Gemini (811)

[kiwigater]

thank you. plus it would be very anticlimatic if she just walked in and they zapped her...

not to mention an absurdly short ep
Actually, THAT would have been unpredicted wouldn't it. RC walks in, they zap her and spend the rest of the ep sitting around reading phone books..... *cough*

[the dancer of spaz]

While on the one hand I'd rather have Daniel than not, i'm also glad he was out of this. And maybe all replicators don't have to be evil, but one created by a replicator who has a grudge against you probably shouldn't be trusted. And, you don't have to necessarily be evil to want to preserve yourself. Lets say RC was telling the truth (although I think that they should have set the odds of that at negative 27) there was still the possibility that when actually faced with her death, RC might have changed her mind, and since she was handed access on a silver platter might decide to change the effects so she wouldn't be harmed. And, it is different from trusting the robots Harlan built. First, they didn't give them access to important technology. Second, they didn't have any reason to think that they are evil. RC is a replicator which means that there's a possibility that she's evil. There's a possibility that she doesn't want to help Earth. And, there's a probability that she doesn't want to die and will do whatever it takes to prevent that...

I do understand where you're going with this, but... well, you already know where I stand on this issue.

[the dancer of spaz]

you know, ive been keeping tabs on this thread and IMO, your overanalyzing Sam here. Lets be real. She is human, she made a mistake, the writers did it purposely.

why? b.c its an easy way to evovle the replicator and replicarter story line into a big powerful doomsday enemy where they can create a whole new, much more involved arc.

simply.

I don't know. I think there are some different angles that can be taken in regards to Sam's character here - especially when we look at the Dark Side of her character, and the fact that she does, indeed, have the ability to be manipulative and power-hungry.

I think that an in-depth analysis can be made of almost every ep, because every single second is there for a reason. The writers did need some kind of plot twist to further the Replicator arc, but they happen to be talented enough to get across some other elements of a character as well.

Look at Avatar: While it was a pretty neat video game ep, it also made some very deep discoveries about Teal'c's character - specifically his own insecurity and fears.

Oh, well... Don't get me started on Avatar.

Basically, I'm saying that I don't think it's not TOO much of an overanalysis.

[the dancer of spaz]

At the risk of starting a discussion NOT about Sam , does no one else think that the replicators would inevitably have found a way to gather the necessary information to become immune to the Ancient weapon independent of the SGC?

ie. while this incident may have hastened things, IMHO, the replicators would have figured out a way to become immune anyway. (not that this excuses what I personally see as an amazing lack of foresight on everyone's parts).

Very good point, KG (as always). I never really thought of that.

[Dani347]

not to mention an absurdly short ep
Actually, THAT would have been unpredicted wouldn't it. RC walks in, they zap her and spend the rest of the ep sitting around reading phone books..... *cough*

How about RC walks in, they try to get all the info they can, they keep her access to (need I say it) extremely limited, she gets access through her own treachery, despite the intelligent and repeated efforts of the intelligent SG1 crew to stop her? I'm sure that there could have been an alternative to what happened and them sitting around doing nothing.

[Taonas]

Great episode!!! AT did a great performance, CJ was normal... Missed have MS in the episode, but we had Thor so it evens out.

RDA actually had some good appearances, does anyone else get the feel that he actually feels like a general now?

Anyway, Replicarter is IMO one of the best adversaries they have yet... (Next to Anubis and Baal )

[the dancer of spaz]

How about RC walks in, they try to get all the info they can, they keep her access to (need I say it) extremely limited, she gets access through her own treachery, despite the intelligent and repeated efforts of the intelligent SG1 crew to stop her? I'm sure that there could have been an alternative to what happened and them sitting around doing nothing.

It probably would have taken too long for them to get through all of the plot.

[Taonas]

I just realized that I'm missing part of the ending to the episode, can any one tell me what happens after

Spoiler:

Replicarter comes into the gate room and they shoot at her, all the way to the end.

[Madeleine]

you know, ive been keeping tabs on this thread and IMO, your overanalyzing Sam here. Lets be real. She is human, she made a mistake,

There are mistakes that I can believe Sam would make - skirting one or two safety protocols she thought redundant in Red Sky for instance - and then there are mistakes that just don't fit.

I would not believe in Sam handing the SCG's iris codes to a goa'uld because they claimed to want to join the tok'ra. I would not believe in Sam handing a working ZPM to the Tollan cos they said "sorry we betrayed you and tried to destroy your planet, now we like the look of those ZPM thingies they's fit nicely into our planet-destroying weap- ...er, new TV set, lend us one would you?"

Do you see where I'm coming from? I don't need to analyse Sam in order to *know* that she'd never do either of those things. I certainly don't need to analyse her to know that she'd never try to bring Reese's souped-up grandchild with full knowledge of SGC working practices back to the SGC.

[Buzz Lightyear]

that's good I just do know some people who can't accept the episode and enjoy what her mistakes will mean. Hey, it makes some good conflicts!

Maybe I'm one of those people.

Normally, I'm not bothered much by stuff that many others would find grating. However, Sam's major screw-up this episode really stood out for me. So much so that I had to rant about it.

But I feel better now for having vented. Posting about it all is strangely cathartic.

[Buzz Lightyear]

At the risk of starting a discussion NOT about Sam , does no one else think that the replicators would inevitably have found a way to gather the necessary information to become immune to the Ancient weapon independent of the SGC?

ie. while this incident may have hastened things, IMHO, the replicators would have figured out a way to become immune anyway. (not that this excuses what I personally see as an amazing lack of foresight on everyone's parts).

I don't think anyone is complaining that the replicators found a way to counter the Ancient disruptor. It's how they did it that some (including me) have problems with.

Since we're talkling about a replicate Carter, whatever happened to the old-fashioned method of having the dupe impersonating the real Sam, therefore gaining access to SGC computers because the base personnel wouldn't be able to tell the difference? Teal'c is suspicious but only Jack can figure it out, but by the time he does, it's too late. This scenario would seem much more plausible than "dumb blond Carter".

[sacme]

Mixed reactions about the show.

I was oh so glad, that the pacing was better and the sense of drama and danger was there. To me, the first half of the season was underwhelming and I never felt that anything was really at risk.

I'm also happy Jack seemed more alive, concerned and alert in this ep than he's been all season. I hope we get to see interaction between him and RepliCarter next time, though-- that could be hot!

AT did a very good job with the double role and evil Sam is cool.

It was obvious to me, though, that RC was playing both sides, so you could see the crosses coming. And why did they even bother shooting RC with regular guns? They're nearly indestructable, we have to formulate a whole new weapon to kill them-- and when that doesn't work we use bullets? They might as well have used water pistols or thrown rocks at her.

But I agree with others here that this ep makes Sam look terrible and Jack look like a bad commander. The truly ridiculous risks she took were mind-blowing. First off, why did they even have to meet with RC face-to-face (besides the fact that it's a tv show)? She could have been a bomb, had a bomb, she could have been Fifth in another form or, simply, she could have been like all the rest of the replis and been a consumer/destroyer. Why not keep her at a distance and talk to her over the MALP. Let the MALP shoot her in the end. Replicators are dangerous and difficult to control-- hello!

Allowing RC to put her hand in Sam's head-- excuse me! That is unforgivable. We want RC to trust us-- huh? RC could have compromised Carter and Teal'c would never have known just by talking to her afterwards. T should have stopped her and he should have told Jack that Sam coudn't be objective and was showing a lack of judgement.

Allowing RC to have total access to our only defense-- what, within hours of meeting her-- crazy.

And, personally, the fact that Sam still berates herself over her treatment of Fifth, means she can never be a good leader. If she can't make the tough decisions, protect her own first (unless an important sacrifice had to be made) and put aside her emotions when needed, the good she could do in command is limited. Carter comes off looking so weak in this ep.

I kept asking myself if Gen. Hammond would have let Sam do everything she did, and the answer kept coming back, 'no'. IMO, Hammond was way more cautious and would have never allowed Sam to keep crossing the line and get them in the jam they're in now. Jack's deference to Sam during the ep and then telling her she did nothing wrong at the end was pap. It is her fault (and his for letting her be so trusting), she did really mess up, and she did let her emotions get in the way and endanger Earth. Of course, she's done a tremendous amount of good in the past, so I'm not saying she should be punished or something, but let's not say nothing happened here. In the end, Jack should have done a better job of protecting Carter from herself. He gave her too long a rope and she hung herself.

I didn't hate the episode, it's definitely one of the better ones this season for many reasons, but I feel like the writers have really had it in for the character of Samantha Carter this year.

[sacme]

I understand your frustration. Based on what I've been reading, it does seem like she was a little too quick to shoot Daniel, and, though I'm a shipper, I'd like to think that RepliCarter would have some strong residual feelings for Daniel and Teal'c that would keep her from annihilating them... To be honest, I think the writers made that so incredibly pronounced to suggest ship to those who are unfamiliar with the ship arc (yes, it's a story arc, and no one can tell me any different - sorry ), but that's just me.

In the world of SG-1, as a team, as a group of friends, and as a family, I would also like to think that Sam would treat all three of the guys equally...
*Shrugs*

RepliCarter, on the other hand, while evil, may have a harder time reconciling strong brotherly feelings of love and the other... kind...

Does that make sense?

Probably not.

I didn't think the vision RC showed Carter necessarily happened. She could have just made it up to get Carter on her side by showing Sam that she was tortured by Fifth, too. But even if it did happen, I don't think you can say it represents how Sam would also act. RC is controlling her completely and feeding her memories as he sees fit. We don't really know how much of RC is Sam and how much is Fifth's creation. They have the same memories, but they are not the same person.

[kiwigater]

I don't think anyone is complaining that the replicators found a way to counter the Ancient disruptor. It's how they did it that some (including me) have problems with.

I agree. I was horrified that they went to the alpha site in the first place. Isn't the idea of the alpha site that it's SECRET, not to mention that reams of classified information about Earth and it's defences is bound to be stored in computers there. I'm merely thinking that Sam didn't create the problem per se, and while RC used her as a means to an end, that end would have been achieved with or without the decidedly naive and foolish actions of the SGC personel.

Since we're talkling about a replicate Carter, whatever happened to the old-fashioned method of having the dupe impersonating the real Sam, therefore gaining access to SGC computers because the base personnel wouldn't be able to tell the difference? Teal'c is suspicious but only Jack can figure it out, but by the time he does, it's too late. This scenario would seem much more plausible than "dumb blond Carter".

Well, Sam did say that they had scanners that would detect replicators (thus preventing them from impersonating base personel), and at a minimum I'm fairly sure they would never let Sam and RC be in a position where RC could impersonate Sam. (not that you would know it from their actions in Gemini )

[sacme]

Originally Posted by keppiezbt
you know, ive been keeping tabs on this thread and IMO, your overanalyzing Sam here. Lets be real. She is human, she made a mistake, the writers did it purposely.

why? b.c its an easy way to evovle the replicator and replicarter story line into a big powerful doomsday enemy where they can create a whole new, much more involved arc.

simply.

when writers bend too much to get to another place, the story and characters can suffer. if the characters are just tools, then an audience won't care about them. if the story has too many plot holes, an audience won't care about the show. writers shouldn't always take the easy route.