Between Two Fires (509)

[IcyNeko]

Tanith didn't have Anubis's supership. Anubis didn't have the eye of ra to do that kinda shockwave.

Also... all Lya had to do was hide the stargate and a portion of the populace like she did before. Lya can also open a gate wihtout a DVD, so she can dial out petty quickly.

[captain jake]

I suppose that is true, but they did not do that so o well.

[Chaka's_Mum]

I think people might be reading a bit too much into Lya's actions in 'Pretense' here. The circumstances were different - the Tollan were more than capable of seeing Zipacna off, as long as they had the capability to do so, and all Lya did was level the playing field. That alone was a very tight squeak for her pacifist ethics.

It's different this time. The Tollan have allowed themselves to believe themselves beyond the reach of the Goa'uld for far too long and are now paying the consequences. They have to accept the responsibility for their current helplessness in assuming that the Goa'uld would never achieve a sufficient level of technological skill to equal the Tollan defence grid. They were wrong - and it's entirely their own fault.

This being the case, they have no right whatsoever to expect the Nox to come and bail them out. Besides, assuming they had the barefaced cheek to do so, the chances are that any communications squealing Nox-wards would be picked up and result in a major bombardment from orbit.

If they did try it - all they'd be doing is asking the Nox to take sides in what would rapidly become a major scrap between two opposing forces. No matter how neutral an evacuation would appear to us, the symbolism of the Red Cross has no meaning to the Goa'uld, and they've never heard of the relevant Geneva Conventions relating to it. Intervention by the Nox would be viewed as an act of war and dealt with accordingly. The fact that the Goa'uld certainly wouldn't do the Nox any harm has no bearing on that. It would still mean that the Nox have participated in the generation/escalation of conflict.

[Mattathias2.0]

Tanith didn't have Anubis's supership. Anubis didn't have the eye of ra to do that kinda shockwave.

Also... all Lya had to do was hide the stargate and a portion of the populace like she did before. Lya can also open a gate wihtout a DVD, so she can dial out petty quickly.

DVD?

Mattathias

[IcyNeko]

Chaka's Mum presents some great points. Green for you.

However, might I add that the alliance of four races was opposed against the Goa'uld? So helping the Tollans against a declared enemy shouldn't be taking sides... since the side was already taken.

DHD.

[captain jake]

That is tue but what about a possibility of new management.

[Chaka's_Mum]

Chaka's Mum presents some great points. Green for you.

Why, thank you!

However, might I add that the alliance of four races was opposed against the Goa'uld? So helping the Tollans against a declared enemy shouldn't be taking sides... since the side was already taken.

DHD.

I see where your argument is coming from , but that would mean that an agreement reached some 10 millennia ago is still in force despite there no longer being an Alliance to maintain it. The Asgard clearly feel some obligation to mitigate the worst excesses of Goa'uld oppression - the Protected Planets Treaty being evidence of that. However, the Nox keep themselves entirely to themselves - why would they do this if they were under an agreement to oppose the Goa'uld? The only conclusion we can reach on the basis of this evidence is that (assuming there was one in the first place) the agreement to actively oppose the Goa'uld dissolved with the Alliance.

To be honest, I still reckon the Nox thing is a bit of a red herring.

what about a possibility of new management

That's also pretty plausible - perhaps at one time the Nox were more 'warlike', and willing to sign up to an agreement; only to discard it later on as their ethical standpoint changed and the Alliance broke up. I'd go with that as an alternative explanation.

[IcyNeko]

Great points, again.

[Pharaoh Atem]

stupid tollan our best allies proabaly and there get there butts wiped out

[Chaka's_Mum]

Allies they may be - but I think I'd have issues with the number of times they use the word 'inferior' when talking about the Tauri!

[captain jake]

Will they ever be back?

I realy doubt it.

[Chaka's_Mum]

Same here. There's no real need to revisit the Tollan. Even if we assume that some people survived, I don't imagine they'll be in any fit state to go up against anyone again any time soon. Chances are that any refugees are now settled in obscurity somewhere and trying to figure out how to light a fire without all that superior technology stuff.

[desert fox]

In my opinion the problem with Tollan was ; they were both arrogant and over-confident. Plus they were isolanists. They didn't seem natural explorers like Tau'ri. So they rellied their technology , didn't update it with new concepts they might get by using gate exploration. So they have been wiped out.

[Chaka's_Mum]

So true. Their perceived superiority and snobbish avoidance of any race considered 'inferior' (apart from us - and then only because we saved their smug little butts from Zipacna, I'll wager) was always going to cause them to stagnate as a society. Just look at all that grey clothing, for example.

Same goes for the technology. Sooner or later someone was going to work out how to circumvent their defence grid - but they just seemed to assume that it wasn't possible that an enemy ever would. Of course, once we discover who is behind Tanith's little incursion, the reason why he was able to do it becomes clear (but we don't find out in this episode so I won't give the game away to anyone who doesn't know).

[meredithchandler73]

I know that the Tollan were rather arrogant, but that was okay with me. I liked the different ways the show portrayed advanced races - the Tollan, the Nox and the Asgard. And so far we've seen that the Tollan and the Asgard are not invincible. The Goa'uld have shields against the Tollan ion cannons. And the Replicators are a serious threat to the Asgard as well as everyone else.

I didn't think there was any kind of future for Sam and Narim, but I was sorry to see Narim go. I found his crush on Sam to be very cute. And the fact that he has her voice programmed in his house...awwww.