The Other Side (402)

[Who Knows]

9:32. Now go spoil it for me

[Falcon Horus]

9:32. Now go spoil it for me

Great way to put the pressure on. I clocked in at 06:20.

[jelgate]

I think that is a matter of being the audience of an outsider perspective. It's easy the call the SGC's actions immoral but the Eudorians were all offering us technology to defeat the Goa'uld. It would be like living in WWII and being an American and having a friend who says that we have a solution to defeat Japan. It would be hard to say no. Morals are good and important but history shows that we factor survival over morals. That said, obviously we we're in the wrong but as the saying goes about hindsight. This is also why I like controversy episodes. Morals be practicality are always interesting as both Jack and Daniel have valid points. In the end Daniel is right obviously since the Eurondoans are genocidal Nazis. At the same token the rest of SG1's point is very valid if not for the high price. One of my favorites and a rare excellent. Perfect score on the quiz. Haven't quite got to the puzzle but I'm almost there

[Falcon Horus]

Your view reminds me of Sunday's episode of Madam Secretary where they touch upon the LGBTQ round ups Chechenya held (and probably still holds) and where in the end military assets trumped the rights of a group of persucated LGBTQ's. The greater good for the US was keeping a valued ally, in this case Turkey, close and keeping it from falling in with Russia, at the cost of a group of people who had been tortured and were on the run.

Morals fly out of the window on more occasions. Doesn't make it any less though.

[jelgate]

If memory serves, McCord called Jay and Kat out at the end of losing perspective at the big picture of the thousands lost because of their actions.

[Falcon Horus]

If memory serves, McCord called Jay and Kat out at the end of losing perspective at the big picture of the thousands lost because of their actions.

That too, but it did come back down to patching things up with the ally... above the "needs" of the thousands.

The general sentiment was the few vs the many -- at least, that's how I felt that ending go.

[jelgate]

Frell and frack. 6 minutes and 27 seconds

[Xaeden]

Yes, he killed someone with an INTERCEPTOR, not a bomber, not a long-range strike aircraft, but an interceptor used to shoot down enemy bombers!

You can repeatedly say that they didn't have offensive capabilities and capitalize the word "interceptor" all you want, but that does not change that what you're saying contradicts what Alar said. As the episode progressed, it was revealed that he wanted heavy water, not just to power their defensive capabilities, but to launch an offensive that would allow them to win:

ALAR

(to O'Neill)
It is customary among our people to formalize new alliances such as ours. In exchange for all our knowledge, technology, medicines, Earth will provide us with however much heavy water as we require to end this war once and for all.

It is fair to say that we don't know how they would have done this, but that Alar thought they could win the war suggests that he probably had the means to do more than defend but had been unable to devote resources to anything but defense while their field lacked sufficient power to protect against bombs. Whether that's because the fighters can also act as bombers (with or without modifications) or if they have production capacities that they had been using to continually build fighters which could instead be put toward building bombers or if they even need bombers (if the enemy is not housed underground and instead survive in air tight surface buildings, the fighters could be used to expose them to the toxic air) we do not know.

[BethHG]

14/15. 9:30

It took O'Neill long enough to catch on... just sayin'.

Great episode!

[AleksisMi]

this is a episode i found boring sometimes and fun and amazing at other times, i was unimpressed with the drones, but the shields and fusion energy sounded amazing plus the blasters on the drones, but i didnt particularly care for hte drones... uhhmm...

as for the techs, the "breeders" are assumed to be good... but they send living breething people on suicidal bombing runs when thier world seems to have radio control for drones and weapons, the question is.... why do we assume the breeders are any less evil? what if the cloners are more or less like the dark asgard, morals are irrelevent to them in many ways because of thier focus on strange things, where as the breeders are more like the regular asgard... but we assume one is less evil then the other... but they are all one faction on one world, what if the cloners were simply a caste of people on that world, a caste of genetic engineers, who share the ideals more or less of the others, but the others look down on them because of the cloning?

what if the breeders and cloners are both ideologically similar enough and both plan on conquering other worlds, what if the cloners simply have priorities that are different, and didnt bother to mention the actual real evils of the breeders caus the cloners simply are so puretanical they hate physical contact or sex? they could just be autistic to borrow the phrase.... and they may simply be the lesser evil in the long run, for all we know the breeders are the true evil and launched a armada after words useing thier technology and gained technology raided from the cloners, it could be they are even the true power behind the lucian alliance, and they love sex and physical contact and use that as a means of influence and control over others, valueing prostitution and passion over other things, just think about it.... maybe thats why we never saw thier world once we had the daedelus and other x303/x304s, just imagine going there and running into a orbital ship yard and literal fascists who arent rascist but intent on rulling the galaxy, and we set it up to happen... sort of wouldnt be surprising if they turned out to be the power behind the ruling alliance, they may even have had gouuld tech and a broken hatak or shippyard all along they were trying to get repaired and the cloners simply didnt want them leaving the planet because they were so paranoid about physical contact and didnt want even a chance of intimacy or passion in thier cold sciencey logic, basically all im saying is... did we never see that world for a reason?

on a sidenote i thought it was a shame all that technology was lost in the chrystal, imagine saving it, bringing back those people, or just invading the bunker, nonviolent take over, then keep the shields powered but message the breeders and talk to them and try to reach accords for accomadating meeting them, show them the stargate bring their leaders to earth, hopefully they havent already murdered everyone expecting a cloner trap, and show them earths history and records and seek a peaceful alliance with them, and give them a copy of all the information, then you have to reach an accord as far as punishment for hte cloners, that doesnt involve geneciding them either,

and boom, you have a fair and a very powerful allie

assuming its not just one big country of evil fascists on all sides argueing about how they should be evil fascists.... seriously though i wouldnt be surprised if the breader faction turned out to be evil fascists bent on galactic domination, it happens on some planets, greed corruption evil fascist dictatorships, the lucian alliance for one, for another example click below etc

https://www.gateworld.net/wiki/Orlin

https://www.hulu.com/watch/80869

[Falcon Horus]

@Aleks -- can I call you Aleks?

It's established, I believe, in the episode that the Cloners started the war by poluting the ground above, in order to kill or drive the Breeders away. That requires knowledge on technology so maybe they are further ahead with drones than the others are.

[BethHG]

Were they cloners? I thought they did selective breeding like the Aryans of the Third Reich.

[Seaboe Muffinchucker]

I don't think they would have considered Breeders a derogatory term--which, IMO, they clearly did--if they had a breeding program of their own.

Seaboe

[BethHG]

I don't think they would have considered Breeders a derogatory term--which, IMO, they clearly did--if they had a breeding program of their own.

Seaboe

Hmm.... probably true

[AleksisMi]

i agree they first struck, but im saying we are assuming they are the greater evil, when the only thing we know about the others is that they have a fondness for mating to have offspring, we assume they have offspring, they could be cloners too though, and just have sex for fun... it really could be several factions that are all sharing the same core ideals about everything except may on a few subjects like whether or not they should have sex

i still stand by the argument the breeders could be the big bad of thier galaxy, leading the lucian alliance with thier gathered technology and blood thirsty nature for all we know, they may even have a secrete underground gouuld ship yards and they could be the ones that helped the rest of the humans understand how to use gouuld technology in the lucian alliance since the jaffa would presumably not share such great understanding or power with them, it was jaffa who teached the earth people how to use it as well as the tokra helping the humans to learn such technology and samantha carters memories of jolenar who was a tokra

this is hilariously comparable to the cloners perspective on physical conducts i think

notice the drone flight style helmuts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k80UQWWUIYs

http://www.criticalcommons.org/Membe...-cybersex/view

these are both the same clip, the second talks more about hte crazy social laws and how insane thier government is at this point, however i would argue the breeders and cloners may share the same type of world view in everything else including thier poitential towards being bent on world conquest etc