Ex Deus Machina (907)

[Shep'sSocks]

As an episode it was strange.... I really don't like Gerak and can't understand how the Jaffa turned their backs on Teal'c and Bratak and allowed somebody as Gerak to be their leader....

Maybe they're the Jaffa version of the British public after WWII who first election they could voted Churchill out of office. I think that happened in a few countries.

[MCL]

I have certainly enjoyed all of Ba'als episodes!

"Great work on Stargate he does" in the words of Yoda.

[KatG]

What I was just wondering/trying to remember was if there'd ever been a storyline that included cloned symbiotes in the past 8 seasons. (vs. cloned humans) of a time when anyone had tried cloning a symbiote.

The glowy eyes indicating the symbiote is the 'whatever' that interested me because any of the characters who can 'sense' a Goa'uld's presence would know right off the bat that they're not dealing with the real Ba'al if B. didn't find a way to successfully clone his symbiote. It wouldn't be enough to clone his symbiote's mind for implantation to the human host - those glowy eyes and the symbiote's presence to send tingles up his enemy's spine would have to be there for the characters to completly buy into that they were dealing with the 'real' Ba'al...

In Nightwalkers the NID was allowing experiments on symbiotes. The symbiotes were immature and could only take over at night when the hosts were sleeping. They also had no naquadah. I'm not sure if that was a result of the cloning or if it was because the original symbiote was one of the original ones with no naquadah.

[QuiGonJohn]

So does each clone of Ba'al also have a cloned symbiote?

I thought the girl he was with was also a Goa'uld, she said something about "the humans".

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

So does each clone of Ba'al also have a cloned symbiote?

I thought the girl he was with was also a Goa'uld, she said something about "the humans".

The woman is too deeply into the loop to be a mere human. She has to be a Goa'uld.

About the clones/symbiotes: First off, the Asgard are the undeniable masters at cloning and they are only able to make short-lived clones (Fragile Balance). I don't expect that the Ba'al clones are very long-lived, either, which is handy form Ba'al's perspective.

I imagine that a lot of symbiotes - perhaps even a queen - came to Earth on that captured Trust/Osiris ship. I wouldn't be surprised if the clones were only human and had a symbiote implanted into them.

However - and I've always felt this should be the case - the queens likely gave the symbiotes only limited memories/ambitions so that they could be more easily controlled/brainwashed by their true masters - in this case, Ba'al.

We've seen evidence that queens can do this in The Cure and in that ep where we see the Kull homeworld.

[DarkQuee1]

No, of course you don't have to die to win the MoH, but you said it yourself:

...above and beyond the call of duty. This gallantry must be performed either while engaged in action against an enemy of the United States; while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force; or, while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.

To win the Medal, you have to do something *beyond* what your mission entails. And the mission of those pilots was to protect SG-1 at all costs, including their lives. That's what Mitchell did--but that's *all* that he did. Along with a bunch of other pilots, some of whom *did* die in the encounter. He deserved a purple heart for his injury, but unless all of the other pilots--not to mention the crew of the Prometheus who were ready to ram Anubis' ship--also got the MoH, then he did *not* deserve it. (Which may be why the character does not display the ribbon on his uniform, as he is supposed to: because the AF wasn't really happy about it.)

Certainly, if Jack and Sam (the only two military members of the team) have not earned that Medal in eight years of doing way beyond their duty and mission requirements in many situation, then Mitchell did not deserve it for doing his job--however risky that job might have been.

[ChillinTheMost]

I couldn't find it, but I went back through the beginning of this thread 3 times trying to find the post so I can give credit to whoever proposed this idea: The "real" Ba'al might be in the blonde woman and not one of the clones.

I love this idea. I have no idea if it's right or even possible [in the Stargate world], but it would be perfect. Everyone is hunting down the Ba'al-look-a-likes, while the Ba'al go'auld is in the woman! And it's great because she can be in the thick of things [meeting with Carter] without anyone knowing. [Someone said Carter would have known, but someone else pointed out a case where they can "cloak" it, so that's a wash.] Great idea!

[cafine_us]

So does each clone of Ba'al also have a cloned symbiote?

I thought the girl he was with was also a Goa'uld, she said something about "the humans".

If the woman was a Goa'uld too, wouldn't Sam have sensed it when they were together in the office? On that note, why didn't Sam sense the naquadah in the building/bomb? Does that benefit of Jolinar only work in people?

[ChillinTheMost]

"So, you're single now."
"Not exactly."

It's sooooooooooo obvious, people!

All of a sudden, Sam isn't single. All of a sudden, a new guy is around; one that Sam seems quite familiar with.

Yep, Sam and Mitchell are sharing that hot monkey love!!! It's soooooo obvious!




Just kidding.

[the dancer of spaz]

"So, you're single now."
"Not exactly."

It's sooooooooooo obvious, people!

All of a sudden, Sam isn't single. All of a sudden, a new guy is around; one that Sam seems quite familiar with.

Yep, Sam and Mitchell are sharing that hot monkey love!!! It's soooooo obvious!




Just kidding.

Oh, holy buckets!

Bite your tongue!

[the dancer of spaz]

If the woman was a Goa'uld too, wouldn't Sam have sensed it when they were together in the office? On that note, why didn't Sam sense the naquadah in the building/bomb? Does that benefit of Jolinar only work in people?

Well, if the whole baby symbiote theory is true, Sam (nor any other past Go'auld/Tokra or Jaffa) wouldn't be able to sense it, right? They didn't sense the Goa'ulds in the Nightwalkers townspeople, did they? *goes to check*

Plus, I thought that the naquadah deal only worked in people. Maybe I'm wrong. If so, can you imagine if she and Teal'c could sense it on a regular basis? They'd get the spidey-sense every time they walked by a Stargate or a naquadah generator, FCOL. That would suck.

[Daniel's_twin]

Sheesh, so far this season only one episode thus far has ranked anything under outstanding. And this isn't the one. The way that they played out the whole Baal thing was very good. This was also the very first episode where we got to see his eyes glow. Must say though, I wish they would go back to the more white-ish glow then the yellow one.

I wonder how much power was required to actually beam the entire building off the surface of the planet. It certainly was a radical idea on Mitchell's part.

I can't wait to see how they follow up on this ep. Man, four Baal's in the last scene. Any one of 'em could be the real one, or none of them could be and the real one could be far, far away.

[cafine_us]

Well, if the whole baby symbiote theory is true, Sam (nor any other past Go'auld/Tokra or Jaffa) wouldn't be able to sense it, right? They didn't sense the Goa'ulds in the Nightwalkers townspeople, did they? *goes to check*

Plus, I thought that the naquadah deal only worked in people. Maybe I'm wrong. If so, can you imagine if she and Teal'c could sense it on a regular basis? They'd get the spidey-sense every time they walked by a Stargate or a naquadah generator, FCOL. That would suck.

Couldn't Hathor sense the presence of the gate somehow? She said she was "drawn" to it. OTOH, naquadah rules have changed over the years. Teal'c can now sense a Goa'uld, though he couldn't back in the earlier seasons.

[the dancer of spaz]

Couldn't Hathor sense the presence of the gate somehow? She said she was "drawn" to it. OTOH, naquadah rules have changed over the years. Teal'c can now sense a Goa'uld, though he couldn't back in the earlier seasons.

Hmmm... Interesting. Hathor WAS drawn to the Stargate, huh! Well, maybe her sensitivity to it far exceeds that of Sam's and Teal'c's? Maybe it goes down the line of: Goa'uld/Tokra host, former Goa'uld/Tokra host, Jaffa, or some variation of the three. I thought Teal'c started sensing Goa'ulds around Season Three's "First Ones." I'll have to go see...

Plus, Sam's ability to sense the Goa'uld (though I hope this isn't the case) may have started going away with time. It's been several years since Jolinar, but hasn't she been snaked twice, counting the time in Nightwalkers? Maybe that time didn't count... Teal'c no longer has Junior.

I'd still like to think that Teal'c and Sam still have those abilities - even if no one talks about them anymore.

[PugGate]

I can't remember, when does it mention that the clones don't have Naquada in their bodies? (why wouldn't the Naquada be duplicated too?)

I think cloning is supposed to only duplicate organic matter, not heavy metals.