Origin (903)

[SBacklin]

That was actor Julian Sands, not Ralph Fiennes.

Morjana

Thanks for confirming that. I thought that was Julian. The voice sounded the same and his lips were moving the exact same way as they did in the Warlock movies. It's almost like he came out of no where.

[karen_s_c]

What a snoozefest! I fell asleep in the middle of it. Oh, please, I hope season 9 gets better, or I'm going to start doing something better with my time than watching this dreck.

[SBacklin]

i noticed that and thought the same thing....

Well, they could've been just saying that. Maybe the Alterans just left and moved on and the Ori are going around saying....yeah we defeated them. It's kind of like two people fighting. They are both going to say "yeah I kicked the other one's ass" so they can save face.

What I am wondering is if there will be an "ascended civil war". The Alterans have obviously been sitting around but they are obviously aware of what has been going on. The Ori are now really on the prowl. Right now, with the Ori helping on their side, I don't see how we could win this.

[Terrarin]

.......... The conference room scenes made it very clear that there is respect both for religion andChristianity............

1.))) Please tell me there any other instances that support this respect that you speak of? This is what I saw:

Respect for religion---"Who's to say there isn't a higher power greater than the Ascended who really is God?" (or something like that) -

Respect for Christianity---Mitchell showing obvious respect for the things his Bible-thumping Granny used to say.

2.))) Did anyone else worry that the other allusions to religion made it seem like they think any people who have faith in a religion, peaceful or not, are dopes?

Please give feedback.

[kashi]

What a snoozefest! I fell asleep in the middle of it. Oh, please, I hope season 9 gets better, or I'm going to start doing something better with my time than watching this dreck.

Although I enjoyed it very much from a light entertainment point of view, I have to agree with you. The Orii are a bit...lame

[Frostfox]

Pagh Wraiths in their fire caves vs The Prophets round 3, oops, sorry, wrong show, but now we have a Garak (okay Gerak, but everyone keeps calling him Garak) and Jaffa politics, it's reminding me more and more of my beloved DS9 (and that is a big complement).

I understand why MS said 'this is not your father's Stargate' - very different feel and tone to the show but I'm still on board and still loving it.

Poor Sallis and Harrid, what a nasty end, getting back into their bodies just to end up as toast.

The contact lenses for the priors are excellent, the bald one who self immoliates in the briefing room was particularly good. Now we need Richard O'Brien to play one, he's the epitome of the weird bald guy school of acting.

FF, with visions of Dannyboy's lovely legs in those hose, dancing happily in her dirty old head...

[Kelso]

Well, I love it!

-Great parallels to medieval Christianity. Makes the whole Ori thing feels like it belongs in the Stargate universe.

-All of the actors were great! Louis Gossett and Beau Bridges rule! Glad to see Daniel returning to form.

- I have to admit that I was creeped out when Daniel received a visit from the Corpse of Jack O'Neill. That whole scene had a powerful Jacob Marley vibe.

- The thought of the Ori approaching the Asgard is gold! I hadn't thought of that! I'd love to see how Thor handles those suckers... "Non-believers will be cast down!" "In the words of my old friend Jack O'Neill...'Bring it on'"

- As someone who was raised in a southern baptist church (and spent three years studying to be a minister)... I have no problems with the Medieval Christian parallels.

[GateTraveler]

1.))) Please tell me there any other instances that support this respect that you speak of? This is what I saw:

Respect for religion---"Who's to say there isn't a higher power greater than the Ascended who really is God?" (or something like that) -

Respect for Christianity---Mitchell showing obvious respect for the things his Bible-thumping Granny used to say.

They cannot spend a whole episode trying to convince people they are not disrespecting religion. They have a story to tell. I believe the conference room scene was an attempt to reassure folks that may be worried about where they are going. That was enough.

2.))) Did anyone else worry that the other allusions to religion made it seem like they think any people who have faith in a religion, peaceful or not, are dopes?

Please give feedback.

I will say this. I don't think they are stupid enough to build the entire show around disrespecting every religion out there and offending a sizable percentage of their viewership. Over the past eight years they have dealt with the same issues presented in Origin - false gods. Over that time they have very skillfully avoided any implication that they disrespect religion in general. I don't think they are going to start now.

[Albion]

Well, frankly I was seriously disappointed. So much for TPTB trailing the Orii with 'make the Goa'uld look tame'. Puh-lease! Give me a break. I was bored out of my skull for the entire episode. I didn't find the Orii especially interesting, intriguing or threatening. And at least the Goa'uld had a bit of personality about them. The Priors and Orii seem to me to be completely interchangeable and about as animated as a block of cement. At no time did I feel the slightest sense of danger or impending doom from any of them.

The remainder of the episode was plodding, lacking in any sense of drama or excitement or even humour. I enjoyed Mitchel in the last two episodes, but to be honest in this one he just irritated me. Every lame quip just sounded like a bad impression of Jack O'Neill.

Landy seemed flat somehow too. I really wasn't impressed with BB's line delivery quite a few times. And could he have taken any longer to tell Mitchell and Teal'c that Daniel and Vala had regained consciousness? Come on. Why use all those words, Landry, when a couple would have done and put them out of their misery quicker? It made the man look like a sadist!

The only time there was any real sense of jeopardy, it was in a repeat of the jeopardy from the previous episode - sorry, been there already, done that. So any impact of that was seriously diluted. It worked last week with Vala, where it was shocking and unexpected. But, here, it was just reheated leftovers. Even MS and CB seemed to be unable to work up any real emotion this time around. Where last week their reactions were real and heartbreaking, this time they just sat there in the middle of all those flames looking slightly concerned.

And not a word about that poor couple who did absolutely nothing to deserve it, but ended up being burnt to death because Daniel and Vala took over their bodies. Would have expected something at least from Daniel on that. A little bit of contrition, guilt, remorse, perhaps? But...nope. Neither of them gave a stuff that they'd just caused the deaths of two entirely innocent people by their blundering around with devices they don't fully understand, far as I could see.

And then to top it all off I became seriously pissed off by those end scenes with Daniel and Mitchell. As far as I'm aware that's the last we'll see of Jack O'Neill and we still have not the SLIGHTEST idea of why he's not at the SGC any longer, where he's off to or why he decided to go. If I hadn't read the spoilers I would be completely in the dark and that's just plain bad scripting and an insult to the viewer.

It's grossly unfair of TPTB to expect the viewer to know what's happening to their characters through spoilers. You tell them ON SCREEN, guys. It's just utterly ridiculous to do it this way. And totally disrespectful both to the fans of the character and to RDA and the character himself to give him such a lousy sendoff after eight years. The backstory in full to Jack's leaving the SGC should have been dealt with in episode one. I was prepared to give them leeway, on the understanding it would at least be dealt with in this episode with RDA's last appearance. That it wasn't just ticked me off royally. What a crock. So when are they going to fill us in officially? In the finale? S10? Never?

I feel insulted by way TPTB have handled Jack's leaving - I've never known any show before that thought it could get away with this kind of thing through spoilers before the show aired and just ignoring it on screen. It makes me think they think they can get away with anything and we will just accept it. Well, not this fan. Sorry, think again. I don't like the implication that I'm an idiot who'll just let you get away with that.

I'm sorry to be this negative. It takes a lot for me to get this critical. I was really prepared to give S9 a chance. But I'm thoroughly disgusted by the way things have been handled and the disrespect shown. I'll be hoping that things improve over the weeks, but to be honest, unless the Orii get a serious personality transplant and start actually showing some real teeth and a serious threat, I'm going to continue to be bored rigid whenever they appear on screen.

Spoiler:

Which doesn't bode well for my enjoyment, given that all the eggs have been put in the Orii basket, with what looks like few standalone episodes to balance them and 99% of the focus either on them or the Jaffa (another plotline that bores me entirely).

Ah well...I'll be watching next week and hoping for better. But even if I like the rest of S9, I doubt I'll be forgiving TPTB soon for their ridiculous nonsense over the cast changes.

Albion

[SueS]

I think Origin is one of the best SG1 episodes ever. I personally love to see extreme religious people in Sci-fi. Possibly because I just can't understand people putting religion over common sence. So for me it's like christmas seeing people poo on religion in general. B5 did it and now SG1 to some degree.

Love that TPTB aren't scared to use extreme fanatics in their show(s?) when the real world is what it is atm. Personally I see a bigger connection between Origin-Christianity then to any other religion. That might be because I don't like christianity that much.

Wow, that's interesting.

I'm a born-again Christian, and about as fundamental as they come, and I'm thoroughly enjoying S9. I do see parallells between Christianity and what they are doing in S9 here, however I see nothing anti-Christian about it. In fact, I could see it as more pro-Christian. Harrid, Sallis, and Fannis are like the persecuted Christians who died for their faith rather than accept false teachings. Also, the Ori are like those mentioned in the Bible who Jesus said will lead many astray:

And Jesus began to say to them, "See to it that no one misleads you. Many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He!' and will mislead many. (Mark 13:6)

"And then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ'; or, 'Behold, He is there'; do not believe him; for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect. (Mark 13:21-22)

Then there's this passage from Revelations that has me wondering if RCC based the Priors and Doci/Ori on the two beasts that are mentioned here:

Revelation 13

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon.

12 He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.

13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men.

14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life.

15 And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.


I'm really liking S9.


SueS

[GateTraveler]

I agree with Albion that Jack's send off has not been handled well by the writers. RDA hasn't helped matters with some of the worst performances I have ever seen him give but that is not an excuse for not explaining what happened to Jack. I'm not nearly as angry as Albion and it hasn't affected my enjoyment of the season but it is a serious issue given Jack's importance to the show.

Jack's appearances - particularly in Origin - seem tacked on. The scene with Daniel was particularly uncomfortable and terribly handled. There was no chemistry at all between these two that have been through so much together for so many years. Maybe they couldn't have spent entire episode on Jack (I'm sure RDA wouldn't have committed to that.) but they could have better taken advatange of the few scenes they had to deal with his exit.

[keshou]

I agree with Albion that Jack's send off has not been handled well by the writers. RDA hasn't helped matters with some of the worst performances I have ever seen him give but that is not an excuse for not explaining what happened to Jack. I'm not nearly as angry as Albion and it hasn't affected my enjoyment of the season but it is a serious issue given Jack's importance to the show.

You know I just read Albion's comments and I have to agree. I'm not particularly angry but it was certainly a poor way to close out Jack's tenure on the show.

I suspect they're waiting to disclose more about Jack when Sam returns. But if those were the last scenes we ever have of O'Neill? Well, I'd prefer to remember him in the final "fishing" scene with the team.

[Bobthespirit]

Thing is, the only reason the Orii are more dangerous than the gu'ald is that we've been explicitly *told* they are.

There was this old childrens' show I watched when I was like 8...Power Rangers. Every so often, they had the villains gain some new power that made them 'unstoppable'. Then, later that same episode, the good guys would be sent to get some new power for themselves that puts them once again on an even playing field with the bad guys. Essentially, they would 'up the ante' just by reinventing the protagonists and antagonists in a way that they *define* as being more powerful than the previous iteration.

I feel like Stargate is using the same technique. First they did it with the replicators. Every time they showed up in season 8, they'd be more powerful, and SG1 would have to find some new way to kill them. Then next episode, they'd be more powerful again, and SG1 would once again have to find another new way to kill them.

The Orii are their way of 'upping the ante' on the gu'ald. They're not really much more scary than the gu'ald because the good guys will just find some new way to fight them that leaves them dramatically deadlocked the same way they were with Apophis, Anubis, and the replicators.

The religion angle just seems to me a little too similar to other things done in scifi. The vorlons tried to wipe out anyone who was influenced by the shadows, the vorta tried to force everybody to worship the founders. The Orii are just...not a new thing. And their mannerisms are the exact same mannerisms used by every 'we're taking you over for your own good' alien in every scifi ever.

[Nessva]

I didn't really like this episode much. It wasn't that bad, it just didn't really appeal to me much. It felt like a long-winded introduction to the Orii with no real action - a slow sort of episode in terms of drama.

I suppose we got a lot of information on the new 'baddies' but it would have helped if they were scary. Or is it only their fanaticism that is supposed to be scary? Or even just a few more passionate/funny/emotional lines from characters would have livened it up a bit.

Despite the fact it was nice to see RDA again, he looked bored out of his skull and not at all interested in actually acting, so that runied what could have been some good scenes.

Am really not interested in the Orii if they are just going to be spreading the word of their religion - nothing bores me more than that. Thankfully, I did come away thinking that at least they might be baddies with big spaceships, which might liven them up a bit ... hopefully.

[MediaSavant]

This was "Stargate to multi-task by". I found myself drifting away from the set to check my e-mail. It was visually pretty static, not very fast-moving, and very expository. To paraphrase Mitchell, it *was* like being forced to sit in church for hours. They probably needed an exposition episode to set up the Orii and the rest of the season and this was it.

Adding to what others said, the RDA appearance was a waste. It was almost like he purposely made Jack so unengaging that we won't miss him.