Avalon, Part 2 (902)

[Seshat]

Question: If Daniel and Vala's consciousness were inserted into Harrid and Sallis, where are Harrid and Sallis' consciousness? Suppressed, but still in their own bodies? They obviously weren't transferred into Daniel and Vala, as Vala's body back at the SGC was reacting to events in Renaissance-World. So it wasn't a body swap, so much as a body invasion? Do you think Harrid and Sallis know what's going on - that their bodies are being used against their will using 'alien mind control'? Just because Daniel can't 'sense' Harrid's mind doesn't necessarily mean that Harrid can't sense Daniel's. And just how ethical is that of the Ancients who designed the device that allows this? How is this any different from Machello? Or Lifeboat guy? And you can't say 'well, this way causes no real harm' - because we don't know that do we, really? Besides, they are still using someone's body forcibly against their will, which I take it, is still a crime in any galaxy...

Speaking of the device, there were maybe a dozen (?) 'outlets' on the machine. How is it that when the stones were inserted they connected Daniel and Vala to two people in the same place, and not two people on different planets? Was the device set so that it would ONLY project them to its sister stones? Would inserting the stones in ANY of the 'outlets' in the device on earth have connected them to the same two bodies, regardless? There are alot of 'outlets', does that mean that 12 consciousness could be sent into twelve different people at once? But only all in the same place? Or can the individual 'outlets' be set for different people on different planets?

Just wondering what is in the writers' little minds...

[George Costanza]

They kind of did it in S1 (Fire and Water), only I'm guessing that at they had smaller FX budget back then...

You're right, but that wasn't nearly as graphic as this.

Also, I forgot to mention a few things...

The music was awesome. I loved all of it, and especially the sinister chanting. Wow. Last time music was so prominently featured was in Children of the Gods.

I liked Mitchell and Landry, great additions to the show. Mitchell is differentiating himself from O'Neill already, I like him.

The new doctor is also great, good actress. I'm glad we have a new one, because I HATED Janet, hehe.

Swordfight was good, liked the little flashbacks.

Liked Teal'c outburst to Raknor, I think this may be an interesting storyline.

I can't believe so few people have mentioned how awesome that Prior was...

[Piratejenna]

A lot of interesting reviews in this thread, and I agree with a lot of the comments. Just a few extra thoughts:

I seriously, totally, absolutely HATE the short opening credits! This is no way to set up drama. It's supposed to be about building up anticipation and excitement, and you can't do that with a pathetic sparrow-fart for an overture.

TPTB are really trusting in the intelligence of the audience with the opening episodes. They are still revealing the pieces of the puzzle, dropping hints, keeping the focus on character, but in this episode, making it increasingly clear that there are big revelations to come. There's a lot of complex plotting going on here, as well as character development.

The fun and frolics in the caves is resolved fairly swiftly, and then we take a big step forward as the communication device comes into play. The Quantum leap jump into new bodies is deftly handled, so what could have been pretty confusing becomes fairly easy to accept. Meanwhile, there's a nice sense of controlled chaos back at the SGC as the new folk try to handle the situation without the safety blanket of 'been there, done that'. Dr Lam looks a good addition. I like her rather abrupt manner and the fact she's not necessarily an instantly likeable 'nice' character - there's a little bit of edge there that makes her interesting.

The visits to Jaffa-land were brief but essential (anything more would have got in the way of the story) - a lot of ground-work is laid in a very economical way. More importantly, there is a major character beat for Teal'c. The big problem for the writers is how to get Teal'c back into the centre of the story, because with the Jaffa now free, he's lost his original motivation. It wouldn't do the character justice if he simply scuttled back to the Tauri because he had failed in Jaffa politics. But in one line, we see Teal'c finding new motivation: his mission with SG-1 is, through exploration and knowledge, to find a way to move the Jaffa towards peace. He hasn't yet made the decision to go back, but he has already found his reason to do it.

Daniel and Vala are the heart and soul of this story. Daniel's motivation for using the Communication Device is obvious but nicely symbolic. Daniel is and always should be the great communicator of the show. However, I like the fact he doesn't make the decision alone. It is clear from the context that Landry and Mitchell and Lee have all given their blessing to the attempt - so its not a case of Daniel being irresponsible, but of Daniel doing his job. Vala's motivation shifts (outwardly at least) from the moment Daniel starts reading the book out loud. You can see her brain moving from the physical treasure to the idea of ancient knowledge. Or is this always what she expected? Seems to me that Vala knows more about the ancients than she originally let on...

The way the show moves towards the burning of Vala is nicely done. It starts when the Resistance leader/heretic (anyone catch his name?) comes to see them, and Daniel decides to tell him the truth. Daniel and Vala both clearly expect him to react as though they're insane, reflecting the audience's expectations. Of course this medieval peasant isn't going to believe their ridiculous story. But, surprise, he does! Truth is instantly rewarded. (The audience is being set up). Vala goes off to 'drink leaves' with the administrator's wife, we get some more slow but vital exposition, and then things start to spiral out of control. It's a shame we couldn't actually see what happened to Vala at the tea party, because when she tells it, it sounds hilarious. But there is a rather sad note hidden away here. When the administrators wife starts to suspect her, she tries to tell the truth (after all, it had just worked when Daniel did it in the previous scene). But in Vala's case, truth is a disaster, and she is about to be punished horribly.

Then, as the fire starts to flow, and the danger becomes more apparent, Daniel tells the truth again. Because its already worked before, a lot of people in the audience (the unspoiled majority) are going to assume that he will talk their way out of the problem. There's actually a moment when the Administrator turns, and you think he might stop proceedings. All this time, as the fire is starting to circle Vala, the audience expects it to turn out OK. It's only when the fire actually reaches Vala's clothes, and you hear the pain and fear in her voice, that the whole thing becomes intensely and shockingly real. This is a neat flip from comedy to tragedy.

The aftermath, when Vala is brought back to life, also helps sell the horror of that scene. Too often in Stargate, people shake off the effects of some awful trauma or injury without any sense of future consequences. I didn't feel that here. I loved Daniel's compassion (although I agree with those who say he would have done this for anyone - it's not that Vala is special). I especially loved the fact that Vala was desperately trying not to meet his eyes. When she snuggles into Daniel's shoulder, it's not for comfort - I think she's hiding from him because she doesn't want him to see her like this. Superb acting (again) from MS and CB.

I agree about the music - absolutely perfect for those final scenes.

[QuiGonJohn]

I liked this one too. I can't remember, did Daniel & Vala get free from Harrid & Sallis at the end?

I wonder where all the Jaffa storyline will be going. Should be interesting.

[TheCorpulent1]

Why is everyone calling the village that Harrid and Sallis live in "Renaissance world"? I thought it was closer to a medieval look.

[Posherella]

Everyone's said what I think so far.

Overall, I AM liking the new season. I am not missing RDA or even AT very much yet, although I will forever miss the dynamic of the original four together.. I think this new season can reinvent the series and move it in the right direction so it can continue on.

I liked Landry right up to the point where, while Jackson and Vala are trapped in their own concious and could die (again) at any moment, he asks Dr. Lam where to put his flipping desk. I mean, there are more pressing issues to worry about! He's definitely not showing Hammond's compassion so far and I don't like it. If he's going to work with SG-1, he has to care about them and this job. Their safety should hang over him and weigh on him like a ton of bricks. What's next? Daniel will go missing and he'll mull it over during a game of golf followed by drinks and fun at his country club?

I do like the fact that Daniel tried to convince Landry over and over again that they needed to do something with the communication device and Landry didn't need to be sold, so he just kept agreeing and giving Daniel free reign. Daniel obviously isn't used to that.

Speaking of the delicious Dr. Jackson, I think he's yummy with his beard. I hope he'll keep it for a while.

I can definitely see how some find her annoying, but I love Vala and how she and Jackson play off each other all the time. I love their sexual chemistry and would be totally stoked to see Jackson try to deal with a romantic relationship while on SG-1. After all, he's not in the military so no one should have a problem with him having a relationship. I really wouldn't mind if they were handcuffed together through the whole of Season 9.

I can't stand all this Jaffa storyline - I never could. I like this show for its sci-fi aspect. The political part on Earth is okay when it's directly related to the Stargate Program, but this Jaffa stuff is so freakin' boring... does ANYONE really care about it? I'm tired of their storyline creeping into the show for the past few seasons. I have a distinct feeling that this storyline is something Christopher Judge has REALLY been pushing for and I like CJ and all, but... I just don't feel this Jaffa political crap belongs on a show about EXPLORERS OF OTHER WORLDS.

[SmartFox]

The plot wasn't bad i think, but executed poorly. I was very disapointed in the temple and traps, everytime they failed and all they had to do was try again and they could succeed. Not that hard. I mean for example the pots, there were 2 options, and they succeed because they got it right on the SECOND try.

The whole fight sequence with the knight and Cameron i can let slide that he beat the highly traind knight after a few lessons years and years ago.

I almost started dancing when i saw Vala die, then i almost started crying when i saw her come back to live. Guess you cant have everything.

The Doc and the General i still havent decided on if i like them but they are defintly doing better then goodie two shoes Mr.Mitchell. Im starting not to like his personality and maybe as he starts going on missions (maybe see a few people die) he wont be Mr. Chipper any more.

Oh yea and if they plan on taking Teal'c away from his Jaffa they better have a darn good reason or i will take another step towards not watching the rest of the season 9.

[sparklegem]

Question: If Daniel and Vala's consciousness were inserted into Harrid and Sallis, where are Harrid and Sallis' consciousness? Suppressed, but still in their own bodies? They obviously weren't transferred into Daniel and Vala, as Vala's body back at the SGC was reacting to events in Renaissance-World. So it wasn't a body swap, so much as a body invasion? Do you think Harrid and Sallis know what's going on - that their bodies are being used against their will using 'alien mind control'? Just because Daniel can't 'sense' Harrid's mind doesn't necessarily mean that Harrid can't sense Daniel's. And just how ethical is that of the Ancients who designed the device that allows this? How is this any different from Machello? Or Lifeboat guy? And you can't say 'well, this way causes no real harm' - because we don't know that do we, really? Besides, they are still using someone's body forcibly against their will, which I take it, is still a crime in any galaxy...

Well, perhaps the Ancients only intended it to be used by willing participants. But that was not the case here. If the hosts could sense what was going on, I can't imagine how out-of-her-mind terrified Salis was being burned at the stake. I mean, there were really two innocent people being killed, not an innocent person like Daniel said. But I don't expect him to be perfectly precise in the heat of a dire moment when people are in danger. And I know Daniel and Vala couldn't do anything about it, but as much as Daniel hates the Goa'uld and if Vala really was a host herself once, I was kind of surprised that neither (especially Daniel, because of his role as the moral conscience of SG-1) made any sort of comment about their situation and the issues of it.

[dec55]

I consider this one of the best epsiodes ever. And I am extremely pleased
to see Lam showing up in the 2nd episode!!!! Loved the accuracy of the way
she handled all the medical terms and the portrayal of true medical professionalism. It was like ER meets Stargate. Lexa's portrayal was gritty,
passionate, and humorous at times. Since she is a civilain she can be as sarcastic as she wants. I love her portrayal as a young doctor with a soul of
a old seasoned one. She takes no backtalk or slacking when it comes to her job.
She can be emotional and blunt outside of her duties...but when it comes
to her patients they have her full attention. What a fantastic addition to the
cast. Adding to a great list of actors and actresses before on the show.

Lam's and Landry's relationship is going to be a interesting one. Both seem to
be causual and almost close, but there is an underlying tension between them
that I am sure will come out in following episodes. They definitely have chemistry. I know Lexa and Shanks with Christopher have chemisty....and
it looks like everyone on the show really work excellent together!!! Lexa definitely plays off Beau really brilliantly.


I also can't wait for Lam to meet Carter....it really is going to be a hoot!!!

It was great to see Lexa in normal clothes...she does look great in cotton!!!

[TheCorpulent1]

I liked Landry right up to the point where, while Jackson and Vala are trapped in their own concious and could die (again) at any moment, he asks Dr. Lam where to put his flipping desk. I mean, there are more pressing issues to worry about! He's definitely not showing Hammond's compassion so far and I don't like it. If he's going to work with SG-1, he has to care about them and this job. Their safety should hang over him and weigh on him like a ton of bricks. What's next? Daniel will go missing and he'll mull it over during a game of golf followed by drinks and fun at his country club?

That didn't bother me. Think about it: You've got the safety of two members of your command at stake, but there's really nothing you can do about it personally. Meanwhile, you've just found out that your (apparently) estranged daughter has been assigned as the new lead doctor of your facility. You can't help with the problem facing your people directly, but you can awkwardly try to reconnect with your daughter when she shows up at your office. Landry obviously doesn't care about his desk that much, it was just something that happened to be on his mind right then and he tried to use it to break the ice and get his daughter talking to him.

And, for the second time, by the second episode that we saw Hammond in command of the SGC, he strongly disliked Daniel despite the fact that Daniel's wife was just kidnapped, and he wasn't too hot on Jack either for disobeying orders with the Stargate the first time around. Hammond's compassion for his people grew over time, it wasn't an instantaneous thing. Give Landry the time Hammond got to connect with the team members before jumping on him for being insensitive.

[the fifth man]

That didn't bother me. Think about it: You've got the safety of two members of your command at stake, but there's really nothing you can do about it personally. Meanwhile, you've just found out that your (apparently) estranged daughter has been assigned as the new lead doctor of your facility. You can't help with the problem facing your people directly, but you can awkwardly try to reconnect with your daughter when she shows up at your office. Landry obviously doesn't care about his desk that much, it was just something that happened to be on his mind right then and he tried to use it to break the ice and get his daughter talking to him.

And, for the second time, by the second episode that we saw Hammond in command of the SGC, he strongly disliked Daniel despite the fact that Daniel's wife was just kidnapped, and he wasn't too hot on Jack either for disobeying orders with the Stargate the first time around. Hammond's compassion for his people grew over time, it wasn't an instantaneous thing. Give Landry the time Hammond got to connect with the team members before jumping on him for being insensitive.

Totally agree with you on this one. So far I'm pleased with Landry, and can't wait to see him develop over the course of this season. I've always liked Beau Bridges, and definitely will give him a chance. He does have some big shoes to fill though ( Hammond ).

[TheCorpulent1]

True, Hammond was a very stable "rock" for the show to build around for much of its existence. Hell, the one time he acted out of character and suddenly quit the SGC, there was a whole episode dedicated to explaining it and it made him look even more noble. Landry's certainly different, but I've liked the differences so far. As opposed to Hammond, who basically sat back and let the team do its thing with utmost trust in their abilities, Landry's new to the fold and is willing to get into a lot of people's faces to establish his strength at the top of the chain of command and run the SGC to the best of his ability. If he still seems strange, well, I'd chalk it up to two major factors:

1) The SGC, for all intents and purposes, has nothing to do anymore. The Replicators and Goa'uld are gone, and with them went the imminent threat to Earth. Even if there were still an imminent threat to Earth, however, we've come a long way and fulfilled the standing orders of the SGC admirably: We've got man-made interstellar battle-cruisers capable of intergalactic travel in just under 3 weeks (thanks in large part to the Asgard), we've got a fleet of highly advanced space/planetside fighter craft in the F302s, we've got a good measure of knowledge regarding the Ancients thanks to Daniel and Atlantis, etc. Earth is basically living large at the moment.

2) There IS no SG-1. There's Mitchell with a loose agreement of cooperation from Teal'c and Daniel, and there's Vala, the catalyst for the events taking place at the moment who's become a bit of a tag-along to Daniel's great, Ancient adventure. These people are not a team; thus, Landry doesn't treat them as such. He treats Vala as a dishonest vagrant, Mitchell as the new kid who's still got a lot to prove, Daniel as the scientist who needs to provide evidence rather than speculations, and Teal'c as... uh, actually, there hasn't really been any interaction between Landry and Teal'c, has there? Anyway, the new dynamic brings out new qualities in all of them, meaning they're all still adjusting and getting used to things. Landry feels no need to really acquaint himself with Daniel or Teal'c, since they've already expressed their desire to leave the SGC.

[the fifth man]

Great post. Gotta agree. That's why I can't wait to see this season unfold. See the new people settle into their roles, how they deal in pressure situations. It truly is like watching a brand new show in many respects. Should be great as well to see new bonds develop. It's my hope that the new new sg-1 will care for each other just as much as the old sg-1.

[AGateFan]

1) The SGC, for all intents and purposes, has nothing to do anymore. The Replicators and Goa'uld are gone, and with them went the imminent threat to Earth. Even if there were still an imminent threat to Earth, however, we've come a long way and fulfilled the standing orders of the SGC admirably: We've got man-made interstellar battle-cruisers capable of intergalactic travel in just under 3 weeks (thanks in large part to the Asgard), we've got a fleet of highly advanced space/planetside fighter craft in the F302s, we've got a good measure of knowledge regarding the Ancients thanks to Daniel and Atlantis, etc. Earth is basically living large at the moment.

I want to bask in the glow of this statement for a few minutes.... We have come a long way since the "we have a number of .... shuttles" line in THE SERPENT'S LAIR havent we.

Aaahhhhh battle-cuisers.....

[the fifth man]

A very long way. Thats why I love the show so much. Look where these characters and events have led us.