The Powers That Be (905)

[esoap524]

Also...there were FOUR claims against Vala -- we know that SLAVERY is one of them. How nice that she continued to enslave those people, just so that she could have some treasure. All that pretty gold jewelry, and gold trinkets and what not. Paid for by the blood, sweat and tears of her slaves. They must feel wonderful to wear and to look at -- knowing its price.


Morjana

I think it's ironic that to state that Vala is a thief, a liar and an opportunist is a bad thing in the eyes of some "Vala fans". She is all those things, so when people on the forums say so, it's a statement of fact about this character, not an opinion.

I was looking for something beyond the thief/liar, and I got a bit of that out of this episode. Thank you!

I've enjoyed CB's run as Vala and the opportunity to see her play a completely different character than who she played on Farscape. I hope to see her in other shows, movies, etc. I think she's a good actress, exotic, different looking, different sounding--I like that. She's unique. If they bring her back to play Vala--great! If not...well, that's the way it goes.

You mentioned redemtion in your post and I certainly hope to see some of that as well--I think that usually makes for a good dramatic moment.

I know, from my perspective, that she brought a bit of zing to the show and I'll miss that.

[Erik Bloodaxe]

Excuse me...where I did say anything about Daniel going through the Gate **without** Vala?

If Vala doesn't go through the Gate, obviously Daniel doesn't either.

My point was...they LET VALA THROUGH THE GATE!!!

*blinks* Oh, I thought you were complaining about them letting her through to Earth. To be honest, she does have one of those "can do less damage out there than in here" personalities, so that concern might've made more sense.

But, anyway, if not send her, then what are they going to do? Essentially send only Mitchell? Don't think he's the best at such persuasion against believing in the Ori, nor does he already have that people's trust on his side.

Daniel is more or less subscribing to the practice of apeasement when he tries to negotiate with the Goa'uld, or Anubis, or now, The Ori. Apeasement, by and large, has not had a really good track record in OUR Human history, so why would it work with Aliens?

Daniel certainly hasn't had a good track record with apeasement -- and Jack tried it once or twice himself (The Other Side is the first example that come to mind), and it didn't work well for Jack either.

Do you mean when he tries to get the Prior to heal 'em all again at the end? That's pretty much out of desperation since there was nothing else at that point they could do against the threat.

I think YOU'RE forgetting that Daniel has said (in more than one episode since Season Seven) most of his memories have returned to him.

Daniel mentioned that in the second episode of Season Seven, "Homecoming."

JONAS: "You know, when we first met, you told me that, uh, the issues between my planet's nations would seem insignificant once I found out what was really going on up there."

DANIEL: "Yeah, I remember that."
JONAS: "You do?"
DANIEL: "Yeah."
JONAS: "Hey, that's great."
DANIEL: "It's just...it's all kinda comin' back."

Actually, YOU'RE forgetting that those were only his pre-ascension memories that came back, and he only managed to tap into two memories from during the ascension, one of which Repli-Carter had to show him. Ergo, he could read the report, but actually learning from the experience first-hand would be more difficult.

And in regard to Abydos...it's not only DANIEL who appears to have forgotten about Abydos, but everyone at the SGC as well. We haven't heard a peep about our culpability in regard to the demise of Abydos. I've always wondered if that's one of the reasons why the Jaffa and the Tok'ra gave up the alliance so easily in "Death Knell."

We're no more responsible for the demise of Abydos than we are of Tollana (and actually more responsible for the demise of that nation from "The Other Side", or even the Aschen, but that's beside the point ). Anubis was on his way to destroy Abydos regardless of our interference. And if you think it was the whole deal about the eye that makes us responsible, Anubis didn't actually need that eye to destroy Abydos; he had more than enough firepower already, the eye merely quickened the process. In all honesty, it's actually more Oma's fault. The way I can see that Daniel reasoned it was that Anubis was getting the eye thanks to Ascended interference, therefore another act of ascended interference to undo the previous interference was very much allowed (that it was only Oma who got involved and none of the Others could further imply this); instead Oma stops him out of a wish to not get caught in the process of a bigger violation, helping others to ascend, but en masse this time. And since Daniel was about to rid the galaxy of essentially what her punishment was, who knows what would be wrought upon her this time? This is definitely one of the more major acts that her fight w/ Anubis at the end of season 8 is to atone for. But since Abydos would've been inevitably destroyed anyway and not even ascending could've occured for them, blaming Earth for it probably makes even less sense than the Genii blaming them for causing all of Pegasus' problems.

-Bloodaxe

[Scarym1]

Fascinating. So the Ori disease is the same stuff that was in the episode Frozen. So it was the Ori who gave the ancients the plague.

Wow that is a great thought. Maybe the Ori tried to kill off the Ancients in some sort of civil war. The Ancients then went off to the Pegasus Galaxy and the Ori went off to own little galaxy.

I love this ep. The scene with Daniel as Vala's defense attorney was amazing. His speeches in defense of Vala and his banter with the Prior who showed up were captivating. I love that he is asking the question of why the Ori want to be worshipped. It is almost like they need it for their very survival. Hmmmmm?

I was surprised that Mitchell took sick. At first glance it seemed all of a sudden but then I went back and watch it again. You can see during his report back to Landry that he looks a bit pale and then later it is very subtle but you do see him sort of stumble and looks even more tired than before. I wonder if Mitchell getting sick and then miraculously recovered will have any future reprecussions.

[darman]

Not sure on the reasons mitchell got sick myself. Overall, still an awesome episode by my standards.

I don't think the reason behind the villagers and Mitchell's getting sick has to do anything with lack of physical immunity...I think it has to do with how much you believe in priors' powers. While Daniel, Vala and Teal'c, had run-ins false gods before and they clearly understand what Daniel was talking about when he went one-on-one with the prior. For Mitchell and the villagers this was new ground, for that reason they couldn't distinguish between Prior's and Daniel's arguments and that doubt made them open for attack.

[chocdoc]

Good episode, my favorite so far. Kudos to Martin Gero for writing a riveting ending, making me, for the first time this season, wanting to watch more SG1. Now I can see why they need Sam back. The Ori/Priors are an amazingly compelling enemy---can't wait to see what else they are capable of and how our team faces this new enemy.

Tired, really tired, of Daniel being front and center and doing all the talking, and Mitchell and Teal'c being simply sidekicks. A quarter of the season is way too much, but it seems we are headed into more team episodes, I hope, with Sam back. Maybe Mitchell and teal'c will have something to do soon.

I though Vala was great in this episode.

For some reason I'm not real interested in the Lam/Landry father/daughter relationship. Maybe because I thought the Jacob/Sam story was done so well by the writers. But maybe Sam and Carolyn become friends and Carolyn confides in her about her relationship with her father.

Looking forward to a balance between the characters---looking forward to getting a team feeling again---no not the original team but a new team nonetheless that I want to care about.

[majorsal]

I almost hate to say it, but I'm kind of dreading Carter's return. No offense to her and AT, I think they're both great, but I just have this sinking feeling that once she returns, the show will resume the mediocrity of so many 7th and 8th season episodes that seemed to feature Carter storylines more often than they deserved (particularly with RDA's schedule). I've loved this season so much because Daniel (my favorite character) has gotten so much to do, I get a total kick out of all things Vala, I've formed a greater attachment to Mitchell than I ever did to Ford on Atlantis, and everything so far has been so much fun and so cool. Just please don't let Carter's return be a bad thing. (And bring back Claudia Black to guest lots and lots this season!)

see, i'm feeling just the opposite. from very early into the show (like the third episode in season one), i'd already found my favorite character (sam). so i'm looking forward to things pulling away from so much daniel and daniel-vala stuff. just because sam was gone for these first five eps didn't mean the show had to focus almost exclusively on daniel, vala, and daniel-vala. so while you're dreading sam's return, i'm eagerly awaiting my fave character and the return of stargate sg-1 (which includes ALL the characters getting something to do).

(kalliope, this is just for you -- i don't hate vala or claudia black. i hope, if she returns (and i'm sure she will), she'll be used with other characters and not just daniel exclusively. vala's got great potential, so spread the character around)


sally

[majorsal]

Martin Gero should definitely write more Vala-centered episodes in the future.

i found vala's sudden change of attitude rather... confusing? in 'ties that bind', she was in her full selfish mode. in 'the powers that be', she was suddenly acting different, and this was before she met up with her 'followers' on the planet. i wish 'ties' had given us a hint that vala was changing gears, because 'tptb' seemed too abrupt.


sally

[TheCorpulent1]

i found vala's sudden change of attitude rather... confusing? in 'ties that bind', she was in her full selfish mode. in 'the powers that be', she was suddenly acting different, and this was before she met up with her 'followers' on the planet. i wish 'ties' had given us a hint that vala was changing gears, because 'tptb' seemed too abrupt.


sally

Really? I didn't get that sense at all. It seemed pretty logical that Vala spurred the SGC to send her back to that mining planet under false pretenses (to protect them from the Ori) so she could retrieve her treasure. It was an apparently selfless act built on her normal and, as far as I'm concerned, pretty monotonous selfishness of the last few episodes and "Prometheus Unbound." Once there, however, her soft spot for Daniel and her horrifying experience with the Ori sways her to the side of the angels, at least momentarily, so she confesses to being a false god in order to keep the people from falling under the Ori's thumb. After getting thrown into prison, however, she retreats back into her selfish shell, but once her people start dropping like flies she can't help being moved to offer them aid again. After all, nothing we've seen of Vala suggests that she's a sadist who enjoys watching others suffer; quite the opposite, in fact. In "Prometheus Unbound" she could've easily killed everyone on the Prometheus, but she sticks to Zatting them and ditching them on a ship with tolerable, if not comfortable, life support. And again, in this episode, she makes it clear that she never physically abused her worshippers, which is something, I guess.

So, back to the topic, I don't think Vala was noticeably more goodhearted or anything. Rather, the situation at hand simply brought those qualities that we've already seen her display to a limited extent to the fore. Granted, even that much surprised me the first time I watched "The Powers That Be" because the real PTB have constantly been giving us tiny little doses of her inherently good nature, then burying them so quickly I wasn't even sure I'd seen them. It was initially odd that they allowed themselves to take it so far this time.

[Mongo's Girl]

In regards to Mitchell getting sick, not all the villagers were sick, so it's not like only the SG-1 party (minus Mitchell) were immune. Maybe it was a random thing, or maybe everyone would have eventually gotten sick. Don't know, but maybe it will be mentioned next week.

[majorsal]

Really? I didn't get that sense at all. It seemed pretty logical that Vala spurred the SGC to send her back to that mining planet under false pretenses (to protect them from the Ori) so she could retrieve her treasure. It was an apparently selfless act built on her normal and, as far as I'm concerned, pretty monotonous selfishness of the last few episodes and "Prometheus Unbound." (snipped)

just goes to show you how deeply i embraced this ep, because after i'd posted the post you're replying to, and read everyone's thoughts on vala's 'true' reasons for returning to that planet... you're right! i think some of this ep just flowed over my brain or something.

but vala did show some care and concern for them, even though she enslaved them for years...


sally

[ShadowMaat]

but vala did show some care and concern for them, even though she enslaved them for years...

A little concern in one trying instance does not a changed person make. Vala was sympathetic in this ep. In this incident. But to think she's suddenly going to go all touchy feely and "Gosh, I was so wrong to do that, whatever can I do to make up for it all and help all these poor defenseless people" every time? Pffft. Not bloody likely.

[alewis104]

Good episode, my favorite so far. Kudos to Martin Gero for writing a riveting ending...(omitted)...The Ori/Priors are an amazingly compelling enemy---can't wait to see what else they are capable of and how our team faces this new enemy.

I agree wholeheartedly. It was a dramatic and unpredictable ending, showing that SG-1 has a real problem to deal with in the future--one that won't be solved with weapons.

In addition, I liked the exploration of the moral dimension--the issue of free will--which we haven't seen as much of in recent episodes.

My only regrets: why can't the writers find something for Teal'c? And why has the off-the-team father-daughter relationship between Dr. Lam and General Landry been played with such mystery and obvious hidden significance? It's like a soap opera! I hope the writers are not planning a significant plot arc around this.

[MediaSavant]

I wish I could say I loved this episode, but it was merely "okay". "Scifi Lite" is a good phrase for it, particularly since I watched Battlestar Galactica right afterwords. Not *that's* drama.

On SG-1, I never really felt that the villagers or Mitchell were going to die--or have anything else happen to them. It didn't help that Lexa Doig's acting as the doctor is decidedly one-dimensional and lacking in nuance.

The Priors annoy me. In real life, religious proselytizers can actually be charismatic, but on this show they are like "religi-zombies"--not creepy so much as boring.

A note to the writer--you shouldn't need to have the characters give a running commentary on whether a characters speech was good or not. That should be obvious to the audience and not require exposition.

As I said, I wish I could say I loved this, because I am a big Claudia Black and Ben Browder fan.

[epiphany]

would realize that you can NOT expect those bent on world -- uh, no galactic-- no wait, universal domination! -- to behave with any reasoning based on logic or have any thought for the common good other than their own viewpoint?

Daniel wasn't trying to persuade the Ori or rather the Prior. The Ori was there and presenting an argument, Daniel was simply countering it. He was presenting the reasoning FOR the villagers not for the Prior. That was fairly obvious to me anyway. Yes he was focused attention on the Prior and the Prior focused attention on him because you know "it's personal between them" but he wasn't trying to convince the Prior of anything really. He basically believes the Ori are bad guys and that's it.

Daniel is more or less subscribing to the practice of apeasement when he tries to negotiate with the Goa'uld, or Anubis, or now, The Ori. Apeasement, by and large, has not had a really good track record in OUR Human history, so why would it work with Aliens?

When? When he told the villagers to NOT go along with the prior? To reject what he was offering? That's about all he could do and it certainly wasn't appeasement--what it's usually called here? Conscientious objecting or peaceful resistance? Let's face it the Prior could strike them down no matter how they decided to resist. If they'd tried to physically resist, he'd have stopped it, just like he did Vala's bullets. Ultimately they'd have been in the same situation.

Or when he told the Prior he didn't need to kill these people just to make a point to him? Ultimately it was the people who decided to bow down, free will and all that. He didn't choose that path, they did. And they had the right to make the decision for themselves, wrong as it may have been.

[morjana]

And they had the right to make the decision for themselves, wrong as it may have been.

Please, when you include the text from one of my posts to reply to, have the courtesy to include my name.

Thank you.

Morjana