Origin (903)

[Excali5033]

One thing that disturbs me deeply is the Jaffa leaders' willingness to entertain thoughts of joining the Ori religion...scary.

Gerak only said the Jaffa seek enlightenment, something we've known since we first met Oma. I highly doubt they'd be willing to submit to such a harsh doctorine after escaping from another.

[Fsudryden]

Now I disagree with the people that say the Orii are bland and stale.

I believe that is exactly what they have to be. Do you want them dancing and doing musical numbers as they advance towards our galaxy. How bout an Ompa Loompa melody from the 70's wonka movie.

Seriously, these guys are zealots. In that respect there are completely focused on there doctrine and forcing it on everyone. There is no room for individuality in that department. The Priors and Doci each have there role and they fullfil it.

I agree about RDA's scenes.

Now someone correct me if I am wrong about the shooting schedule here.
It's my understanding that SG-1 films between April and August. If that is the case and RDA wants to spend more time with his daughter that is cool, but dont tell us the shooting schedule interferes with that. A regular father see's his kids after 5pm and on Saturday's and Sundays. RDA see's his daughter at least 8 months out of a year? Not to mention the shooting time is around summer break where she can go up to Vancouver with her father. So I dont buy the fact that he is leaving to spend time with his daughter. Just say you have been doing T.V. for over 14 years and you want to retire. Don't treat us like idiots. You can do like 6 episodes of cameos in like 4 days and go home to your daughter again.

Anyway great show setting everything up for the future. I loved the doom and gloom of seeing in my head zealots building an advanced armada of starships to clense our galaxy of none believers. Cant wait to see the rest of the season.

[Liebestraume]

I think I know where they're going for with this. You see, they want to make villains who are similar enough to Christians to piss off Christian protest groups enough to try to get the show banned.

I see where you come from, but I agree with the poster who said that the closest analogy one could draw would be the crusaders, and that most Christians today would have problems identifying with that.

So perhaps we could debate "if not Christian then some other religion(s)" but I'd rather think this episode was not so much about theology but the power of belief. Which is one of the reason I enjoyed it.

The Orii's are using a belief system to enslave people. Then you have the "heretics" who were willing to die for what they believed in. But none said it better than Daniel: "... this is what I believe in. You may kill me, but you are not going to change my mind."

I am extremely pleased to see the return of the old Daniel -- he has seen many worlds, ascended, descend; he might have been seasoned, but he still is an idealist. I think that was the best part of tonight's episode for me.

And I love Beau Bridges as the new general. That man sure can act!

[whatswiththehairtealc]

this ep was slow ass hell i thought, no pun intended. but i liked what the writers are doing with the orii. and i cant get enough of the whole "hollowed are the orii",but the whole "the path to inlightenment is through bla bla bla" its real hard to follow sometimes. its like wait what are they trying to say? at least the gould were plain and easy to understand their motives. but then again maybe that will make the orii more interesting villians. I think daniels last line said it all. "dont you feel like someone was watching over us before, cause now im scared" not and exact quote but you get the point. it will be interesting to see if the accended ancients help out now that the sides arent really fair. and lets see how the asgard tie into it do they have to worship the orii too?

all in all this will be a good season IMO!!!!

[Jarnin]

I think the writers are connecting the Ori to religious extremism. It's not about a certain type of religion, it's about the extreme branches of all religions that takes things way too far. I mean, the Ori are basically what religious extremism looks like; 6 hours of daily prayer, followed by dinner and heretic burning for entertainment.

It's the popular subject these days, makes sense they'd base the Ori on it.

[morjana]

Okay -- show of hands. Who thought of "Return of the Archons" tonight while watching SG1's "Origin?" Even in "Return of the Archons," their version of the Priors, the Lawgivers, carried a staff. If at the end of this season, it turns out the Ori is really an Ancient (or Alteran) supercomputer that's become sentient and is literally trying to fulfill its programming -- well, darn, I'll be disappointed.

And the Dorci's eyes glowed while controlled by the Ori.

Highlights of this episode: Mitchell realizing that to destroy the Communication device, he needed to toss it into the kawoosh of the Stargate. Very good, Mitchell! And that set of the village is just astonishing with the amount of detail. I know we'll see it redressed in episodes from both SG1 and SGA in the future, and it will be fascinating to see the changes and additions.

And we meet Gerak (Louis Gossett, Jr.) for the first time tonight. Will he create problems with the new Jaffa nation and Earth?

Lovely to see Jack O'Neill in a brief scene with Daniel, and riding shotgun with Mitchell in a F302. And we still haven't heard on screen yet where Jack O'Neill is supposed to be in the Stargate Universe...Missing Sam Carter very much as well. Three more episodes to go, and she'll be back.

And Vala is becoming easier to watch, certainly a lot less annoying. I wonder now if that was the intention of the writers -- introduce her as the annoying, irritating, shrill character -- and then watch the process of her redemption over the six-episode story arc? Redemption has always been the cornerstone of the series.

Morjana

[Hyperspace]

^^^
"You will be absorbed!!!" ...by the Ori!!!

LOL.

One thing I wondered, considering how Daniel 'unlocked' some additional Ancient knowledge in "Reckoning, pt. 2" maybe he has more insight into these 'evil ascended Ancients'? And wouldn't it be a violation of Ancient ascendancy to interact with the 'regular universe'? I think it may be like the other S9 thread, 'Ancient War'...

[vikingjedi]

Man what a great episode. The Ori are some scary freaks and I definitely have to disagree with the comment that they are anything like Christians. In fact I think they are the exact opposite.

The good ancients are like Christians, the Ori are like demon worshippers. Check the fire as an example, or the demonic possession, or even the concept of eliminating free will (which is the opposite of Christianity).

It looks like Daniel has now become the lead character in the show. So far so good. Will be even better when Carter returns.

Bottom line this episode ruled and whomever came up with the new villians made a great decision and deserve a lot of credit.

4 out of 5 stars

[morjana]

Did anyone else notice, that playing the Doci, was Ralph Fiennes, who will also take the rold of Lord Voldamort, in the upcoming, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, this November, and the outer shell of the City of the Gods, was reminiscent of Lord of the Rings.

That was actor Julian Sands, not Ralph Fiennes.

Morjana

[aAnubiSs]

I think Origin is one of the best SG1 episodes ever. I personally love to see extreme religious people in Sci-fi. Possibly because I just can't understand people putting religion over common sence. So for me it's like christmas seeing people poo on religion in general. B5 did it and now SG1 to some degree.

Love that TPTB aren't scared to use extreme fanatics in their show(s?) when the real world is what it is atm. Personally I see a bigger connection between Origin-Christianity then to any other religion. That might be because I don't like christianity that much.

[LORD MONK]

That was kick butt. The hole bringing the Ori in part.

[Jonisa]

I too found the episode to be very good. I was completely engrossed from start to finish. In fact, I have been for three episodes in a row now, which I wasn't able to say last year--there were quite a few episodes in Season 8 where I either ff'd the tape or wandered away from the television in disinterest.

Some parts I especially enjoyed were:

The Orii: They are seriously creepy. I think it was MS who said on the preview something on the order that the show can only be as good as the villains, and these villains are very powerful and extremely disturbed. The SGC has their work cut out for them.

Daniel: I smiled when he talked about how they were "explorers" and when he tried and tried to explain their position to that prior...and the doci. That is so Daniel. Yes, he's changed and become more military-minded to some extent, but he's still a communicator at heart. This makes the second time he's inadvertently exposed earth to a serious threat from some serious villains. I felt awfully bad for him at the end of the episode.

Vala: I love her. Love, love, love! She adds so much to the show, and the love/hate relationship she has with Daniel is fantastic. What a lot of chemistry those two have. I wish she was staying longer, but I can see why she can't. She wasn't over the top at all in this episode, which shows she knows when things are serious. I'm really hoping she can come back--soon!

General Landry: I liked seeing him mellow and soften a bit in this episode. He's not afraid to face problems head on either, as evidenced by his meeting with Garek and his response to the Orii.

Dr. Lam: What a strong character. I'm liking her a lot. She's much better than that rather bland doctor they had last year.

Mitchell and Teal'c didn't have a lot to do last night, but I know that will change in future episodes, so that didn't bother me much.

The two scenes with Jack? I can see, if someone is a huge Jack fan and hoping to find out a lot about what he's up to, where they were a bit of a disappointment. Jack did seem rather...lifeless, I guess is the word I'd used. IMO, RDA has seemed rather disinterested in the role the past two years and it seemed to me to come across in his performance for quite some time, so I wasn't all that put off last night. Maybe he'll put in another appearance later in the season. I know that a lot of Jack fans would love that.

I have to confess I didn't spare Sam a thought either last night or last week. That's more because of the fact that I was engrossed in a good story than because her character won't add a lot to the show. When she comes back I'll probably wonder how the show managed without her.

[GateTraveler]

So for me it's like christmas seeing people poo on religion in general. B5 did it and now SG1 to some degree..

I think you either missed a few scenes or missed the point entirely. The point of the episode was not to "poo on religion in general". The point was to show the danger and evil of religious fanaticism. We are seeing that today with people willing to blow themselves and a bunch of innocents up in the name of a religion (not Christianity BTW). The conference room scenes made it very clear that there is respect both for religion andChristianity.

Personally I see a bigger connection between Origin-Christianity then to any other religion. That might be because I don't like christianity that much.

Nice to see that you are willing to admit that your connection is based on your obvious bias against Christianity. I'll admit that there are fanatic Christians out there that miss the entire point of the religion they claim but the most prominent religious fanatics are on the front pages of the newspaper every day. I would think there is a bigger tie to that kind of evil than to today's Christians.

[keshou]

Liked the IDEA behind the Jack scenes. Didn't like the execution of them one bit. Obvious use of stand-ins...seems they did the best they could, but still...Pity RDA hadn't had more time to wake up from his nap before shooting began. I honestly wondered if he was feeling well when this was shot.

I was wondering the same thing - if he was feeling well. I think I remember reading that RDA broke his ankle sometime in the spring. He seemed to be moving very gingerly and perhaps it was difficult for him to stand very long without some pain in the old joints. I definitely think there was a stand-in for all the shots that didn't require him head on. But yeah - I was rather disappointed. I think I'll just choose to remember Jack the way he used to be.

Overall I didn't enjoy Origin as much as Avalon 2. In Avalon 2 they ended with some scenes that were really dramatic and pushed the envelope in ways I wasn't expecting. I was more wrapped up in that story. You knew they weren't going there twice so the prospective immolation of Daniel and Vala didn't have as much impact. Although if they'd lingered on Harris and Sallis when they jumped back that might have been really dramatic (and sad.

*The Ori. Well they're certainly powerful. I prefer my villains to have a few layers - and not just OTT super badguys -- so I'll be waiting to see how this develops.

* Hallowed be the Ori, Hallowed be the Ori.....okay I got it. In fact it will be ringing in my ears for days. Don't think the actors playing the Priors had any trouble remembering their lines. Although they had to remember to walk v..e..r..y... slowly. I can just hear the director - "walk like you got a stick up your ***"! And thanks for everyone who mentioned Julian Sands and the connection to "Room With A View". I wondered why he looked familiar!

*Mitchell still seems to be a work in progress. I did enjoy the little mentions of "grandma". That really helps distinguish Mitchell from Jack and he will continue to need that kind of characterization. Overall I like his enthusiasm. I still want to see how this group is going to operate as a team.

*Vala continues to improve. Hopefully we'll get some more backstory on her next week because ultimately she needs a little more depth to make her a really good character. It *is* fun to see her push Daniel out of his comfort zone and she adds some energy to the show that could make her a very good recurring character. Daniel and Vala certainly have great comic chemistry. Vala sprawled on the table chomping on the apple made me laugh. So did her rapid "conversion" while being carried to the fire scene. So much better without all the OTT sexual innuendo.

*Daniel. He really bore the brunt of all the exposition of introducing the Ori. Some of it made my eyes glaze over a little but I was impressed with some of the things I was hearing in the conversation with the Doci. The ...."that's what I believe" ......line was very "Daniel" and it was nice to see that passionate, idealistic side of Daniel again. I thought MS did some of his best work in ages in these three episodes - with closed-captioning on of course.

*Landry. Another work in progress. It's so strange. Sometimes I really like him and other times he kind of rubs me the wrong way. He stands up for his people and that's a good thing.

*Jaffa storyline. Right now this seems like it's thrown in to keep Teal'c connected to the story. Pretty boring stuff, imo. But I suspect there's going to be more to it than that. The Jaffa just shed their "false gods" but there may be many followers who were more comfortable with that structure and those beliefs. I'm looking for Gar'ak to eventually become a "Prior" and for he and his Jaffa followers to become part of the Ori's army. That way Teal'c has more of a reason to continue being personally connected to the fight against the Ori.

Kudos again to Joel Goldsmith. The music during the three part opener has been very, very good. It added A LOT to the impact of the story.

I liked the look of the Ori "city". And the sets looked like movie sets. Well done. Also looked like lots of overtime from the costume department. I kept wondering if the Doci's "wings" make it difficult to fit thru doorways. Guess he doesn't get away from his fiery friends too often.

So the "pilot" for the new spin-off has set things up. I'm interested enough to keep watching and see where they're going. My continued enjoyment will probably depend on how much I like the chemistry of the new team (once Sam gets back) and the development of the new villain. If the Priors just end up being walking cliches - and they seemed like that at times in this "pilot" - then I'm not that interested.

Vala's been a nice spark plug to have around and I look forward to seeing her back sometime. Especially if they keep peeling back the layers on that onion.

[keppiezbt]

When the Prior was speaking in the briefing room, he said "they did defeat the old spirits, and cast them out," do you think that he was speaking of, the Ori being the reason that the Ancients left their home galaxy, or could it have been something that happened, after the Ancients ascended?

i noticed that and thought the same thing....