Origin (903)

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Vala suggests they use the rings to penetrate Glastonbury Tor and everyone looks at her like she's crazy because the (heretofore believed to be) superior Asgard transporters couldn't penetrate it. But then she points out that the Ancients were the gate builders and "they invented the rings, too." I was a bit confused that the SGC people didn't know the rings were Ancient technology, since they seem to have uncovered more about the Ancients than anyone else. But then again, I didn't know the Ancients had invented the rings until Vala pointed it out, so it's possible that that was the first mention of the rings' being Ancient tech that the Goa'uld just stole.

[Dani347]

Yeah, Vala suggests they use the rings to penetrate Glastonbury Tor and everyone looks at her like she's crazy because the (heretofore believed to be) superior Asgard transporters couldn't penetrate it. But then she points out that the Ancients were the gate builders and "they invented the rings, too." I was a bit confused that the SGC people didn't know the rings were Ancient technology, since they seem to have uncovered more about the Ancients than anyone else. But then again, I didn't know the Ancients had invented the rings until Vala pointed it out, so it's possible that that was the first mention of the rings' being Ancient tech that the Goa'uld just stole.

Or, maybe they were just surprised that she was the one who came up with the suggestion. Maybe they weren't expecting anything helpful from her.

[TheCorpulent1]

I first realized that the Ancients built the rings after I watched the Lost City part 2 when Jack using the Ancient knowledge modified the rings to cut through the ice to get to the outpost.

Daniel also said the Ancients built the stargates their should be a set of rings down their somewhere - in the same episode

I figured Jack modifying the rings reflected the Ancients' technological wizardry, not that the Ancients necessarily invented the rings. Last time he had the Ancient repository downloaded into his brain, he used Earth items to build a functioning ZPM and interface it with the SGC's power supply. Orlin built his own Stargate out of Earth materials, too. The Ancients could've easily been able to modify the rings even if they were alien technology, since it appears as if Ancient tech is far beyond just about everything extant in the galaxy today.

[lily]

OK, due to real life getting in the middle lately, I haven't had time to watch "Avalon part 2" and "Origin" as many times as I would have like to. In fact I watched "Origin" just once so far. I hope I can watch it more times next week.

Also, because of real life, I haven't had the time to read all the comments regarding "Origin" in the lists and forums I'm in. I just read a few scattered comments.

Here are my thoughts after watching last Friday's episode just once (I might have other inputs after more re-watching):

- I find the Ori much scarier than the Goa'uld. Don't get me wrong. I loved the Goa'uld arc (if not, I wouldn't have spent so much time watching 8 seasons of a show). I loved the Egyptian mythology basis, and it was one of the things that got me hooked on Stargate. I found the premise interesting, but I never found the Goa'uld really scary. However, at least from what I can see so far, the Ori seem to be really scary people. It seems it'll be a really interesting story arc, at least IMHO.

- Daniel and Vala. I enjoyed the scenes with both, as much as I enjoyed those two in previous episodes. They have great chemistry. I'm not implying ship. Just that they are great working together. I liked Vala in "Prometheus Unbound" and in "Avalon part 1", and I loved Vala in "Avalon part 2" and "Origin". I don't mind the Vala from "PU" and "Avalon I" being in more episodes through out the season, but I wouldn't like that Vala to become part of the main cast. I would love, however, to see the Vala from "Avalon II" and "Origin" to become a regular.

- I miss Sam and I'm looking forward to her return in "Beachhead". Wish we had a small cameo in every episode, as we had in "Avalon I"

- Ge'rak (sp?) seems to be a nice addition to the Jaffa world. Looking forward to Teal'c/Bra'tac/Ge'rak interaction. It should be really interesting.

- Loved the scene with Mitchell aiming his gun at the Prior in the briefing room. I would've loved to see what Daniel and Vala managed to say in the infirmary when they got briefly back, that triggered that reaction. My guess is that scene was actually filmed but cut from the final version due to time constraints

- Loved the scene where Cameron and Teal'c run with the Ancient device, and Walter stops the dialing sequence (hey, I didn't know, or at least didn't remember, they could do that)

- Loved the scene between Jack and Daniel. I've read some comments about people being dissapointed with this scene. It's amazing how an scene can convey different feelings to different persons. For me this scene was really great. I felt like I was watching a couple of close friends talking back after being away for a while. When I heard Jack's line "I'm hungry" and saw Daniel's smile when hearing this, and both leaving Daniel's office, for me it was clear that they were going together to have something to eat and have a long talk just as the long time friends they are. For me it was an absolutely wonderful scene.
As I said, it's amazing how the very same scene can mean so many different things for different fans

Those are my highlights for this episode.

Not so good parts? Maybe the last scene in the F-302 could've been done a bit better, but I don't find it necessarily bad.

[CuJoX]

Great episode. The Ori seems to be some scary bad guys. What do the followers of the Ori say everytime? "Hallo'd are the Ori" or something close to it? Sorry about the spelling there. I think it was great how they made Daniel tell Jack that it's the first time that he's been scared after having met the Ori, it sure grabbed my attention. Wished Sam could make small appearances every episode until Beachhead.

[Scarym1]

I personally LOVED the Jack and Daniel scene. I thought it was so classic. I was almost finished watching Origins when I remember that Jack is supposed to show up.

When Daniel was alone in his office, I thought that this is when Jack is going to show up. I was quite excited when he did. I love the banter. I loved how surprised and happy he was to see Jack. I thought when Jack said he was sorry that Daniel missed the Daedelaus (sp) and Daniel said that no he wasn't sorry was excellent. The expression on Jack's face was great. I think it has become a sort of private joke between the two of them. That no matter how many times Daniel asks to go he just can't seem to leave.

I really like the "I am scared" and "I am hungry" banter. It said so much with so few words. It was great to see Daniel admit that Jack would be the only one he would truly express his fears to. I believe that Jack is as afraid as Daniel but he chooses to express himself by changing the subject. I love that Daniel realizes what Jack is doing and doesn't push it. He knows that Jack is as concerned with this as he is. They then go off for lunch and they might even talk some more about this.

As for the rest of the ep, I think it started off slow but picked up nicely near the end. I am goin to have to watch it a second time to really catch everything.

[Mio]

You know, this episode made me realize a posibility about 'Threads'. Its about when the Ancients refused to intervene. In any case, thinking this might make our Ancients seem slightly less cold and uncaring.

Its possible that they actually wanted to stop Anubis, but were too busy hiding us from the Orii to actually do anything about it, or if they had done anything about it, the Orii would have found out, and sent Priors anyway.


Just a random thought.

[joasia]

Yeah, Vala suggests they use the rings to penetrate Glastonbury Tor and everyone looks at her like she's crazy because the (heretofore believed to be) superior Asgard transporters couldn't penetrate it. But then she points out that the Ancients were the gate builders and "they invented the rings, too." I was a bit confused that the SGC people didn't know the rings were Ancient technology, since they seem to have uncovered more about the Ancients than anyone else. But then again, I didn't know the Ancients had invented the rings until Vala pointed it out, so it's possible that that was the first mention of the rings' being Ancient tech that the Goa'uld just stole.

For me the looks has been more like "Why didn't we think about it!?" The same kind Jack would get every time he has been right . As for the rings being an Ancient technolody I do not remember it stated this way, but somewhere someone mentioned that the rings are basically "stargates light", for short-distance transport. We know the stargates has been built by Ancients, so no surprise with the Ancient rings for me.

[Giantevilhead]

I wonder if the Ori ascend by burning themselves to death. Maybe the prior who set himself on fire actually ascended.

[vikingjedi]

I have a question.

I remember one of the prior's saying something to the effect of "When so and so fell from the sky he caught himself, and that is truely great"

Do yall think it could refer to the devil being cast out of Heaven?

[Sam_o_Neill]

I can't believe that was the last we are going to see of Jack!!!! It didn't seem like him at all! I don't know why RDA played it like that but it seemed forced somehow

The episode wasn't too bad, still liking Cameron but I am really disappointed with RDA's appearance especially since its the last we are going to have for a long while...
I just can't wait until Sam comes back! Hopefully that will bring back more of the old Stargate feel.

My Rating 3/7

[entil2001]

This is essentially the end of the long process of “passing the torch”, which was, I suppose, an inevitable storytelling concern. I like the fact that they allow the new characters to establish themselves first before having O’Neill show up and give his own brand of approval. It actually feels a bit intrusive when he walks in the door, and that tells me that the writers have made their case for the new team.

So this is the beginning of a new direction in the “Stargate” mythology. Actually, it feels like an organic extension of what has come before, especially in light of what’s been happening in the Pegasus Galaxy. The Ancients (Altera, Alterans, whatever) started out as these great enlightened folk, but over the past several seasons, their motives and choices have been seriously questioned.

Enter the Ori (nice play on the word “origin”!), who seem to have taken the whole “holier than thou” thing to a whole new level. As the characters point out constantly in this episode, the Ori are even worse than the snakeheads, because in a lot of ways, the Ori have all the hallmarks of gods. There must be a weakness, but it’s certainly not evident at this point. And thanks to the usual “Stargate” method of taking all possible precautions, Daniel hands the Ori a whole new galaxy to convert or annihilate.

Granted, it’s not all Daniel’s fault; how could he know that the Ori were assuming that their brethren back in the Milky Way were running things with an equally iron fist? If there’s one thing that “Stargate” has underscored over the years, it’s the fact that a relatively weak alliance built on celebration of diversity will always look like a feast to much stronger totalitarian regimes.

Naturally, the new Jaffa Nation would be a strong ally for the effort to contain and repel this new influx of “false gods”, but I don’t think it will be that easy. There’s the general disdain of Teal’c, for one thing, and the overwhelming sense that Gerak thinks that he ought to be given a lot more respect and authority in all matters than he really deserves. I suspect that the ongoing struggle to maintain that alliance will play in the hands of the Priory.

Several things are suggested about the Priors in this episode. First, it seems as though the Ori transform normal humans into some kind of modified servant. Those servants become the Priors, and there’s certainly a sense that there’s some mind control at work. Again, shades of the Goa’uld, but this time, the mind control is inherent, not based on a distinct parasite. Beyond that, the Priors have the resources to build ships and use gate travel to get to other galaxies without much effort. They also seem to remain in general telepathic contact with one another, possible with their relationship to the Ori at the center of it all.

While the followers of the Priory are not unlike the Jaffa in terms of their numbers and enslavement to a more powerful set of beings, the Ori trump the snakeheads in one major regard: thus far, it doesn’t look like there’s conflict between camps of Ori. The Goa’uld could be set against one another with relative ease, thus providing the alliance with a means of fighting a stronger enemy by fostering internecine warfare. While the Ancients have had a few “bad apples” like Oma running around, they tend to be rather unified in their decisions. It looks like the Ori are the same way, and that’s a problem.

So what’s the solution? Mitchell is the ostensible leader, but Daniel is definitely taking a more central role. That makes sense, given that the most obvious means of fighting the Ori would involve either his connection to the Ancients themselves or (more realistically) his ability to utilize Ancient tech when it’s discovered. They might even get to use former enemies like the remaining Goa’uld. Assuming that the series continues to have strong support, the arrival of the Ori is actually a great device for exploring the post-System Lords status quo.

I like this direction (despite some of the retreads of the “false gods” motif) because it opens the door to a deeper sense of philosophical exploration, much like the earlier seasons. There’s still plenty of the trademark cheesiness, but there’s a great chill factor to it all as well. The Doci, played by John Malkovich’s evil twin (Mr. Warlock Julian Sands, I believe), is one creepy guy, and I love how he casually dismisses Daniel’s attempt at embracing cultural differences. Mitchell is showing a bit more of the “John Crichton” personality that Browder loves to channel, but it actually makes sense, given that Mitchell is dealing with adversity through humor. It’s much like O’Neill, before he started being a bit too snarky. Now that the premiere is done and the torch has been passed, it should be interesting to see how the writers deal with the week-to-week cast integration.

[DarkQuee1]

Guess logic and continuity are things of the past in StargateLand. Three eps and holes in all of them. Ideas that look good as high concept, but don't get thought through. (If Vala and Daniel are "tied" by those bracelets, then there should have been some residual kickback to Daniel from her burning.) Not to mention the beating the characters have been taking since the start of season 8.

Of course, some of the character problems have always been there: there tends to be no consequences carried along in this show from things that happen. (C'mon, no apparent residuals for Jack after "Abyss"?) And here it is again: I didn't notice any particular deepening of Vala's character after her last-week's experience--and next week looks like high school locker room time all over again.

Still, you'd think that by now Daniel would have learned to refrain from just trying things because they're there--without figuring out what they actually do first. End result of that exercise in lack of common sense was to alert an enemy to our existence (though that makes no sense at all; more on that later). Not to mention, being responsible for the two people who's bodies they inhabited ending up being burned alive--and I didn't notice any particular guilt or regret being exhibited by either Daniel or Vala at the end of the ep over that. What the heck. Guess it would get in the way of the fun.

[sarcasm]Loved the hint of "White Man's Burden" at the beginning of the ep in regard to all those people out there who are now rudderless and darn if they don't need us to show them the way. [/sarcasm]

Not to mention the suddenly religious aspects--which they have wisely avoided until this season--of the conversation in the briefing room. Now we're bringing God into this? Are we planning on sending Elmer Gantry out fight preacher with preacher? Dangerous territory. Especially these days.

OK, the Ori didn't know about our galaxy? Huh? They're Ascended. On a higher plane of existence with all the knowledge of the universe at their fingertips--and they didn't know about our galaxy? Funny. They knew all about it *before* they Ascended. Heck, they lived here! And had alliances with the Asgard, Nox and Furlings. Another case of, "Gee, how dumb you get when you're dead." Ascended Alzheimer's. TPTB had to come up with a reason why the Ori haven't raised their banner before this, but this is ridiculous, and a sign of the problem of doing two shows at once. Neither gets really well thought out. Atlantis still has huge holes. TPTB should have taken a year off, thought this through and started a second spinoff.

And what the heck was that nonsense that Daniel was spouting at the end? I must have missed all the times in the last eight years that Daniel--or any of the others--gave the impression that they weren't worried about the Goa'uld or the Replicators, not really, because deep down inside they knew that they were being protected. GMAB. Not only does this come across as another instance of trying to diminish the last eight years because only *now* is the show in gear and *now* we're meeting really Big Bads, but it also has no support in the earlier series.

And protected by whom? The implication is the Ascended, but these are the same guys who said they would never help anybody and who would have stood aside and allowed one of their own--Nuby--to wipe out all life in the galaxy (including their former allies) and maybe even the universe, while he was protected from the effects of the device by his Ascended nature.

The way that TPTB keep trying to get around it--they won't interfere if they aren't using their powers--gets harder and harder to apply to the circumstances. Nuby could only do what he was going to do because he was immune; if he were only "human" (so to speak), he could never have done it. He was thus using his powers to escape the consequences of his actions, and that should have required the Others to take action. However, since not *one* character in the show, including Daniel, mentioned this, I have to assume that TPTB never realized the flaw in their reasoning.

Same thing applies here: the Ori are giving some of their powers to ordinary mortals to make them superhuman advocates for the Ori. That *is* using their powers to tilt the balance, and it should require the Others to take action. At the very least, the Others should restore the balance by creating opposing numbers to the Priors and doci. At the very most, the Ori are clearly using their abilities to affect and control these "lower" planes, and that should require opposing action by the Ascended. Once again, no one addresses this--they just spout the company line--which again suggests that TPTB haven't considered it at all.

Because if you buy the rule as it stands, then it's nothing more than an excuse for the Ascended to *never* do anything. If the actions by Nuby and the Ori that we've learned of don't count, then basically it's the equivalent of the Others saying that "The only thing that will count is if the Ori themselves descend en masse on a world--which means we'll never have to do anything because we know they'll never take that chance themselves." That's like saying, "If you try to shoot someone with that gun, I'll stop you. But if you hand to someone else and tell them to do the shooting, heck, who cares? I have no responsibility anymore."

So much for Daniel's suddenly new-found feeling that in the past he felt protected!

BTW, that whole scene with Daniel and Jack felt like a total disconnect. They didn't even seem to be in the same room! I can't believe they bothered to have RDA in it for that (or to advertise it. False advertising there, guys.) At least, in the scene with Mitchell, he seemed to be interested to some extent. (Interesting, though, that he didn't feel any need to come running out to the base while Daniel was in a coma. )

[jree]

This might have been brought up but this is my thought

They have their hands full I'm guessing that they're hiding Pegasus from the Ori as well. Daniel and Vala gave away our galaxy but now they still have to keep Pegasus shielded.
why would they hide us and not them? If they didn't they might be now. To keep them from finding out about a third galaxy full of humans.

Maybe the ancients were trying to shield this galaxy, but Daniel messed that up by using the device, like he said he has free will and he chose to use the device so the ancients had to respect that.

On the other hand Oma Desala kept on ascending Daniel maybe she knew that Daniel would find the device. Thus it was a way for Oma to protect the galaxy from the Ori. If Daniel stayed ascended, then he would never have met Vala. Thus Vala and Daniel would never have initiated a chain of events that resulted in the Ori knowing about the Milky Way.

[The2ndQuest]

>>OK, the Ori didn't know about our galaxy? Huh? They're Ascended. On a higher plane of existence with all the knowledge of the universe at their fingertips--and they didn't know about our galaxy? Funny. They knew all about it *before* they Ascended. Heck, they lived here!<<

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the prior two episodes explained that the Ancients/Alterans came from the "Ori galaxy" after they split away from the Ori on apparently philosophical issues and it was the Alterans who seeded life in the Milky Way and formed the alliance with the Asgard, Nox and Furlings.