well-done, and gave Mitchell a chance to shine. That part was good. But the team stuff felt forced and unnatural, like no one was comfortable with the rest of the script.

I enjoyed Ex Deus Machina so much.....and thought the show was really starting to get its rhythm back. So, I was doubly disappointed by Babylon. I'm hoping next week's half-season finales are a big improvement.

I was all excited after EDM...and this really threw a bucket of icy cold water on my enjoyment level...it was just a huge step backward for me...

Let me quote someone from a different forum...oh, wait, it's you! ...because you really nailed down what's been buzzing in my mind:

<snippety doo da>
I think the difference is the canvas on which the actor [Ben Browder] has been placed. Farscape was a very different show from SG-1. Yes, they were both sci-fi, and both Jack O'Neill and John Crichton are self-assured wise-crackers.....but the similarities end there. Farscape was a world all to itself. SG-1 has constant ties to Earth and lots of real-world implications. John Crichton had to swagger to keep from being run over by the outrageous personalities he encountered. The same mannerisms seem childish on the SG-1 canvas. I think BB is still feeling very uncertain with the dynamics of the universe into which he has moved. He's trying to be the snarky leader without being accused (as we already have done) of being a carbon copy of Jack O'Neill. The result is a very uneven performance in the team scenes.

Another component of our unrest is the leadership issue. We KNOW that Sam should rightfully have the command, and that she exhibits the maturity, skills and experience for the job. It's unrealistic that she isn't doing that. And Mitchell's lack of experience make him a poor leader, because everyone on his team is more experienced than he is.

A third component is that we all miss RDA and Jack. We have certain expectations of how the team is supposed to interact, and that isn't happening. We're missing the sense of family that was there for eight years, because a very important member of our family is gone. Add to that the late arrival of the other key member of the family this season.....and the producers easing her back into the show.....and it just feels wrong, wrong, wrong more than it should. I agree that Ex Deus Machina was the best ep so far, and I also agree with many of the other sentiments that have been posted here in the past 24 hours about what's missing.

The final component of this strange situation, IMHO, is that TPTB have been purposely vague about what has transpired since the end of S8, how Sam ended up at Area 51, where Jack really went, etc., etc. As Kat said, it's probably because they don't want to commit anything to canon in case they need to change it later.

Take one or two of these things happening in a season of transition on a TV show, and most reasonable minds can accept the change. But this is quite a bit for fans to absorb, and our perceptions of what the show IS are telling us that it just doesn't feel right.

Will it improve? Gee, I hope so. That’s why I hold out hope for the second half of S9, when AT should be fully integrated into the storylines. So, I’m first hoping for a good story arc coming out of next week’s half-season finale, and I’m setting my sights on January, when I hope everything will begin to gel.

Uh...wow. What she said.

You hit the proverbial nail on the proverbial head with everything you proverbially said...why Ben's jokes are falling flat...how we're missing Jack...why the dynamic isn't there yet...what's missing and why...yadda yadda...

I really don't have anything substantive to add to that except...

...is there any talk of cake?

[dosed150]

I think the main difference there is that Mitchell is military so presumably has been trained in firing a gun. Vala isn't. For me, watching Browder and Black fire guns and look cool is all I need (yes, I'm in the shallow end of the pool, just looking at the pretty)

you seem to be forgetting that mitchell was a pilot how often do you think pilots fire p90s

[Rhondagirl]

I thought "Babylon" was pretty good. The character development (and whumping! ) for Mitchell was excellent, though plotwise I could think of nothing but The Last Samurai – kind of a rip-off, but BB was fantastic.

Finally!! A Ben get's his butt kicked but really good episode!!
And he took off his shirt!!! Always a plus!! The writers got to use his talkative manner, his personableness, his comedic approach to getting his butt kicked and did I mention he TOOK OFF HIS SHIRT!! Loved this episode!

[Uber]

you seem to be forgetting that mitchell was a pilot how often do you think pilots fire p90s

Well...Jack was a pilot too. One does not negate the other...

[GenHammondsBarber]

I liked the episode alot.

I thought the comparison between the atlantis episode and sg-1 episode was incredible. You see the difference a year makes in the team chemistry. That WAS the point of the night. Look at the difference between the atlantis team and the sg-1 team. The difference is not because of the writers. Think realistically. SG-1 has hardly had any missions together as currently constituted and they are trying to find their roles in the team now and to understand their new leader. Obviously they would not be as upset about Mitchell being MIA as they would when Jack went missing. They even use similar lines...the "bedside manner" line....notice that a member of the regular cast is at the bedside in atlantis, but in sg-1 its a person from another race from another far off planet. That was done on purpose to illustrate that sg-1 is still pieces trying to come together.

I loved that their is ancient technology brought in here. Undoubtedly, this will come into play and make the sodan important for us to ally with. This seems to be seting up nicely. There are alot of angles they can pursue here.

I loved that they had the prior for a matter of seconds. They are setting up for william b Davis to be very very evil I do beleive.

People keep complaining about them not being a solid team. Well, that takes time and I am glad that they are not forcing us to see them as a team. That will come naturally. Establishing a team takes time.

I already get the feeling that Teal'c enjoys being around Mitchell. However, isn't a fan of his humor or doesn't quite get it. I think Mithcell's "mocking" Teal'c was a sincere form of flatery. People complain on one hand that Mitchell does not have enough character development but then complain that Daniel should get over not going to atlantis because its been awhile. I like that he didn't get screwed out of the best assignment ever, and just join up sg-1 and go about business as usual.

I think the story was a good one and set up alot for the second half of the season.

[Wandering Tamer]

I don't know if I want the Sodan as an allies. I mean, I think they're cool, but I'd want them to follow the Orii for plot reasons. They weren't coerced into faith, they believe. What's wrong with that? Besides, I think the Orii need some soilders who know how to fight.

[LaCroix]

If I may, even if Mitchell is a fighter pilot, one who think that he should be qualified in all forms of weapons training. There may be a breach where the only thing that stands between you and the enemy is a p90.

But TPTB either a- didn't think of BB practicing with a prop or b-- thought he
knew how to fire a weapon, since he was on Farscape or c-- didn't care.

[SGalisa]

I, too, forgot about the tretonin (and no, I didn't see him carrying any bag or supplies of it with him... maybe the one brother who needs it will return and become ill, and maybe get a symbiote; or else this could become an opportunity for the Ori to do their magic resurrection stuff - and really confuse issues that much more.

Originally posted by SierraGulf1:
Daniel still seems bitter over missing his ride to Atlantis. Ever since Beachhead Daniel has seemed a bit off to me. I'm hoping next week he'll be more Daniel.

...somehow I believe Daniel will forever be kicking himself in frustration, until he *does* get to go to Atlantis. It's been his goal -hence archeological dream, ever since he first discovered info about the "Lost City of the Ancients".

The only question I have is once he's there, will he regret going if he ends up encountering a Wraith attack? I think the ancient city and its technology would fascinate Daniel, but not the evil natives of the Pegasus galaxy (wraith and iratus bugs primarily).

After seeing Dr. Rodney McKay so gun-ho excited about going there, and once finally being there - utterly terrified about a wraith encounter, I just wonder how Daniel might react. (hoping it wouldn't be like Dr. Beckett, but that would be so like Daniel to help anyone appearing to be in need of aid ...and Beckett attempted to help a wraith (different from Elia), knowing full well the guy could potentially turn him into the next meal, until Shep killed the wraith instead...!)

Originally posted by Mr. Seven:
But to the powers that be: You have to stop dressing Browder and Shanks in the same gear. During the start of the episode I didn't know who was who. Put one of them in a backwards hat or something.

they *were* wearing different hats:
Cameron(Ben Browder) had his hat/ballcap on backwards, and I was wondering if anyone else was too (answer: no, it was only Mitchell). Daniel(Michael Shanks) was wearing his usual in-the-field bandana on (and he always looks *good* in it, too!).

Originally posted by Albion:
I did enjoy seeing Carter in full soldier mode in the teaser. I always enjoy seeing that and she does it very well. If she's not in charge of SG1, she should be. I have the distinct feeling that with Mitchell looking out for them either he or they will be dead in five minutes flat. Heroically staying behind to let the rest of your team escape is all very well, but Jack would have managed to fire back at those Jaffa while using the best cover he could find...

In defense of Mitchell... I think what happened was this:
after the rest of the SG1 team moved ahead, Cam spotted a moving twig off the path, and got temporarily distracted. He saw nothing because the other guy was *invisible*. That's why he never saw that his way became blocked, when he turned to move onward with the rest of SG-1, but instead got involved and lost during a sudden "enemy" fight.

[Agent_Dark]

you seem to be forgetting that mitchell was a pilot how often do you think pilots fire p90s

No, because he made a point of telling the guy he was training with that he'd 'spent 6 months in Airborne Training at Fort Benning'. Thats airborne training (jumping out of planes etc) for infantrymen. So why he doesn't know basic squad tactics, or even how to shoot properly is beyond me.
Though I think disregarding that whole Airborne Training thing is a better thing to do, as a pilot who is leading a Fighter Squadron will not have the time or inclination to go and do advanced infantry training...

Well...Jack was a pilot too. One does not negate the other...

Actually... to get picky here I doubt Jack was an actual pilot. He knows how to fly, for sure, but I don't think he actually would of spent too much time in an active fighter squadron. He wears a Master Parachutist badge on his uniform (which implies that he did infantry and special forces training), not Pilot Wings like Mitchell does.

[Uber]

No, because he made a point of telling the guy he was training with that he'd 'spent 6 months in Airborne Training at Fort Benning'. Thats airborne training (jumping out of planes etc) for infantrymen. So why he doesn't know basic squad tactics, or even how to shoot properly is beyond me.
Though I think disregarding that whole Airborne Training thing is a better thing to do, as a pilot who is leading a Fighter Squadron will not have the time or inclination to go and do advanced infantry training...


Actually... to get picky here I doubt Jack was an actual pilot. He knows how to fly, for sure, but I don't think he actually would of spent too much time in an active fighter squadron. He wears a Master Parachutist badge on his uniform (which implies that he did infantry and special forces training), not Pilot Wings like Mitchell does.

You pickin' a fight with me buddy???

*assumes sparring position*

Nah...just kiddin'...who loves ya, AD???

As for Jack, I was re-REwatching Broca Divide the other night and it stuck out to me that Makepeace referred to him as "flyboy." Plus he usually was the one to pilot everything...

So..."flyboy"...pilot...

[Agent_Dark]

You pickin' a fight with me buddy???

*assumes sparring position*

Nah...just kiddin'...who loves ya, AD???

As for Jack, I was re-REwatching Broca Divide the other night and it stuck out to me that Makepeace referred to him as "flyboy." Plus he usually was the one to pilot everything...

So..."flyboy"...pilot...

Flyboy in that sense was reffering to the fact that Jack's Air Force, not a pilot

[Uber]

Flyboy in that sense was reffering to the fact that Jack's Air Force, not a pilot

Would you stop pestering me with FACTS??? Sheesh.

You're desire to be accurate and absolutely right is exceedingly annoying.

Especially when it, um, proves me wrong.