Between Two Fires (509)

[angelfire east]

I thought it would have been quite cute for Narim to have spent the whole journey to his flat cringing inside because he hasn't had time to change the voice and now Sam's going to hear it - how embarrassing is that?

That was cut, how embarrassing I wish Jack had hear that when he walked in the house. He would have been WTH?!? Thought that might have given away )somehow) that they had his clip with them. Still I think it would have been a huge laugh

Speaking of a huge laugh, Jack was so funny in this episode THe hand holding thing with Teal'c. Teal'c didn't have any problem with it, he has none of those silly tatoo's humans have. Jack so funny and weird, it's just Teal'c. No one was around... men sometimes honsety

I wonder if Sam would have ever made a go of it with Narim. Mostly not but I'm still sorry he's dead.

[Chaka's_Mum]

I wonder if Sam would have ever made a go of it with Narim. Mostly not but I'm still sorry he's dead.

I know what you mean - it would have been interesting to see how they got on given how differently they viewed their separate worlds. She certainly liked him, but I think there's a fairly wide consensus view that she didn't feel anything stronger than a warm fondness. Shame really. He was quite sweet - a sort of combination of the Tollan superiority complex and an almost childlike innocence that was quite appealing.

Except for the fact that it did come across as somewhat condescending at times - probably not intentionally, but it would have got on my wick for definite. I suspect it would have done for Sam, too, in the end.

[angelfire east]

I know what you mean - it would have been interesting to see how they got on given how differently they viewed their separate worlds. She certainly liked him, but I think there's a fairly wide consensus view that she didn't feel anything stronger than a warm fondness. Shame really. He was quite sweet - a sort of combination of the Tollan superiority complex and an almost childlike innocence that was quite appealing.

Except for the fact that it did come across as somewhat condescending at times - probably not intentionally, but it would have got on my wick for definite. I suspect it would have done for Sam, too, in the end.

Yes it would have. I agree I don't think she really felt anything stronger then warm fondness for him but it's always interseting to wonder. I agree I think it would have as well. It does with the asgrad(sp). <-sorry I can't spell

[Chaka's_Mum]

Yes it would have. I agree I don't think she really felt anything stronger then warm fondness for him but it's always interseting to wonder,

Oh yes - it certainly is!

I think the thing I particularly like about this episode is the 'cautionary tale' embedded in it: Don't get too wedded to the idea of superiority. Just because you have better toys than anyone else right now doesn't mean that you always will, or that they will serve your needs in every situation (Apophis made that mistake when he tried it on with Earth!). Resting on your laurels just gives everyone else more time to catch up.

Even by sneaky means a la Goa'uld...

[bcfc]

thats why the tollan were wiped out because of sheer arogance, in the end where did their powerfull weapons get them

The same thing goes for the Ancients the Wraith proved that more numbers will win over Advanced Tech.

None of them showed why we have been so successfull which was that we were so resourcefull.

[Chaka's_Mum]

Absolutely!

That's the other consequence of being too technical - you lose your self-reliance! Being able to fall back on your own resources when (yes, when, not if) the techno goodies fail you.

All we had when Apophis came knocking was a supply of Nukes - and they proved basically useless in the face of superior technology. In the end it was four stowaways improvising with a bundle of C4 that saved the day. Says it all about superior technology, really. Laptops can't light your campfire, can they?

[Cascade]

Ironic really that the Tollan's downfall was agreeing to make their technology available to another race, something that they were dead set against, but ultimately, I guess they didn't really have a choice.

This episode strongly gives me the impression that the Tollan have been wiped out (I don't know at this point if they come back or not?) - I was quite surprised. Good episode.

[garhkal]

One thing that has bugged me, is if the 'bombs' could phase shift through anything, why did they not use them on the Hataks that came?

[Seperated@Birth?]

My question is now that we have our own ships, why haven't we went to Tollana to see what happened and if there are any survivors. At the very least we should look around for any tech that may be left.

IMHO there should be an episode that addresses the Tollan. Maybe they could tie it in somehow with the accountants (I mean Aschen).

[garhkal]

I agree, that is something that should have been addressed once we had our own ships, it is imo like a lot of other stuff in that it seems to have falen to the way side..

[Ilana]

It's been such a long running series, that I'm afraid loose ends are inevitable.

[VSS]

What a relief!

Spoiler:

Schrodinger's alive and well!

[Jumper_One]

What a relief!

Spoiler:

Schrodinger's alive and well!

[PrioroftheOri]

i sort of felt bad for the tollan, but not really. they never shared any tech with us even when we saved their planet like twice, and then we return their stolen tech, and still no thanks.

[Chaka's_Mum]

Well, it has to be said that they'd tried it once before and got their fingers burned big time - having been indirectly responsible for the destruction of an entire race, they weren't about to do it again with us.

That, in itself, is a laudable ideal - but the manner in which they did it, that whole condescending 'lesser races' thing, was what really took it from 'sensible precaution' to 'lofty snobbery'. What probably didn't help our case, of course, was the fact that what we wanted from them was their weapons technology, rather than intelligent computers that welcome you home when you come in through the door (especially using the voice of an unrequited crush which you haven't had time to switch off before said unrequited crush visits you).

It was a prickly relationship, precisely because of that whole 'we're superior to you' attitude - but in the end the Tollan proved that no amount of superior technology is going to help you if your development stagnates as a result of it. Their arrogance was their vulnerability, and Tanith (with a heap of help from his not-identified-yet boss) took full advantage. It's just unfortunate that the Tollan legacy is nothing more than an object lesson in the consequences of abdicating yourself from self-reliance. We should take note.