Ex Deus Machina (907)

[Auralis]

Honestly, i think the Jaffa don't know anything at all about DNA tests or even DNA.

[Sprinkles]

If the Jaffa council does an autopsy of Baal, which they probably won't, they'll find that there's no naquadah in the symbiote's blood and realize that it's not the real Baal. If they capture any more Baals, they could keep him imprisoned for a week to see if it goes through sarcophagus withdraw, if he doesn't then it's not the real Baal.

I can't remember, when dose it mention that the clones don't have Naquada in their bodies? (why wouldn't the Naquada be duplicated too?)

[RalCaladan]

I thought Gou'ald were immune to sarcophagus withdrawl because they were Gou'ald, and thus their immune systems were superior.

[Giantevilhead]

Apophis went through sarcophagus withdraw when SG1 captured him. At the very least Baal's host would go through sarcophagus withdraw since the symbiote can only naturally sustain a host for 200 years.

[Terracide]

Weakest episode of the season so far, reminds me why I stopped watching last season.

[gater]

This episode was fairly good & I liked the twist at the end w/the multiple Baals!
However,regarding the title,the correct phrase(in latin)is:"Deus Ex Machina".
What am I missing here?

[gater]

This episode was fairly good & I liked the twist at the end w/the multiple Baals!
However,regarding the title,the correct phrase(in latin)is:"Deus Ex Machina".
What am I missing here?

[jckfan55]

Well, here's a handy one, right here.... and funnily enough, it agrees with my take on it.

I'm not really wading into the definition battle as my lit. class that covered this device of Greek playwrights was many moons ago. (My understanding was that deus ex machina referred to a situation where the playwright had developed a situation that, to put it technically, was a doozy for the characters but then a god or gods appeared & wrapped things up for them. )
But the point I meant to make was that people might want to avoid using wikipedia as a source. My understanding is that it is notoriously unreliable since you have no idea how credible the people posting on it are.

[JanusAncient]

I don't believe that Ba'al was actually cloned, I am talking about the symbiote. The real Ba'al more than likely only cloned the body, and gave each one his memories and knowledge, the real Ba'al most likely isn't even on Earth, the clone was probably using a device like Vala, to create the voice effect so that the Jaffa would believe it was him. Ba'al has Asgard beaming technology, if that was the real Ba'al, he would have beamed out, instead of allowing himself to be captured.

[Schrodinger82]

I'm not really wading into the definition battle as my lit. class that covered this device of Greek playwrights was many moons ago. (My understanding was that deus ex machina referred to a situation where the playwright had developed a situation that, to put it technically, was a doozy for the characters but then a god or gods appeared & wrapped things up for them. )

That just about sums it up exactly, Jckfan. The situation is too much of a "doozy" for the characters to handle on their own, so they need someone else to handle it for them.

The main thing to remember about Deus Ex Machina is that it can only be judged within the context of storytelling. Usually, a story will consist of a hero you identify with in some sort of trial and tribulation. When the hero overcomes this trial, you as an audience member feel good about it, because his triumph becomes your triumph. We feel inspired to overcome our own limitations, and battle the obstacles in our own life.

The reason "deus ex machina" is considered contrived isn't before the resolution wasn't "pre-established" or any other of the things that Forman listed. Rather, it's contrived because the problem is solved by someone who you are unable to identify with. This leaves the audience feeling helpless and powerless, unable to solve their problems without outside intervention. A character might have the problem resolved by sheer luck alone, but we as an audience cannot be "inspired" to "be lucky." Hence, the advice from such a story is essentially worthless.

There are some occasions when the Deus Ex Machina can be used to compliment the story, however. For instance, in "Lord of the Flies," it's to show tht there is no way to overcome our own darkside. The only answer is to submit to government, and trust them to keep everyone in line. It's not a happy resolution, but it does make for biting commentary.

[IMForeman]

I'm not really wading into the definition battle as my lit. class that covered this device of Greek playwrights was many moons ago. (My understanding was that deus ex machina referred to a situation where the playwright had developed a situation that, to put it technically, was a doozy for the characters but then a god or gods appeared & wrapped things up for them. )

That is an accurate description of what a Deus Ex Machina was when it was introduced as a technique, and it still is an accurate description of part of how the modern version works as well. The modern version is a wee bit broader than Schrodinger is allowing for in his definition, though. In the modern sense, a Deus Ex Machina is when a situation is placed before our characters that is essentially a doozy, and it is resolved through an artificial means that drops in out of nowhere as if from on high.

I'll adumbrate:

Doozy situation: We have a hero who is on the run from rogue CIA agents, and he wants to expose them, and stop their Evil Plot(TM). He runs from them, makes plans to expose them, and he fails. Near the end his is alone, and surrounded by these evil men, with guns all pointed at him.

Resolutions:

1.)Superman drops in out of nowhere, protects our hero from the hail of bullets, disarms the villains with his heat vision, trusses them all up, then takes them to the head of the CIA and exposes them. This is a Deus Ex Machina anyway you look at it. Superman's sudden arrival comes out of nowhere, and he might as well just be God decending from on high to resolve the plot.
2.)The Agents fire at our hero, but the bullets bounce off him. He glows with power and defeats them all with his newfound superpowers. This is also a Deus Ex Machina. Even though our hero resolves the plot, he only did so with seemingly devine help that had nothing to do with the narrative to this point.
3.)The hero pulls a cellphone out of his pocket and looks at it, then says “of course!” He pushes some buttons, and the agents all convulse and die. When the real authorities show up, he says that the agents had a built in kill device that the CIA implants in their operatives in case they go rogue, and he configured his cellphone to emit the signal. This one is also technically a Deus Ex Machina. The killswitches came out of nowhere, his cellphone activation of the killswitches could have happened at any time in the story, and it just pops up out of nowhere. Now, I feel this one is a Deus Ex Machina, but it could very well be debated.

Now, I would like the opportunity to mend some fences here. If it's acceptable, I would like to extend an apology to Schrodinger82 for the way this debate got out of hand. I took exception to what I perceived as attitude being sent my way, and I reacted with attitude back. I still feel I was given more than I gave, but I know I am not blameless in this. So, if an apology will do, I offer it. What say you?

But the point I meant to make was that people might want to avoid using wikipedia as a source. My understanding is that it is notoriously unreliable since you have no idea how credible the people posting on it are.

Wikipedia is a bit of a Curate's Egg, I know. In some places, it's heartily accurate, and in others it has some fearsome inaccuracies, but I feel that on the whole it's more accurate than not. It's usually best to check multiple sources on any topic at any rate, but I think Wikipedia is a very useful resource most of the time. Where else will you find a single reference work that you can find information from Quantum physics, to the fall of Rome, to Optimus Prime... it's just a fabulous idea. It just has a flaw in how often and thorough the fact checking gets done.

-IMF

[CueBa'al]

Ba'al could make a fortune and never lift a finger. All he has to do is send his clones to get a job and work while he sits around and enjoys what society has to offer. I wonder if he has an alias, or if all his human underlings know him as Ba'al, likening his one word name to certain celebrities who choose to do the same; and thus seeing nothing unusual. Maybe Carter can use Asgard technology to adapt the Thor's hammer device to detect and beam away Ba'al(s). Put it on the Prometheus and call it the Ba'al Buster...nyuk nyuk

[Dave Thomer]

Ba'al could make a fortune and never lift a finger. All he has to do is send his clones to get a job and work while he sits around and enjoys what society has to offer.

Both Calvin and Michael Keaton have tried this, and it hasn't gone swimmingly.

[MCL]

It will be interesting to see how Ba'al clones cope with each other and their ego problems! Thinking of yourself as a god doesn't usually lend itself to sharing the position even if it is with another you.

I have thought it would have made more sense for Ba'al to let one of the clones be killed and taken by the SG before the Jaffa caught him. That way SG would have stopped looking for him before they found out the cloning secrets and would have handed the dead clones body over to the Jaffa which would stop them looking to. No need to build a honkin big building bomb and takes everyones attention away from your real plans.

I thought Ba'al sounded like a Kiwi (New Zealand) when using his human voice.

Great epsiode, now just a long wait until next week.

MCL

[epiphany]

The actor who plays Ba'al is from South Africa I believe. I enjoyed his accent, it had an interesting sound to it.