Moebius, Part 1 (819)

[carry123]

ok, I need someone to explain this to me. I'm a little slow on the uptake. How could (will) the real SG-1 go back to their real timeline, now we know it's already been changed?

[IMForeman]

Now this was just a very entertaining, but very strange, very bizzare episode. Lot of interesting stuff being set up for, and a great deal of self reference. ery fun so far... bring on ep2.

"Just because my reproductive organs are on the inside instead of the outside... STUPID!!! Who would ever say that?!?"

-IMF

[IMForeman]

ok, I need someone to explain this to me. I'm a little slow on the uptake. How could (will) the real SG-1 go back to their real timeline, now we know it's already been changed?

The Title explains it. It's a Moebius loop. SG-1 goes back and causes this change, but leaves the info on how to send alternaSG-1 back who causes things to revert. A leads to B, B leads to C, C leads to A.

-IMF

[BuuZeroC]

i think it will occur similar to how the alternate timeline occured. So my guess is that oDaniel and AU Sg1 will die/not return in/from the past such that the timeline is more or less fixed so with the gate still in giza time will occur as it had before only when the tape and ZMP the SGC is around now to ultilize it, so it will be reset button episode, but with one heck of a ride

[ElanaM]

I just have one question, but how the hell are the going to fix this especially since

Spoiler:

Daniel is the ONLY surviving team member in ancient Egypt, are they going to use the alternates?

If anyone has any theories, please tell me.

My guess is

Spoiler:

real Daniel dies (he is goa'ulded apparently) as does the alternate team. This results in a third timeline which is closer to the original. One of the differences this time though is that in the 3rd timeline the ZPM is found at the Egyptian dig (along with another video) circumventing the need for our SG1 to go back to ancient Egypt. The reset could have them mention the finding after the defeat of Anubis and before the fishing scene in Threads.

[Stargate Agent]

Why does Sky One refer to these episodes as the SERIES FINALE?? shouldn't it be the SEASON FINALE?? Or does Sky One have a bunch of drunk people up in marketing...?

[cybersyd]

Technically in the UK we don't have seasons, we have 'series.' I work for a large tv company in the UK and when we buy episodes from production companies, we pay for a "series" not a season (so... Dalziel and Pascoe series 2). It gets very confusing.

I think I'm opposite to you guys because I thought the first half was weak and the second half brilliant. The beginning just felt rushed - in about ten minutes a recurring(ish) character had died, they'd located a ZPM, gone back in time, retrieved the ZPM, and got trapped. It was too quick and clunky.

And I still find it hard to believe that Sam would ever agree to them stealing something from the past. They had no real idea of the ZPM's importance in the time-line (for all they knew, it could have been destined to fall off a shelf and knock a Jaffa unconscious, thus allowing the slaves to rebel) and it just seemed like the writers were sacrificing character canon for the sake of getting to the AU.

Fortunately, I adored the AU. Amanda was wonderful as Sam - still brilliantly intelligent but afraid of her own ideas. Loved that both AU Sam and AU Daniel had terrible fashion sense. O'Neill's reaction to it all was completely believable, given the movie-O'Neill (and the "Homer!" Hee!).

[Silver]

Ooh, posting for the first time here...

Was a bit disappointed with "Moebius part 1". Seeing as though it's suppose to be the first part of a season finale, it wasn't exactly the most exciting ep. ever. Although hopefully part 2 will make up for that. I just found the whole alternate timeline/future thing confusing, and the alternative Sam and Daniel, albeit very funny, were too unlike theirselves. Surely things can't have changed that much in the sense that they seem completely different characters? SO geeky, lol. Only Jack seemed like himself!

Loved the bits with SG-1 in Egypt though... nice to see Jack on a mission! I just hope they'll be more of the proper SG-1 in part 2.

Where they're in prison, and where Sam and Jack are walking through the desert, does anyone know if they're our SG-1 or the alternate characters?

[Steam]

I did not see anyone post a better picture of the daedalus, so I took one:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...s/d2c5fea7.jpg

Did you not see my kickass drawing i made? lol.




And why do people keep fussing how things have changed for all you no the 1 jaffa the zatted might have been the one to lead the uprising? so therefor it might of happened at a different time witch would then result in a big difference in time. Maybe Jacob new hammond throught someone else but in the past that persons ancestors may have been killed due to the lack of the uprosing. ya see even the littlst things can alter the future greatly, like when homer steps on the bug lol

[Buzz Lightyear]

And I still find it hard to believe that Sam would ever agree to them stealing something from the past. They had no real idea of the ZPM's importance in the time-line (for all they knew, it could have been destined to fall off a shelf and knock a Jaffa unconscious, thus allowing the slaves to rebel) and it just seemed like the writers were sacrificing character canon for the sake of getting to the AU.

Good analysis of the inherent problems of writing a time travel story where trying NOT to change history is a key goal.

I'm really surprised the writers didn't have SG-1 replace the ZPM they pilfer from Ra with a fake mock-up so no suspicions are raised.

[Chaka's_Mum]

They did indeed rather gallop through the opening - but then again, we needed quite a bit of time to become acquainted with the AT versions of their characters.

I thought that both the AU Sam and Daniel were great fun; and I loved the re-use of the 'reproductive organs' quote, particularly as this version of Sam couldn't believe she'd just come up with such a comparison! In fact, there were numerous occasions when I laughed like a drain. After all the drama of the last three eps, it was nice to have a comic element to this one.

Daniel was still incredibly enthusiastic about his theories on the Pyramids (and, in that sense was largely unchanged from his original timeline self - apart from the truly shocking dress-sense), and Sam was still a highly intelligent astrophysicist (though she's now gawky, awkward and isn't much better dressed than Daniel - though I note she still seems to enjoy eating blue jelly).

It's quite amazing that so much could be changed just by one event: Ra taking the Giza Stargate with him when he leaves. Without a Stargate, there is no evidence to give Daniel's theories a firmer footing and no route for Sam to follow in developing it as a working piece of technology; there's no way that her own progressive theories can find that same firm footing, so no one takes her seriously either.

The two alternate Sams we've seen previously haven't been that far away from our Sam in character - but they've all been involved in a Stargate Programme, even if they didn't enter the Air Force. This Sam hasn't - and it seems to have resulted in her 'falling by the wayside' as an academic theorist (with a knock-on effect of her losing her self-confidence).

As for Jack, the lack of a Stargate has prevented his return to the Air Force to liberate Abydos (and therefore has missed out on the consequences of that mission). Instead, he's retreated to the coast to operate (sort of) a Marine Angling tour boat. Given that he is doing this on his own, we must assume I suppose that his son has still died, and his marriage has still foundered - but he's had no focus to recover, so he's drifting. Almost literally, given the state of that boat.

Worst of all; Kinsey is president (aaaaaaaaaaaaargh! Nooooooooooooo!!).

All thanks to the finding of one puddle jumper.

That'll teach 'em to mess with timelines

[Blend]

i liked it. look forward to pt 2

[suzziq1]

great episode - just a few points:

1 why would president kinsey agree to the whole deal of going back for sg1, and changing time back to its originality, when he isn't president in the original timeline (whether he's the Kinsey we've come to know and love/hate! or a nicer person)

2 time travel is only a theory, who knows what effect time travel will have on time lines - the writers can do or say whatever they like and we cannot dispute the effects, or their ideas.

I think time travel is impossible anyway - as the past does not exist any more and the future hasn't happened yet!

Anyone notice how Sam wiped her hand on her leg after shaking hands with Mackay!

Anyway just a few thoughts!!

[kashi]

okay that was awesome! Best SG-1 episode for a long time.

SPOILERS Atlantis 1.20

The ZPM recovered was able to be sent to Atlantis in the regular timeline, which means that they managed to fix the problem. Another possibility is that they don't manage to fully fix the problem, and the Atlantis series will now be based on a different timeline...how's that for preventing overlap between the two series'!?!?! Either way, I am really enjoying the way both SG-1 and Atlantis are exploring the concepts related to time travel.

[Albion]

Why does Sky One refer to these episodes as the SERIES FINALE?? shouldn't it be the SEASON FINALE?? Or does Sky One have a bunch of drunk people up in marketing...?

It's just a difference in US/UK language. You call them seasons, we call them series. If you look at UK DVDs of UK shows, you'll see it'll say 'Complete Series 2' rather than 'Complete Season 2' for instance.

I have mixed feelings about this episode. Been reading a few of the comments, but not all of them (yowsa 118 already?!?) and see that some fans have similiar feelings to me. I enjoyed it, I really did, but it left me feeling a little...flat...somehow. I've watched it three times so far trying to figure out why and I just can't put my finger on it.

I think I agree that it might have been better paced if we had had the whole of the first part devoted to the real SG1's mission/dilemma/predicament in the first half and the second half had been left to the alternates being brought together and fixing the damaged timeline. As it was, I was taken by surprise that the alternates and their storyline appeared midway through part one. Thinking about it, this meant that I kind of feel the real SG1's contribution to the storyline was kind of rushed. It could have been even more dramatic, poignant, whatever if it had taken more time.

Spoiler:

However, it seems likely that there will be interaction with the real SG1 back in 3,000 BC and the alternates in part two, so that might balance things out.

I really have the suspicion that, more than any other two part episodes I've ever seen, this one really needs it's part two before it will come into its own. I think that once I see part two, and can get the opportunity to watch this as one complete story, it'll emerge as one of my favourite episodes. But on its own, it seemed...lacking somehow.

There was much to like though [in no particular order as ever]:

* Jack's boat being named Homer - and obviously named by a drunk Jack to go by the sloppy writing and the bad paint job.

* Geek Daniel and Sam. They were pretty funny, often hilarious, and made me laugh out loud more than once, although I did feel that AT was trying too hard at points. Once she settled into it though, she got just a little more subtle about it and it worked much better. I loved the way her hair ended up looking like an explosion in a hayloft after she pulled the lifejacket over her head. LOL.

* Geek Daniel and Sam bonding as a little team of two. That was very cute and a delight to watch. Loved Daniel's "No, I'm not letting them cut you out either. We're supposed to be a team here." Like Sam said, "Sweet."

* Really enjoyed the Egypt scenes. But thought that the effect of the timeship travelling back in time was somewhat understated and a little disappointing. Not very dramatic. Wobble - oh, we've gone back in time.

* Almost did myself a mischief laughing at Jack trying to escape the rocks in the briefing room. Great Daniel/Jack interaction there. And nice touch to bring back...Wells was it? Whatsisname from Heroes anyway...to be the one boring Jack to tears with his finds.

* Some nice Jackisms:

"If I have to say what one more time, heads are gonna roll!"

"She wouldn't even let me go back to watch the Cubs win the World Series!"

"Let me do it now, so I won't have to in 5,000 years."

"No, I've got a better idea. Let's take back our ship!"

* MacKay was a complete PITA - don't you just love him?

* Loved the scene where Daniel and Sam smugly show Davis that Sam's found the second gate. LOL. Their expressions there were hilarious. But, OMG! For pity's sake, hurry up and fix that timeline! That moustache on Davis was horrific. SG1 should be court martialed and thrown into prison without a key just for causing that monstrosity alone!

* Jack on the boat having trouble believing the two geeks in front of him save the world on a regular basis.

Spoiler:

Really looking forward to seeing him decide he wants in in part two. Watching him interact with those two should be a whole barrel of fun.

* Oh! How could I forget? Hammond! How lovely to see him back doing what he does best.

The two alternate Sams we've seen previously haven't been that far away from our Sam in character - but they've all been involved in a Stargate Programme, even if they didn't enter the Air Force. This Sam hasn't - and it seems to have resulted in her 'falling by the wayside' as an academic theorist (with a knock-on effect of her losing her self-confidence).

I agree. It seemed pretty clear through the episode that all Geek Sam needs is an injection of self-confidence and she'll be much closer to the original. And in some respects we saw it begin to happen - being the one to think of the way to find the second gate did wonders for her. I get the distinct impression that being out from under the thumb of her boss, will help too.

BTW, did I hear Sam in Egypt say at some point they could 'take back the jumper' ? Isn't puddle jumper the name used by the Atlantis crew? How would Sam know to call it that? Could be I've missed something though, since I haven't been watching Atlantis since several episodes back. In fact, I'm getting a little annoyed at the fact that I seem to be increasingly required to to pick up the nuances of what's happening in Stargate. I want to watch a show because I enjoy it. Not because it's required learning. Makes it seem like homework that way.

Had forgotten about Kinsey. It was amusing that he was pissed that Hayes was President in the original timeline. <g>


Albion