Gemini (811)

[Slainey]

Jack called the chevron guy "Walter". Is this the first time that's happened in real time on the show?

[shelsfc]

Jack called the chevron guy "Walter". Is this the first time that's happened in real time on the show?

IIRC, he called him Walter in Zero Hour too.

[Skydiver]

Jack called the chevron guy "Walter". Is this the first time that's happened in real time on the show?

the first time jack called chevron dude walter was in 2010

[OhForCryinOutLoud]

I liked seeing the interaction of Teal'c & Carter - we haven't gotten too much of that lately. And I loved that he was chomping at the bit to vaporize RepliCarter!
Can I shoot her now? How 'bout now? Can I ? Huh, huh, can I?

[Ali888]

My dismay is that that Carter seems to have disappeared over the past season and a half. Now we have a "desperate" Carter pandering to a "boy" and getting him not only access to the SGC but to the whole history in depth for no other reason than he was stupid and immature by following her to a top secret stakeout and almost got himself killed

Carter did behave stupidly regarding Pete (who is not a 'boy' by any stretch of the imagination). Her stupidity lay in the comments she made to him about her job and her dead boyfriends. Anyone with any curiosity, let alone a police officer, would have wanted to know what was going on. And Petes being a police officer meant he was able to make enquiries. Also, she didn't give him access to the SGC. He was injured and was taken to the base, presumably by the order of the highest ranking military officer at the scene, one Colonel Jack O'Neill. And if you think she gave him info about the Stargate off her own bat then you must have an even lower opinion of her intelligence and recent behaviour than I have.

Ali P

[Skydiver]

for sam to have told pete, she not only got jack's permission, but general hammond's and possibly the joint chiefs' of staff

for whatever reason, high up mucky mucks decided that pete 'needed to know'

[kiwigater]

you know, Madeline, reading your last sentence, "Sam doesn't normally give visitors access to the computers, the alphasite, the SGC", this jumped into my mind: remember in Hathor, Carter was dead set against letting Hathor into the briefing room never mind move around the SGC and she even went pretty far in challenging Hammond about it. Then we all know what happened when Carter, as the leader, and the rest of the women at the SGC formed the posse to stop Hathor, Carter even clocked Hammond to get it done.
<snip>

My comment would be that Jack and Hammond and all the other men on base were under the influence of Hathor's "luuuurrrv drug" at the time. IIRC they were suspicious of Hathor, until she influenced them. Unfortunately, as far as we know, that same cannot be said for Sam's actions in Gemini.

[DarkQuee1]

Carter did behave stupidly regarding Pete (who is not a 'boy' by any stretch of the imagination). Her stupidity lay in the comments she made to him about her job and her dead boyfriends. Anyone with any curiosity, let alone a police officer, would have wanted to know what was going on. And Petes being a police officer meant he was able to make enquiries. Also, she didn't give him access to the SGC. He was injured and was taken to the base, presumably by the order of the highest ranking military officer at the scene, one Colonel Jack O'Neill. And if you think she gave him info about the Stargate off her own bat then you must have an even lower opinion of her intelligence and recent behaviour than I have.Ali P

I think that anyone who behaves as immaturely as Pete did the morning after because a woman he knows is a major in the USAF cannot tell him about her classified job--not to mention his sitting in a public park and talking about her going to other worlds and fighting aliens, where the entire public can overhear it--qualifies as a "boy" in terms of maturity, regardless of his chronological age. His being a police officer makes his behavior worse, since I'm sure that there were times when he couldn't tell his ex-wife (and, yes, I can understand why she divorced him) about some of the things he might have been investigating (or have been undercover on), so he should understand. As do hundreds of thousands of spouses, boyfriends, girlfriend, family in the real world; amazing how they don't think it's a matter of trust that they can't be told about secret stuff.

And Sam promised him she'd tell him--if the poor guy, who ran out into the middle of an op and thus put everyone in danger, only got well--long before she ran it past anyone. Heck, we didn't even see her telling him to hold it down/shut up that day in the park. Yes, I think this entire scenario has done damage to Sam's character.


J.

[Slainey]

the first time jack called chevron dude walter was in 2010

But that wasn't real time.

Thanks I may not have seen Zero Hour. Early season 8 is fuzzy after all this time.

[DarkQuee1]

And Fifth very well might've chosen to be good, but the "betrayal" made him urge for revenge, but no one calls Jack an "idiot" for not having learned by that point to think more in terms of "shades of gray" and not seeing that such a temporary solution was maybe not the best one. That's because this is in-character for Jack, which is indeed a contrast to both Sam and Daniel, that do think in "shades of gray" and been more willing to trust Fifth.

I'm sorry, but I have always thought, and will continue to believe, that Jack made the right decision. It was *not* a case of seeing in B&W, but of seeing the bigger picture. It was a risk that Jack could not take, with 6 billion lives at stake. We knew nothing about Fifth except that he had emotions, was basically a teenager and a crush on Sam--and a whole heck of a lot of destructive power. Combined, this made him an incredibly volatile package. And we'd already seen a lot of that in Reese. Jack could not take the risk that something (rejection by Sam, examination by the NID) would set Fifth off long before Fifth learned--if he ever did--to control negative emotions. It's not a shade of gray issue to avoid putting a nuclear weapon into the hands of a teenager and then bringing him into your house. Yeah, *maybe* he'll be really responsible, but are you going to bet the farm on that?

As for Daniel and Sam: of the two of them, Sam is the more shades of gray, only because she has the perspective both of the academic and of the military officer. However, until this year (since Jack is not there to do Jack things, we have Daniel being a mini-Jack so some things have changed), Daniel was not "shades of gray", he was very much B&W. Only his division was not between trusting and not trusting: it was between his position and Jack's (or anyone holding the opposite position). Daniel never made any effort to see things from Jack's or the military's perspective, and like most academics--who are very focussed on their theory of things to the exclusion of everything else--Daniel tended to see a situation from what he wanted to do, without always seeing the bigger picture around it. But then, Daniel and Sam never had the responsibility for the consequences of taking those positions; that burden was Jack's. So both Sam and Daniel could afford to take a position that did not always reflect the downside of the situation, or the urgency, or the time constraints and so on.

J.

[leifur]

Is anyone else annoyed by some of the stupidity in the gemini episode?

I mean seriously who, in their right mind, would allow a replicator access to the only viable defense against them? Who cares what she said and how persuasive she was toward carter,?

I just can't get over that fact and how such a STUPID decision made all the fuss they had to go through to help the asgaard in previous eps be demolished because of astronomical amounts of stupidity.

Seriously if they would even consider allowing this replicator access to the technology they would need some asgaard backup or something, to monitor subspace transmissions, etc.

I know its probably important to other arcs later in the season but it came at a price (a bit too high imho). I hope i'm not the only one frustrated by this ep.

Thanks,

Leifur

[Sarcazmo The Clown]

Too trusting, right.

Can anyone come up with a good fix for Carter's gulibility? I've tried for thirty whole seconds and failed, but if anyone is less addled and lazy than me...

??

Hopefully she'll get the "once bitten, twice shy" syndrome... Maybe this experience with RepliCarter (btw... that's the best SG1 based pun EVER) will snap her out of her naive-ete and she'll be a little more cautious and a little less apt to follow her suriosity.
Yes, Sam, aligators are interesting animals, but they're also extremely quick and ruthless killers... not to mention patient hunters. (sound like a new baddie we know?)
I think the part at the end when she was examining the human form replicator peices was kind of showing us that she'd at least partly learned. She at least now knows that she'll be able to stop RepliCarter if she allows herself to actually entertain the idea of galactic dominance and how she's go about doing it.

[Sarcazmo The Clown]

I liked seeing the interaction of Teal'c & Carter - we haven't gotten too much of that lately. And I loved that he was chomping at the bit to vaporize RepliCarter!
Can I shoot her now? How 'bout now? Can I ? Huh, huh, can I?

lol...my favorite Teal'c/Carter moment in Gemini:

Teal'c "Col. Carter... may I have a word?"
Said from between clenched teeth to hold back his anger while still at a dead aim for RepliCarter

[binkpmmc]

Ali888 - obviously we disagree at a fundamental level about pete. IMO, any male who exhibits such a phenomenal level of immaturity, irresponsibility, disrespect, deceitfulness, dishonesty and stupidity is not deserving of respect and is, indeed, a "boy" in a most common sense of the word. See Webster's New World Dictionary: BOY - "A Man regarded as immature or callow".

I did not, use that example as a means to reopening the pete debate again, that has been hashed, rehashed and hashed again in the Chimera, Affinity, Against Pete and If Pete's So Hated For Stalking threads (please take a look through those and you will see all of my many and varied reasons for disliking pete, none of which is related in any way to his being an impediment to J/S ship as I am not biased by preconceived likes or dislikes of the J/S ship - I am not a shipper, nor am I an anti-shipper - I just do not care either way if they ever got together.) I simply used it in my previous post to provide an example as to why, IMO, the pete arc, and Carter's acceptance of his phenomenally disrespectful and immature behaviour, along with other things, has damaged Carter and changed her at the fundamental core of the character. My belief though, is that the fundamental changes all began with that one episode that shall, IMO, forever remain a joke in the Stargate SG1 repertoire.

I will, however address a few of your comments that I feel I should at this time:

What part of "I'm not allowed" did he not understand? I agree maybe she should have used the word "confidential" so we could have heard it come from her, but she didn't (more bad writing) and IMO, from the way he harped on it, (I swear if he said deep space radar telemetry one more time in that same incredulous way I would have felt like slapping him myself), and her reactions to him when he did say it, as if to say - "geez give it up already" it seemed to me he had asked many, many times and she was getting sick of answering him, sick of telling him again and again that she couldn't tell him. He reminds me of the puppy dog who won't let go of the slipper . . . Again a sign of his immaturity and lack of respect for Carter.

You said: "And if you think she gave him info about the Stargate off her own bat then you must have an even lower opinion of her intelligence and recent behaviour than I have." My reply: OBVIOUSLY higher ups approved her telling him about the SGC, et. al., Carter is not THAT stupid (and give me a little credit, please. If you had cared to read all of the available threads on this issue you would know I have addressed that issue, as well as others, in detail), however, she "promised" to tell him all about the SGC and her job after he stupidly got shot (through all of his own fault and doing) long before she got any permission to tell him anything at all (thanks for your post on this DarkQuee1). My biggest problem - he never should have been there in the first place and Carter should have ripped him a new one for being there, not promised him the moon, so to speak.) Obviously, (again, give me a little credit, I am not that stupid either) Jack also approved him going to the SGC, still, IMO, does not excuse Carter's stupidity in the whole second half of this show and her stupidity is what led to him getting access at the end of the day, IMO. My goodness, did Hammond and Jack have the Hathor fever when it comes to Carter in this ep, it boggles my mind that Hammond and Jack allowed it just as much as Carter's overall behaviour and acceptance of pete's childish antics boggles my mind (and it also boggles my mind that Jack so easily agreed with her to let RC have access to the Alphasite and the weapon in Gemini. IMO, more examples of Carter's copntinued digression from the strong, intelligent soldier she was for 6 1/2 years.) There was, IMO, absolutely nothing good at all about this ridiculous part of chimera.

Please do not read more into what I briefly said about pete in the previous post than is there. I will not address it further in this thread, anything more and everything else I have to say about pete, in-depth, has been said in the above mentioned threads if you care to read up on it.

[BigRed]

I think that this was an extremely weak episode, and am disturbed at how Carter becoming all of a sudden really dumb is ok with so many people. If this is the best that the writers can do after a long lull without new episodes, maybe it's time to rethink having a season 9.
There are so many threads to be wrapped up that are potentially more interesting than "replicator betrayals" imho. kill these weasels off and let's get something interesting to watch, if that's still possible.
Nox,Furlings,Tollan,finally disposing of Anubis,anything but more Love stories for poor Carter. Action,adventure,that's what I want to see. If I want Love Stories, I'll watch the Soap Channel. Again imho.