Origin (903)

[Sela]

I reluctantly admit that I didn't really care for this episode as I wanted to. For me, the feeling of the whole thing was too 'dark ages' for me. The Ori seemed to be very monotone, very dull. With the goa'uld, they all have distinct personalities from the beginning. That's what made them so interesting. With the Ori, they are not that interesting. What was interesting is that they scared Daniel. That gave me pause. Maybe he knows something about them that I don't...

Maybe it's me, but did anyone else wonder what Mitchell was thinking by bringing the Prior back with him? He was an unknown alien quantity - he knew nothing about him. I found that a little strange - what about the security issues? Take him to the Alpha Site first - not directly to Earth. Did he miss that part of the briefing or was that something else that Jack forgot to tell him?


High Points:
Louis Gosset Jr.: Wow. Just...wow. A great actor and a great presence in a scene. Looking forward to seeing more of him. I know Garek is suppose to be in opposition to Teal'c, but wouldn't it be great it they could find a way to work together.

Landry was better this week. I'm liking him more. He seems to be settling in as SGC commander quite nicely. Liked his style in the final briefing room scene.

Mitchell's easy going manner and charm is great, but if he says, "That's what I'm talking about!" One More Time - ! Let's find him another tag line, please.

Starting to get used to Daniel and the beard...(heaven help me)...

Felt my heart twist with the first shot of Jack. I miss him. I miss Carter. I miss all of them together....

I also miss the original show opening! That 8 second BS was even more annoying the second time around. A plague on all their houses....

[Amakusa]

Episodes like this make me miss the days of the Goa'uld before they invented Anubis. The Goa'uld were fun even though they weren't always menacing. The Ori are just menacing straight-jacket bad guys with little room for the fun factor.

Which also makes me wish they didn't leave themselves with just Baal to play around with Goa'uld-wise. Even Baal can get predictable.

[SGalisa]

haven't read anything above this yet... posting review comments first

Nice distant "city of the gods" illusion. Splashdown ring transport effect was kinda nice, too!

Origin seemed to be pure sci-fi... toss in a dash of a one-worldism theology and expand it to the entire universe, and voila are the Ori. Additionally, that metal thing wrapped around the doci's neck looks awful uncomfortable, too! Poor Lt. Col. Cameron Mitchell... getting another round of his grandma's Bible thumping, but dealing with it from the Ori's POV this time.

Actually, the Ori reminded me of the hellish side of universal darkness. The Ori speak from the depths of the everlasting (hell)fires. They claim to be purifying evil from the universe, yet seem to be the heart of evil entities themselves. This *evil* connection is reinforced by the Ori's emotionless comment that the Alterans (Ancients) are:
"those who abandoned the path of evil."

If the ascended Ancients personify heaven's humans in angelic form, then the ascended Ori personify the deceiving demonic realms. Just wondering if TPTB will go beyond into that "infinite" universe -into the next upper levels- on whether or not there is a power greater than the Ori, in order to protect our favorite SGC Stargate characters, and hold the good/evil balance in check...?

Of course, the Ori do present the Jaffa leadership with a challenging plotline other than political infrastructures.

========
* ep excerpt of Daniel with Vala, immediately after his meeting with the Ori:
Daniel: {concerned} "This is bad."

Vala: {skeptical} "...*worse* than being burned to death?!!"

* (Later) Daniel Jackson admitting he's scared...? After all he's been thru, that's a first! I half expected him to try to ascend (again! but this time to put the Ori in their rightful hellish place!). So, how he and Vala actually escaped in the last possible second was one of those SG surprises that is only guestimated during the last seconds of turning the Stargate on.

* General Landry yelling at Dr. Caroline Lam (and her reacting like "Yes Sir!")... so much for the friendly family atmosphere between them.
========

Excluding any sarcastic barbs in this ep, of the 3-part trilogy, the humor (joke-side) end seemed sporadic.
Okay, Vala holding out the apple to Daniel was *funny*... VERY symbolic of Eve offering Adam the fruit from the tree of good and evil, especially while Daniel is reading the book of Ori wisdom...

Another obvious joke that came thru as if being just another *casual* conversation, was at the end when Jack met up with Daniel. But you gotta know all of Stargate in order to get the greater effect of the joke...

Jack saying he was sorry to hear about Daniel missing the Daedalus...

Daniel: "No you're not."

{Jack pauses for a moment...}
Jack: "You're right. I'm not."


Typical Jack O'Neill (as-a-matter-of-factly deadpan humor). At least they finally got to the point in the SG series where Daniel *comfortably* toots directly back at Jack's deeply hidden humor feelings about jibing Daniel all the time, and not letting on that he's actually teasing about it...

(aka: flashback to SG-1 Season 7's "Fallen/Homecoming" ep, when Daniel tells Jonas about Jack's {annoying} ability to not let on what Jack *really* thinks of him -Jonas or Daniel.)

[Seshat]

The actor was not Ralph Fiennes but Julian Sands, best known (at least to me) from the movie Naked Lunch. (Imagine, though, if we could get A-list actors like that to guest star on SG-1/A....oh, the possibilities)

BTW, nice to see that they're going back to the tried-and-true sci-fi cliche of the bad guys having British accents.

Thank you to everyone who pointed out that that was Julian Sands! I THOUGHT that was him, although his wacky contacts threw me off a bit and I wasn't sure. I was very surprised that he was not promoted as a special guest star (at least I didn't notice a lick of PR about his upcoming appearance) and his name has pull (at least for me, ah yes, Room with a View...sigh...). He is a lovely, lovely man, and an absolute gem of an actor. I couldn't find him listed in the credits at GW OR in the IMBD credits for this ep. I certainly hope we see more of him.

[ChillinTheMost]

Mitchell's easy going manner and charm is great, but if he says, "That's what I'm talking about!" One More Time - ! Let's find him another tag line, please.

I adore Mitchell, but you're right, it can get old fast. I think right now it's just his enthusiasm with being where he wants to be [SG-1] with the team he wants to make permanent. After the "newness" wears down, I hope this catch phrase does, too.

[Sela]

If we didn't read gateworld, we wouldn't have a clue as to why Jack left the SGC or what he was doing. It's not like he's going to be returning like Sam's character, so we deserved to get some back story as canon. It's unfair to the fans, and it's a horrible disservice to the character.

I agree. We have no idea of what Jack is doing now. We really do need to know what happened and why. He was too big of a part of fabric of the show to just 'disappear' him.

[TheCorpulent1]

Somehow, I didn't read this before I posted. You said it better than I did.

Thanks.

As for the religion aspect, the Ori don't represent any branch of Christianity or any other religion that I know of. If anything, they resemble cults where the followers are relieved of their possessions, brainwashed, and not allowed contact with their families so that nobody can talk any sense into them. If the Ori start giving out Jell-O shooters: RUN!

So, I don't think the comparison is to Christianity or any other valid religion, but to those that use religion for their own deify-ment. [I know that's not a word. ]

"Deification." But I agree. The point of the Ori isn't so much to have Christian overtones, in my opinion, it's to draw attention to the fact that blind devotion and overzealousness for any religion can lead to disaster.

[golfbooy]

Well, I'm going to start by saying that depending on what your own personal sensibilities are, there was potentially a lot not to like about Origin. There are many not-veiled-at-all digs at organized religions, particularly Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, included in the script. Overall, Origin, the Ori, ect., seem designed to take a stab at religious fundamentalism, the idea that what any one person or group believes has to be absolutely the truth. You know, the people who want no questions asked or we'll kill you till you're dead, dead, dead, you blashpemous heathen, you non-believer, you corruptor of all that is good. None of that should, in and of itself, rankle anyone too much. The problem is that just about every major organized religion has been there, most assuredly done that. So, depending on who you are, it's easy to take some of what's presented, and certainly the tone in which it's presented, as insulting. Fortunately for me, I quite enjoy such discussions.

Overall, the quality of Origin was very good, just as I've come to expect from SG-1. They certainly don't seem to be having any money issues this year. The sets were very appropriate for the story, the costumes work well in helping to convey the basic ideas behind the Ori, and, well, the SGC set is always going to have juice. Also, and this is not my particular cup of tea, the special effects were impressive, helping to convey a broad impression of the Ori; I'd be remiss not to mention Joel Goldsmith's score in this regard as well. As many have stated, it's extremely well conceived and quite apropos.

Origin is, without a doubt, a functional story, an "information dump" as someone above called it. And, it is undeniably that. But I refuse to hold that against it, as it was very necessary in order to keep things rolling along. After Avalon 1 & 2 there had to be some explanation of where SG-1 is headed. I'm surprised to see some complaints that the Ori don't have enough depth or definition. This is only their first appearance, the writer's first foray into that storyline. There's undoubtably more to come, and I'd personally prefer not to learn all about them up front. If they're going to last as villains, and if the comments from Bridge are any indication, they're expected to, then I'll take my Ori a bit at a time, thank you very much.

Guest casting worked well for me, as well. Stargate usually casts actors in roles that they'll play well, and Origin is no exception. Julian Sands is an excellent choice as the doci, and the priors were well played too. The introduction to Lou Gossett's Gerak was more subdued than I expected it to be, though I don't think it necessarily weakened the character's presence. He's carefully being set up as an antagonist, one that seems to irk Teal'c simply with his presence. So far, and given the spoilers that I'm too weak to avoid, he seems to me to be the first Jaffa since Bra'tac to be so carefully constructed. I hope he works out as a truly memorable character along the lines of Mayborne or Kinsey, and not just as another Jaffa.

Neither Vala nor Mitchell had much to do in this episode, though I thought they both played their parts well. Mitchell, as a character, we seem to be getting in small doses, probably much to the chagrin of the entertainment media considering the ubiquitious articles touting Ben Browder as the new star. Personally, I like that we're not getting Mitchell shoved down our throats, even if the media is pushing with battering ram. I've never found Vala too annoying, and I still think she makes a fine recurring character. I'm not tired of her yet, and some sort of backstory will be welcome. For me, Landry was much better in this episode, much more toned down. Beau Bridges seemed to be trying too hard most of the time, but barring the scene where he announces that Daniel and Vala are once again awake, this week I thought his performance was good.

Originally Posted by Skydiver:
landry is ok, but i wish beau would lose the gruff hoarseness in his voice. or maybe it's always that way. his whispering gets on my nerves

Yeah, the hoarse, whispering delivery is very annoying. Hopefully, he'll leave it behind as he becomes more comfortable.

Both Daniel and Michael Shanks gave great performances here. Daniel's conversation with the doci was quintessential Daniel Jackson, and it was very much in keeping with SG-1's tone. The only thing that scene lacked, for me, was Carter, Teal'c and, O'neill standing there as he said it. Speaking of Teal'c, I'm a little disappointed that he hasn't had a bigger role, or that the Jaffa storyline didn't get more screentime. But, there's only 42 minutes, and I'm willing to wait. Chris Judge has been terrific with very little dialogue so far. I hope he has much more to come.

As for O'neill, I can sort of see the complaint of, "Why bother?" with just that. But I didn't see anything wrong with the scene, didn't see the two characters as disconnected. I think that Jack's declaration that he's hungry was in character, and I thought that both of his scenes were well written. In fact, such remarks have oft been used by Jack to deflect his own personal feelings, especially in the face of someone else's broad declaration of emotion. Redemption and Lost City spring immediately to mind. I did want Teal'c to be there with O'neill and Daniel, though. The argument against would likely be that such a scene only further highlights Carter's absence, but some nod to the original team would have been fitting. Ulitmately, however, I just want more Jack.

Lastly, I have to say that if the show is lacking anything, it's lacking Sam Carter. It's odd to think that all of this is going on without her there, even though the compressed time frame helps. I think that all of the characters will be more comfortable when she returns, and I personally can't wait till Beachead.

[Albion]

I'm not nearly as angry as Albion

Yeah, it was nearly almost a coherent rant, wasn't it? That was smack off the bat of the end credits coming up. Calmed down a tad now. Not so furious, but more just sad and disappointed that they handled things so poorly. Really, I just don't get what they were thinking to deal with Jack's leaving in this manner.

Still haven't given up on S9. But I suspect that's more because I'm reluctant to do so than because of anything the writers are doing to make me want to stay.

Looking forward to next week though in the hopes of something better and anticipating that perhaps Sam's return in a few weeks will improve things even more.

Albion

[oragans]

i loved the episode it for me was one of the best - i haven't missed o'neil that much - the ori scary and are an awesome enemy.

[SophieTucker]

I thought it was a great ep - one that I really need to watch again.

I agree that merely approaching the topic of religion is dangerous because so much can be misinterpreted (so much to say on that) but I think they did do a good job. And this wasn't the only story - there is still the situation with power mongers preying on the vulnerable (the Jaffa leadership battle)

I'm still finding Landry to one of the stronger characters this season.

What disturbs me are the all the comments comparing the Ori to Christianity. Of course not everyone agrees as to what Christianity is but I saw some basic fundamentals here - which a lot of people seem to have overlooked. What I mean is the battle between "free agency" and "coercion" - agency is the Christian point of view - force is the "other guy"... didn't anyone notice when Daniel mentioned that fire in Earth lore had become associated with "demons" he wondered if the Ancients were responsible for that... I suppose if Dante was a Ancient that is possible. Still if we applied that analogy to the Stargate pantheon that would make the Ancients the Christianlike beings and the Ori the Satanlike beings setting us up for the basic battle of good and evil. Now, that does sound familiar.

I think it was best described by a prior poster who pointed out that the Ori are some very powerful aliens who try to control people - nothing more or less. Still I think the story has some real potential for either major success or major disaster.

[AGateFan]

I thought it was a great ep - one that I really need to watch again.

I agree that merely approaching the topic of religion is dangerous because so much can be misinterpreted (so much to say on that) but I think they did do a good job. And this wasn't the only story - there is still the situation with power mongers preying on the vulnerable (the Jaffa leadership battle)

I'm still finding Landry to one of the stronger characters this season.

What disturbs me are the all the comments comparing the Ori to Christianity. Of course not everyone agrees as to what Christianity is but I saw some basic fundamentals here - which a lot of people seem to have overlooked. What I mean is the battle between "free agency" and "coercion" - agency is the Christian point of view - force is the "other guy"... didn't anyone notice when Daniel mentioned that fire in Earth lore had become associated with "demons" he wondered if the Ancients were responsible for that... I suppose if Dante was a Ancient that is possible. Still if we applied that analogy to the Stargate pantheon that would make the Ancients the Christianlike beings and the Ori the Satanlike beings setting us up for the basic battle of good and evil. Now, that does sound familiar.

I think it was best described by a prior poster who pointed out that the Ori are some very powerful aliens who try to control people - nothing more or less. Still I think the story has some real potential for either major success or major disaster.

Oh I definitly think they set it up for the Ori to be like Satan and the Ancients to be like Christians. But there are some Christians\catholics\prodestants\lutherans\later day sainters that will find that insulting too. They will beleive it is an attempt to trivilize the religion. After all to Christians Jesus is the Son of God not an ascended anceint. And there are some people who are touchy and who can not deal with fiction that even sorta maybe hints that it could be otherwise even if it is just fiction... Thats all I was saying earlier.

[Giantevilhead]

The Ori are like the Pah Wraiths and the Ancients are like the Prophets from DS9.

[LoneStar1836]

Origin gets a big ol’ “Bleh!” from me. Didn’t like it.

Don’t like the direction they are taking with the heavy religious overtones. No thanks. This is my biggest dislike.

Didn’t like Mitchell in this one even though he was barely in it. And I really want to like this guy because I enjoy BB, yet I’m afraid he is going to be targeted as causing the downfall of SG-1 which he had no hand in. I want him to be more serious. Ditch the sarcasm and attempted humor, and not because I think they are trying to make him into a Jack but because I just don’t like it. The writers make him say some of this stuff, and all I can see is John Chricton snarking off. Hehe. At least he did do what I wanted to do and toss that device into the kawoosh. He earned points there. I’m still crossing my fingers for the character.

Don’t care for the Jaffa blah blah. Sorry, I don’t really care about all their political wrangling. Yes, that is a major repercussion of doing away with the Goa’uld, but it doesn’t really interest me. How many cuddly bunnies did Garak kill to make that coat and whatever that other thing was that he was wearing? Sorry. But when I’m sitting there thinking more about the actor’s wardrobe than whatever the heck he was saying, you’ve really lost me. I just couldn’t get over all the faux fur. And no I’m not a PETA supporter.

Hated the send off for Jack. Couldn’t they at least had Shanks and RDA in the same freaking room. I mean buy MS a ticket to LA and film what you had to film. I didn’t like that. Not to mention that Teal’c and Carter weren’t included. It felt all wrong. Heck, I don’t even really remember what was even said in that scene between Jack and Daniel for being distracted by the obviousness that they weren’t even in the same room. I think the dialogue was fitting from what I remember in between my hating of how they filmed that, but I just hated the feel of that scene. Eh, Jack giving Mitchell his blessing. I can see him doing that but still it felt off and fake. *shrug* I miss the old competent Col. Jack O’Neill. The show will never be the same again. ETA: After finally reading some of this thread, I forgot to mention that yes I so hated RDA's performance in this ep as well. So not only couldn't I stand the fact that he and MS weren't in the same room, the whole send off was pitiful because RDA was obvioulsy having a bad day or something. Something he suffered from during the past two seasons. His heart was not in that.

Sorry, I just didn’t like this episode. So far none of these episodes have been very enthralling. I didn’t even watch all of last week’s episode cause we were watching the Houston Astros game and then didn’t bother to catch the second showing. And again last night I chose the Astros game over both eps of Stargate and caught the second showings of each. The Astros are kicking ass right now, Stargate is not. Bear in mind that’s just my personal opinion even if it is rather ugly. If people are really liking Stargate: SG-1 this season, then I’m happy for you.

Props to MS and CB. Even though I’m not feeling this storyline, their acting was good, especially MS. Though he still needs to tone it down with the speed reading of dialogue in spots. Surprisingly, Vala was not on my hate list. Shock. See what you can do writers when you drop the stupid, childish humor.

[AGateFan]

The Ori are like the Pah Wraiths and the Ancients are like the Prophets from DS9.

The Ori are like the Shadows and the Anceints are like the Vorlons from B5... sort of. I think both the Prophets and the Vorlons interfered more then the "others" would appreciate... The Ancients seem more like the Q... at least the Q from the Star Trek books.