Ex Deus Machina (907)

[IMForeman]

Baal is officially the coolest Gould ever.

Beaming up a whole skyscraper seemed a bit of a stretch. though.

-IMF

[priornavalperson]

How come Sam did not sense all the Goauld's in the building when she was there? Unless that ability is gone now, Jolinear was awhile ago.

Remember that Goa'uld that Jonas Quinn was dating in season 7? She worked for Baal amd had a drug she injected herself with which prevented Sam from sensing her. I bet all Baal's Goa'ulds and clones were using the same drug.

[tsaxlady]

Okay initial reactions

• Teal'c talks
• Daniel is on speed again when he talks
• We have an SG-1 again instead of just an SG-Me
• Ba'al
• More of a team episode
• Ba'al
• Gerak - the new Kinsey
• Ba'al
• Liked the scene with Sam and Barrett
• Oh yeah did I mention Ba'al

[Giantevilhead]

The Jaffa council is a real mess, maybe that's why the Asgard didn't wipe out the Goa'uld.

They should have had a better cover story for the disappearing building. They should have at least sealed off the area for a week or two.

Plus beaming up the building wasn't that much of a stretch considering how the Beliskner was able to beam up 3 pyramids an Jaffa camp and an army of jaffa in about two minutes.

[Cikak]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but I really loved the scene, where the Jaffa storm Ba'al's building and the firefight between security and Jaffa. It was funny seeing Jaffa shoot up cubicles. But who cleaned up the bodies? Sam made it seem like it wasn't the government.

And to people asking why people didn't wonder why there was no debri, the news report Ba'al was watching indicated that there was some debri, that I guess the government put there.

[AGateFan]

Yeah, I noticed that too...! I guess Ba'al is one really kinky Goa'uld...

On another note... I thought it was just shameful how that Hak'til Jaffa lady stabbed Teal'c in the back like that...! The Tau'ri helped her people far more than most Jaffa... Shame..! (maybe she was standing in for Ishta... or perhaps Ishta didn't want to be on the High Council.) Either way... That was just wrong... she could have let Teal'c in on what was going on. Instead she led him into a trap... and I used to like her. Bad lady..!

Sorry... just had to vent. I really loved this episode. *Thumbs Up*

Funny, I didnt read her actions like that at all. She seemed to be standing up for an alliance with the tokra (and presumably the tauri). She got the council to arjourn so that Teal'c could speak with Garak in private. She gave Teal'c the information about Baal being on Earth and what Garaks plan was (which was true). And at the end she jumped in and told Teal'c that Garak had told them the truth (which was also true). I think she jumped in because Garak was sitting back letting Teal'c hang himself with his own words (damaging Teal'cs pride\image). The only thing she didnt do was openly stand against Garak, but it looks like that is political suicide for anyone that does. Better to have her continue on the concil leaking info to us. ---- well thats how I read it anyway, I guess it could be that she was a Garak mole, but I didnt see it.

BTW I dont think Garak actually told the concil the truth until after the Tauri discovered his mothership. He probably wasnt going to tell them, then knew that Teal'c would tell them and took the pre-emptive action of telling them first.

[Jonzey]

Great ep. I really liked the whole cloning thing- How they hinted throughout the ep at there being more than one Baal. Like Teal'c's comment that he had been sighted on another planet, or when Daniel saw him get into the car while he was doing a live video interview miles away, or how he spoke with an un-Goa'ulded voice from time to time and could survive the symbiote poison.

Though I'm guessing it was the original Baal who died, since he was the only one with a Goa'uld voice. I'm assuming the cloning technique was similar to that which the NID used in season 7's ''Ressurection'', only perfected so the Goa'uld is always in charge of the body.

[SophieTucker]

As regards the building, the area had been evacuated so there were no "eye witnesses" and they apparently beamed in some rubble because the news caster was saying there were complaints the amount of rubble seemed insufficient.

I'm still not sure how the cloning thing is supposed to work with a symbiote.

I guess I am the person that actually wanted Sam to get together with Agent Barrett. Who knows what that "not really" meant?

[sgatelvr]

Well, this was a good ep - not my favorite (I actually like SGA better for the first time ever). With that said, however, I will point out a few things I liked (and some I didn't ...):

Teal'c with a cool storyline, and damn was he ever sexy! Loved the speech before the council - logical, powerful, awesome!!

The team back together - I liked the whole patches scene. Sam accepting the patch, Teal'c staring at Mitchell *beat* *beat* *beat* finally the very slight nod (yay, he's in!!)

Building built with naquida - cool idea. Loved seeing Ba'al, and loved his accent (slightly scottish? Maybe?). Wasn't digging the clones. We'll see where tptb go with this.

DJ speed talking. It was pretty obvious (and ridiculous) when they were in the briefing room (Sam-normal speed speech, Mitchell-normal speed, Daniel-totally in fast forward, Teal'c-normal speed.) Whatever!! Give DJ a bit of Xanax or Valium or something!!

Beaming up the building - that was pretty cool. I don't find it so farfetched as others - after all, the Asgard were able to beam up three ships & a whole troop of goa'uld. And, I do recall mention of some rubble in the news report (or did I dream that?)

Anyway, I don't really like Earth-based eps. It was nice to have Prometheus involved (so at least there were some STARS in Stargate), but I would rather have seen some gate travel in STARGATE.

Gerak is just a bit too obnoxious: too power hungry and irresponsible. Why do the Jaffa follow this loser? They must just miss having a a$$hole to follow, I guess ...

Okay. Well, I give the ep 7/10. Hate to have to wait 2 WEEKS before Babylon!! Want more Mitchell!!!

[Scandrea]

Though I'm guessing it was the original Baal who died, since he was the only one with a Goa'uld voice. I'm assuming the cloning technique was similar to that which the NID used in season 7's ''Ressurection'', only perfected so the Goa'uld is always in charge of the body.

I wouldn't bet the farm on that just yet.

Spoiler:

Isn't there an episode coming up with Anubis clones?

I'll pass on judging that until I see if they have the voice, too.

This was a really good ep- I am a Ba'al fan, so it was good to see him again, and get the hint that I'll be seeing more of him in the future . I'm also a very minor Sam/Jack shipper, so I was happy to get the hint that they were together. Happy probably doesn't describe it- bouncing up and down in my chair does.

Gerak is a far better villain than the Orii- I think we could go another whole season without seeing a prior with him around. He's one of those guys you just love to hate. I really felt for Teal'c when he pulled the stuff he did.

The only thing I got frustrated with was the cover story for blowing up the building. An entire building vanishes in the middle of downtown! I mean, who is actually going to believe the gas line deal? Maybe this will come up in a later ep.

[Kalliope]

"Over 6 hundred channels and nothing to watch" - definitely the best line in the entire episode. I miss Vala.

[Mio]

I'm still a little dissapointed that we didn't destroy the Ha'tak behind the moon. Prometheus has vastly superior shields in comparison to anything the Jaffa nation could possible throw at it. (It stood up to Anubis's flagship for a considerable amount of time. What further evidence do you need?) They were a hostile invasion force, after all.

[jyh]

I thought this episode was PRETTY BAD. It seemed like the writers threw away the usual "Writing for Stargate" guidebook, which always made for smart, classy writing and style, and fished way down into the "cheesy sci-fi" guidebook.

First off, I don't really remember how the Trust was 'infiltrated' by the Goa'uld. I remember them (Trust) trying to kill all the Goa'uld with their little bomg thingy, that only killed symbiotes, but I'll have to go back & find out how the snakes came back.

Anyway, I was finw w/ the ep... right up until I saw the Jaffa ship uncloak right over the city's office buildings. I mean, PUH-LEEZE!!! That was so out-from-left-field that I couldn't get past it to take anything else seriously.

Then, the whole Ba'al thing.... how he came to Earth (again, he did this HOW??) and was working w/ the members of the Trust, and within nine months had become so powerful. That's straight out of those 'cheesy sci-fi' movies I mentioned earlier, in which you're not supposed to ask questions like 'how' or 'why' or 'who,' you're just supposed to accept that what you see is true. (Look, I made a rhyme!!) I suppose the whole question of background checks, social security numbers, and prior histories on earth are just an annoying detail that can be glossed over. Yeah, I'm sure the Trust took care of all that... that's convenient.

The 'building as the bomb' things... (by the way, way to spoil it for everyone, Sci-Fi... Sam's statement that the building is the bomb was in the previews all week, and sort of was a major plot point. But it didn't really BOTHER me, I just noticed it, is all) Whose idea was it to build a building as a bomb. Ba'al's? That makes no sense, the building would have been underway by the time he got to earth. (Anyone who has watched a building being built in a downtown large city knows how long that takes.. they don't go up in six months!) And what about the poor executives who disappeared? One was tortured by Gerak, but did we hear what happened to the other?

Also, even though there was some 'team' interaction w/ SG-1, it wasn't too much. Mitchell was riding shotgun for Teal'c, and Daniel & Sam did their own stuff. Mitchell STILL didn't have much to do, except the writers allowed him to be the one who came up with the 'big idea' at the end. Woohoo. I'm still waiting for SG-1 to be a real team, go offworld, just the four of them, like in the old days, so Mitchell can actually LEAD them. Splitting into groups of two isn't teamwork, and being on the Prometheus isnt' teamwork either. Teamwork is built when you have only your buddies to depend on, watching their six as they watch yours.

And finally, the piece that put the whole thing over the top for me, was the "Ba'al-team." Yes, the infamous clones. I thought that was extremely cheesy and cheap sci-fi. It *was* cool that Ba'al was somehow able to be more than one place at a time, but having THAT MANY clones was too much. Once again, a technology we've heard nothing about (except for the Asgard) shows up conveniently to be a thorn in our side. Nevermind the fact that reall cloning doesn't produce an exact full-grown replica. Cloned beings (Dolly the sheep, the kitten, etc.) start out as embryos and are born just like their 'parents' and have to grow up in the normal fashion. They don't spring to life full-size. (And don't tell me it's a different, more advanced type of cloning that we have on earth... that's just silly and too convenient.) One thing could have possibly saved this concept for me: if the clones had been visibly inferior or flawed. I don't mean flawed physically, but just not as strong or mentally sharp. In other words, they would have fooled someone from far away or with just a few words, but closer contact would reveal that they're not quite right.

On the other hand, I was glad to see Agent Barrett again. I think Sam should dump Old Grumpy and take up with him! Poor guy, he seemed pretty smitten (still). And the patch scene was good... altho who knew those things tear off so easily?? I thought they were sewn on. And I too tried to see what was on the original patches Mitchell tore off. Maybe it just said SGC rather than SG-1. Also I loved Mitchell's "Kiss" comment... too funny!!!

I really have loved Stargate SG-1 from the beginning, and I tend to give it the benefit of the doubt. Last season a lot of people complained that too many episodes were earth-bound, but I didn't jump on that bandwagon. I always WANT to like SG-1. The first few episodes of this season (the Vala episodes) tried my patience because I thought she was TOO involved w/ SG-1 and too much the focus of the episodes. I was SOOOO glad to see Carter come back. But this episode just seemed like the writers dipped into the bucket of sci-fi cliches and fished out some convenient contrivances. How many bad sci-fi movies have we seen in which aliens appear in a city or town, and nobody has noticed them or the big ship that streaked through the sky? Or the movies in which non-sensical science is used to explain the sudden influx of beings nobody has ever seen before? In those movies you just can't and don't take it seriously. But what I like about Stargate is that it's always been just on the farthest edge of being possible. How do we really know that there isnt' such a device inside the bowels of Cheyenne Mountian, with people going on secret missions? As long as the action (fights, attacks, etc) is offworld, we can believe it might possibly be true. But when an episode like last night occurs, it goes from the being 'within the realm of being maybe- possible' to the side of being just another sci-fi show about the earth being invaded by alien beings.

Sorry, I have to give this a 2 out of 5, and I hope the writers do a better job next time. Looks like they'll be offworld. YAY!

[Jonzey]

And finally, the piece that put the whole thing over the top for me, was the "Ba'al-team." Yes, the infamous clones. I thought that was extremely cheesy and cheap sci-fi. It *was* cool that Ba'al was somehow able to be more than one place at a time, but having THAT MANY clones was too much. Once again, a technology we've heard nothing about (except for the Asgard) shows up conveniently to be a thorn in our side. Nevermind the fact that reall cloning doesn't produce an exact full-grown replica. Cloned beings (Dolly the sheep, the kitten, etc.) start out as embryos and are born just like their 'parents' and have to grow up in the normal fashion. They don't spring to life full-size. (And don't tell me it's a different, more advanced type of cloning that we have on earth... that's just silly and too convenient.) One thing could have possibly saved this concept for me: if the clones had been visibly inferior or flawed. I don't mean flawed physically, but just not as strong or mentally sharp. In other words, they would have fooled someone from far away or with just a few words, but closer contact would reveal that they're not quite right.

Resurrection, Season 7.

[Auralis]

As for the cloning.
The trust, back then NID, was able to clone a symbiot and a host. To me it feel slike anice contunuation of that plotline. Nothing wrong with it.

Beaming the building up, not far stretched, Thors ship in Thors chariot was able to beam away three gua'old mothership pyramids just as easy.

And sinc ethe reporter mentioned that are already conspiration theories are poping up about the building, its way to early to tell if the cover will hold up long.

And java working undercover, that is something completly new to them, so it makes sense that they don't do it and just waltz in in their normal attire and blast away.

4 out of 5

Edit: oh and that the clones have the memory of Ba'al is not a handwaving of the clone tech as it is in most sci-fi shows with cloning. ITs because gua'old have genetic memory as long establised in the show.