Gemini (811)

[the dancer of spaz]

I just don't see why it matters what Sam did before or what Daniel did. How did he get in it? I mean, there's a thread for Pretense if people want to criticize his actions. There are threads for all the other episodes. I mean, I can't stop anyone from bringing past actions up here, but I don't see how that has any bearing on what happened in this episode. And, since for some reason Daniel (who was what? In this episode for a few minutes, once in a dream sequence where he got killed) keeps coming up, like I said, some of the issue is with tptb, through Jack, telling Sam she didn't do anything wrong. IIRC, Jack did question Daniel's judgement in Pretense. He didn't say, "Well, bucko, you're finally free to have feelings for another woman, so your judgement is perfectly fine."

The thing is people are talking about this episode, so of course they're going to criticize Sam's actions for this episode. The fact that Sam did some things before, or that Daniel maybe didn't get enough criticism for another episode doesn't change what Sam did in this episode. Or change that Jack allowed it.

I think bringing up past actions is just fine, because it shows where our priorities are and what we're truly looking at here. If a certain character makes a mistake in an episode - no matter WHAT episode it is - and it turns out not to our liking... that character is at risk of getting maimed. For other characters, if they do the same thing, everything is all fine and dandy. And, even if it isn't fine and dandy, they apparently aren't at risk of getting maimed, because they're just THAT important.

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I think I'm noticing a trend of opinions, both biased and unbiased, and as someone who has NOT seen the episode yet, I'd like to ween the ones which are obviously biased out of my brain before January.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And, on the whole, I can't think of one person in this thread who hasn't brought up an excellent point in their own right. Still... I'm gonna wait and see for myself before I pass any judgment.

[Dani347]

You know, this can be said much more simply than my long rant. If Sam did something wrong she did something wrong and whatever she or anyone else did in other or whether she or anyone else got criticized enough (should we count posts?) doesn't negate it, and she should be called on it. And, if Sam didn't do anything wrong, she didn't and whatever she or anyone else did in other episodes, or whether she or anyone else got praised enough doesn't negate that. And, there are no obviously biased opinions unless someone obviously says they're only criticizing Sam because they don't like her.


And, no one is maiming Sam. People are going out of their way to say that this is one error, which to many of us is out of character because we think Sam is smarter than that. If that's maiming, than exactly what do you call it if someone did say that Sam is ruined beyond repair and was probably that dumb in the first place? Premeditated murder?

[Dani347]

SG-1 thought they were doing the right thing, and that they had to take the risk because it was both possible and PLAUSIBLE for Fifth to become immune to the disruptor. Plain and simple.

How many times has the Goa'uld adapted to Earth's technology in the past? And these are freakin' Replicators, for crying out loud. They're instinctual, destructive bugs who literally feed off of technology. And then you add the fact that they're HUMAN form, and it makes a lot of sense for Fifth to have figured something out. What else COULD they have done? If Sam/Jack/Teal'c had sat back and twiddled their thumbs because they didn't believe RepliCarter, and THEN Earth had been attacked, people (fans) would have been complaining about how it was a bad decision to take NO actions against Fifth at all.

Yeah, possible and plausible for Fifth to be immune. Exact opposite that another replicator would want to help them at the risk of her own life, even with a sob story. And, you're right. These are freakin' replicators for crying out loud, which means that they aren't to be trusted. That includes RC. And, I wouldn't think they were twiddling their thumbs, because I would think that unless they came up with a sensible alternative to trusting RC with, sing it people! the only weapon that can destroy them than the reason they didn't do anything was because there was nothing they could do. Because trusting a replicator with (chorus!) is not a viable option in any sense. Not doing anything would be a risk but it would be a more intelligent risk than (sing out!)

[Chevron_nine]

I haven't had time to read through all the posts, so if I'm repeating anything bear with me...


Personally I thought this was a great ep. I figured the ep could have ended two ways, Replicarter was evil and was working with Fifth, or Replicarter was good and was actually who she said she was, but tricked fifth into believing she was on his side. It turned out to be a good mix of the two.

I didn't have a problem with the "lack" of Daniel. He didn't really have a reason to be in the episode and I figure I'd rather have him out of the ep, then have him standing around for no reason.

I didn't like how Carter trusted Replicarter, it had me feeling uneasy, but even I didn't know for sure she would turn out to be evil. I don't see why everyone is having a problem with Carter trusting Replicarter. It isn't that different than when Robot SG-1 was created by Harlan. SG-1 seemed to trust RoboSG-1 pretty well. There's nothing that says ALL replicators HAVE to be evil. Fifth seemed pretty nice 'til Carter/Jack screwed him over.

To get all you shippers hopes up maybe in the future Replicarter will make a RepliJack. I'm sure there are no Air Force regulations against two alien machine robots getting together

[Dani347]

I

I didn't have a problem with the "lack" of Daniel. He didn't really have a reason to be in the episode and I figure I'd rather have him out of the ep, then have him standing around for no reason.

I didn't like how Carter trusted Replicarter, it had me feeling uneasy, but even I didn't know for sure she would turn out to be evil. I don't see why everyone is having a problem with Carter trusting Replicarter. It isn't that different than when Robot SG-1 was created by Harlan. SG-1 seemed to trust RoboSG-1 pretty well. There's nothing that says ALL replicators HAVE to be evil. Fifth seemed pretty nice 'til Carter/Jack screwed him over.

While on the one hand I'd rather have Daniel than not, i'm also glad he was out of this. And maybe all replicators don't have to be evil, but one created by a replicator who has a grudge against you probably shouldn't be trusted. And, you don't have to necessarily be evil to want to preserve yourself. Lets say RC was telling the truth (although I think that they should have set the odds of that at negative 27) there was still the possibility that when actually faced with her death, RC might have changed her mind, and since she was handed access on a silver platter might decide to change the effects so she wouldn't be harmed. And, it is different from trusting the robots Harlan built. First, they didn't give them access to important technology. Second, they didn't have any reason to think that they are evil. RC is a replicator which means that there's a possibility that she's evil. There's a possibility that she doesn't want to help Earth. And, there's a probability that she doesn't want to die and will do whatever it takes to prevent that. You don't have to be evil to do that. It would have made more sense for RC to knock Sam out and steal the weapon than for Sam to freely give her access to it.

Hey if they want to trust RC, give her a nice suite at the SGC. Send her a complimentary gift basket. Don't, well, you know what.

[Terok]

A good episode, it was fairly predictable that Replicarter was still working with Fifth, but her turning on Fifth to take control of the replicators herself kind of surprised me. It's going to be very interesting to see what happens now that she's in control.

I thought Carter was taken in by Replicarter way to easily. Seemed that Carter was more willing to trust Replicarter after they were linked and was shown what Replicarter had experienced, but surely she should have been more suspicious that she could have been shown anything.

I’m also surprised that they gave Replicarter the gate address to the alpha site in the first place, its usually the case that an SG team meet someone at a neutral location then gate to the SGC or Alpha site once they’ve checked them out, in these circumstances.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

My problem is when you say Daniel did this wrong, so why are you being so mean to Sam?

Just to clarify, Dani, because I am the one who opened this can-O-worms(sorry, sorry, sorry. I never meant to fuel a Stars war) I have not, nor have I ever considered Daniel's actions in defending "Kira" as wrong. His passion and compassion were in character, making them right for Daniel.

I merely used Daniel as a mirror, an example of a person acting in character, and Past&Present was a good one because three character's judgements were involved(Daniel's, Sam's & Janet's).

Peace?

[OfF3nSiV3]

damn, the beggining of this ep was a pleasure to watch! cough carter's body cough*

[shelsfc]

People keeps saying that Sam should have seen it coming but... did you? I didn't. I even knew Replicarter survived and it still didn't occur to me!

Yes! Well...suspected. And when I saw her chatting to Fifth the first thing I thought was 'Don't tell me she's going to betray him too....'

I think I watch too much tv.

[keppiezbt]

you know, ive been keeping tabs on this thread and IMO, your overanalyzing Sam here. Lets be real. She is human, she made a mistake, the writers did it purposely.

why? b.c its an easy way to evovle the replicator and replicarter story line into a big powerful doomsday enemy where they can create a whole new, much more involved arc.

simply.

[.:Lemon:.]

I just watched this episode yesterday and I thought it was probably the best yet from season 8, I really enjoyed it. AT was great in this episode as Replicarter and as Carter herself. There wasn't much Daniel in the episode (Infact only one scene) but I don't think it really made a difference (No offence to Danny fans I still like him!) So yeah, I thought it was really interesting to see Fifth again, and just as I thought the storyline was predictable, they went and changed it Really good ep IMO

[Wass]

I agree with Teal'c and Keppiezbt I didn't see it coming and people have started over analysing Sam. Sam was naive to think the replicarter had feelings just her therefore she was different from the rest of replicators.

[kiwigater]

At the risk of starting a discussion NOT about Sam , does no one else think that the replicators would inevitably have found a way to gather the necessary information to become immune to the Ancient weapon independent of the SGC?

ie. while this incident may have hastened things, IMHO, the replicators would have figured out a way to become immune anyway. (not that this excuses what I personally see as an amazing lack of foresight on everyone's parts).

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Okay, I just rewatched Gemini(Ow! It's even better the second time around!)

First time I, too, thought that Rep Carter dispatched of Daniel a little too easily, but now I think that manipulative RC was trying to show that her "memories" of SG-1 came to her only during that shoot-em-up scene. At first she seemed quite prepared to shoot Jack. I think the later (feigned) look of remorse for her actions included Real Carter's feelings for Daniel - oh, and for Siler and that other guy.

I really like how RC kept Sam off-balance by tweaking her guilt complex over Fifth; every time Sam seemed about to doubt RC, she'd subtly remind her of Sam's betrayal. And her "wanting" to die just must've twisted the knife even more in Sam's conscious. I'd imagine that sort of manipulation would shake up even the most balanced thinkers.

As for fault, well, Teal'c was there, Jack was kept apprised, and they all decided that the benefits might outweigh the risks. I am surprised that Jack and Thor didn't have an untampered satalite in reserve for just such a situation, though - kind of like how Jack played his hidden ace in Zero Hour.

[keppiezbt]

I agree with Teal'c and Keppiezbt I didn't see it coming and people have started over analysing Sam. Sam was naive to think the replicarter had feelings just her therefore she was different from the rest of replicators.

thank you. plus it would be very anticlimatic if she just walked in and they zapped her...