Shades of Grey (318)

[fair_nymph]

First things first: can anyone explain or guess at the meaning of the title for this episode?. I'm thinking along the lines of 'shades of grey' = shades of morality or something like that but I'd love to hear some other opinions.

I loved this ep. Best Jack episode so far -- RDA impressed me. I was totally confused, thinking he had gone nuts -- the whole fake-out was a complete surprise to me.

I hate Maybourne, which I gather we are supposed to, and yes his teeth (and his bulging eyes) annoy the hell out of me. I do think it was a bit odd that he wasn't more distrusting of Jack considering how rude Jack has been to him and how obvious it is that he hates Maybourne's guts. Perhaps Maybourne is just meant to be a bit of an idiot.

It was interesting seeing Sam's reaction to Jack's 'new personality', especially in the wake of 'A Hundred Days'. She really seemed truly disappointed and horrified about Jack's theft and ensuing behaviour. Shippiness galore. And then the look of relief and complete restored faith on her face when she finds out it's all a foil. This ep made me realize how Sam's affection for Jack is based to some degree on a hero-like worship of him. She really looks up to him tremendously, which is interesting considering how she is much more intellectually brilliant than he is. Why do we brainy girls always go for the smart alec risk-taking jocks?

[Shep'sSocks]

Because they're cute?

[SmartFox]

First things first: can anyone explain or guess at the meaning of the title for this episode?. I'm thinking along the lines of 'shades of grey' = shades of morality or something like that but I'd love to hear some other opinions.

Thats what i thought when i saw it. Shades of Grey as in what is right and what is wrong or is it just one big mix.

[Sha're]

I was quite upset for Daniel in the scene in Jack's house. For all the tension there has been between them - Daniel has obviously always had faith that Jack is inherantly a good person who makes the right decisions in the end.
At the end of the episode - Jack obviously feels guilty about that. I was quite impressed by Daniel's comeback about the short straw!

RDA is impressive in this ep - like a few others - I was thrown the first time I watched this. Very good twist!

[Redwall]

On the rerun of this today, anyone else notice the Asgard antigrav device almost looks like it has a ZPM? I assume it's just coincidence, but it's interesting nonetheless.

[Chaka's_Mum]

RDA is impressive in this ep - like a few others - I was thrown the first time I watched this. Very good twist!

I know what you mean. We all know that Jack is regularly irritated by the Tollan refusal to share technology, particularly given the smug, superior manner in which they put their refusals ('inferior races' indeed!). But to turn and suddenly yank some interesting doohickey out of the wall like that made me almost slurp my tea down my front in surprise. This is a side of Jack O'Neill we've not seen before!

Mind you, I did spend a fair bit of time as the episode progressed thinking that he had set himself up to go undercover. Even though there was an air of plausibility to Jack's sudden refusal to accept any more of that damned Tollan superiority, the idea that he could really do something so utterly wrong rankled like hell. He's too much of a hero to do something like that! He is! He is!

It was nice, though, to see everybody's favourite Smug Git back again. I imagine, given the scope of the NID for snooping, that Maybourne was aware of Jack's frustration with 'advanced' races being all superior when it comes to technology. The thought that Jack has finally had enough and decided to 'go rogue' (as it were) would be just too tempting. After all, Jack is a Black Ops expert, he's been here, there and everywhere through the gate. Who better to lead the 'techno-nicking' team?

I know that some people were peeved at the sudden 'unmasking' of Makepeace like that. I, on the other hand, really appreciated that TPTB had gone to all the trouble of introducing him and building him up as a highly respected Officer within the SGC, rather than suddenly selecting a hitherto anonymous Airman or Marine and plucking them briefly from Extra-dom for that purpose.

Yes, Makepeace is a highly valued and respected member of the SGC, yes he's an excellent soldier - and a hero who has put his own life on the line to save SG1. But that's what the SGC pays him to do. By leading an SG team, he's perfectly placed to do his 'naughty stuff' without fear of raising suspicion from a Team leader, and he's probably been doing it from the word go. After all, he's a hero - who would've suspected him? He's too much of a hero to do something like that! He is! He is! Oh. He isn't.

[QuiGonJohn]

I liked this episode. For much of it I was thinking, what the heck is going on with Jack.

Good interplay with Jack having to decieve his friends, and their reactions.

[Mr Prophet]

I know that some people were peeved at the sudden 'unmasking' of Makepeace like that. I, on the other hand, really appreciated that TPTB had gone to all the trouble of introducing him and building him up as a highly respected Officer within the SGC, rather than suddenly selecting a hitherto anonymous Airman or Marine and plucking them briefly from Extra-dom for that purpose.

Actually, they didn't. They just picked a character who had been built up before, and as a heroic member of the team. It's the actor I feel sorry for.

"Hey, guy! We need you to do another episode."
"Great."
"And you're a *******."
"Erm..."

[QuiGonJohn]

I posted a similar post in the NEW GROUND thread, but so far it doesn't look like it's been seen. So I thought I would post it here, especially since in this thread, people have been discussing this issue.

Many times I have seen the discussion about what can and cannot be done from the arriving end of a wormhole, (incoming wormhole). Some people have said that you cannot put any part of your body into it, from outside the event horizon, or you would lose said part. Such as people have said that Jack "had to not take his hand out as he rematerialized". But in NEW GROUND, they seem to show this is not true. When the gate first activates, Nyan puts his hand in, says it doesn't feel like water, then takes his hand out. Perfectly fine.

[zarboki]

I posted a similar post in the NEW GROUND thread, but so far it doesn't look like it's been seen. So I thought I would post it here, especially since in this thread, people have been discussing this issue.

Many times I have seen the discussion about what can and cannot be done from the arriving end of a wormhole, (incoming wormhole). Some people have said that you cannot put any part of your body into it, from outside the event horizon, or you would lose said part. Such as people have said that Jack "had to not take his hand out as he rematerialized". But in NEW GROUND, they seem to show this is not true. When the gate first activates, Nyan puts his hand in, says it doesn't feel like water, then takes his hand out. Perfectly fine.

This is something I was also thinking about. It is quite clear that Jack would have gone completely through as he was running. Also in 38 Minutes (SGA) it clearly talks about the stargate sending matter through in discrete units (it waits for the whole item to pass through the event horizon before starting the matter stream. There also seems to be some sort of safeguard to prevent the gates being shut down whilst matter is in transit. This helps explain why they close the iris before the wormhole as people/wraith darts etc are hot on their heels.
So what happens to your hand or anything else that goes through the stargate "backwards"? The MALP in One Hundred Days was destroyed when it fell completely through. However as has been pointed out there are several cases of people putting their hands through. Jack talks about using it to keep the door open but nothing seemed to stop Jack shutting down the gate in The Enemy Within whilst Teal'c held Kawalsky's head in the gate - admittedly it was an outgoing wormhole.
I am sure this must have been covered somewhere else but this thread seemed a likely source.

[Matt G]

The Gate was manually shut down in 'The Enemy Within'. The SGC could theoretically have done the same in Shades of Grey but they had no reason to do so(and a lot of reasons not to do so).

[zarboki]

The Gate was manually shut down in 'The Enemy Within'. The SGC could theoretically have done the same in Shades of Grey but they had no reason to do so(and a lot of reasons not to do so).

Clearly the point I was trying to make is what was stopping the rogue team from shutting down the gate and dialing out elsewhere?. There was a time constraint I know, the Asgard ship - Thor I assume - was in very close proximity and redialling would have taken time.
It just seems a little risky for Jack to leave his hand in the gate if nothing was stopping it from being shut down manually.

[Beatrice Otter]

Clearly the point I was trying to make is what was stopping the rogue team from shutting down the gate and dialing out elsewhere?. There was a time constraint I know, the Asgard ship - Thor I assume - was in very close proximity and redialling would have taken time.
It just seems a little risky for Jack to leave his hand in the gate if nothing was stopping it from being shut down manually.

Yes, but the SGC gate is run by the dialling computer, not a DHD. And the DHD has a lot of safety features built in that the dialling computer simply doesn't have; we see this several times over the course of the series. Maybe you can't shut it down with matter in the wormhole with a DHD until the 38 minute window has passed.

[Abydosian]

Interesting episode - nice sense of misdirection. It was hard to tell, although I wouldn't have thought Jack would become like that at the start, it just didn't fit his character, but with TV, you never know. Characters can undergo massive changes and they hope the viewers don't notice

Also the reactions from the other characters in the know was good, and the episode was pretty believable.

A shame about Maybourne suddenly being a "jerk" again after being good in the previous episode of his - Foothold. It seemed a strange change.

Not sure how the Tollan's could have been involved - could people from the rogue group got onto their planet undetected? Why else would they be in on it?

One nitpick - at the start, when they are at the Weapon disabler thing, T'ealc adds 'And the goa'uld technology' as to what it disabled. But it didn't - in the previous Tollan episode (the name alludes me right now) - the Communication ball worked right from the hall.

Nice idea of an offworld base - seems hypocrtical they could have one but not the SGC. Also a shame about Makepeace being the one - wouldn't have thought it fitted his character. He didn't really seem the kind, although I suppose it fits with his idea of 'getting the job done'.

Good ethical discussion too - protect the earth and steal (or "borrow") or possibly let the Earth fall but keep to morals? I think it's summed up nicely at the end "But we do need them"

I also didn't understand the "holding the door open" thing - Jack went through, it was an outgoing wormhole, they were sending it, they had the DHD. Surely they could deactivate the wormhole from their end and dial somewhere else?

Overall, an interesting episode and nice to see some ties wrapped up - would have been nice to have a bit more of a buildup (some of the accusations Hammond mentions, and some sights or mentions of the rogue team?)

[Chaka's_Mum]

A shame about Maybourne suddenly being a "jerk" again after being good in the previous episode of his - Foothold. It seemed a strange change.

Not to me - Maybourne is just reverting to his main role, which is co-ordinating the operational minutiae of the Rogue NID Techno-nickers. Until this point, we didn't know how dodgy he was (only that he was dodgy), and Foothold was simply a matter of Maybourne doing the day job for a bit. It's worth remembering that he was more or less pitched into it by Sam when she turned to him as the only person in Washington she could think of that both knew about the Stargate Programme and wasn't likely to have been compromised yet. The fact that he was on the 'good' side was merely incidental. He's an Airforce Officer, to do anything else would have been dereliction of duty.

Not sure how the Tollan's could have been involved - could people from the rogue group got onto their planet undetected? Why else would they be in on it?

I expect so - the Tollans are very comfy with their extensive security grid so they're not exactly expecting to deal with sneaky commando infiltration, and we're looking at people with at least some black-ops skills. It's unlikely that the Tollan gate is particularly heavily guarded, so they might well have been able to sneak in and pinch stuff on the quiet. Given that the Techno-nickers aren't dialling in from a Goa'uld world, it's perhaps less likely that the Tollan security systems would be alerted by their visits.

Nice idea of an offworld base - seems hypocrtical they could have one but not the SGC. Also a shame about Makepeace being the one - wouldn't have thought it fitted his character. He didn't really seem the kind, although I suppose it fits with his idea of 'getting the job done'.

I don't see why not - they need somewhere to store their loot (and back-engineer the bigger stuff) that's not going to arouse attention and won't be tied too obviously to Earth. Don't forget that the SGC have the Alpha Site, though.

I feel that Makepeace was the ideal choice myself - for the reasons I outlined in my previous post. It really did need to be someone of that level and calibre. Certainly, while 'Forging alliances and sharing technology with alien races' sounds mutually exclusive to 'knocking off technology from alien races' on paper, to someone with a strong patriotic bent (like Makepeace seems to have) they'd actually be quite comfortable bedfellows - after all, he's serving his country and planet by protecting it at any cost. Even if it's by pissing off all the Tauri's galactic allies by pinching stuff off them.

Good ethical discussion too - protect the earth and steal (or "borrow") or possibly let the Earth fall but keep to morals? I think it's summed up nicely at the end "But we do need them"

That's true. Both arguments have their pros and cons - though I think the short-termism of Techno-nicking probably has far more cons than pros in the long run. Trouble is, when you've got the Goa'uld eyeing you up as a possible threat, which will save you from them quicker if they decide to come knocking? A toughie indeed - one of those occasions which would prove that hindsight is 20/20.

I also didn't understand the "holding the door open" thing - Jack went through, it was an outgoing wormhole, they were sending it, they had the DHD. Surely they could deactivate the wormhole from their end and dial somewhere else?

I'd go with Beatrice on that one. The DHD is far more sophisticated than the SGC Dialling computer, and has who-knows-how-many failsafes and safety protocols to protect a traveller's molecular integrity. They didn't disengage the wormhole and re-dial elsewhere simply because the DHD wouldn't allow them to do so while there was still matter in transit.

Overall, an interesting episode and nice to see some ties wrapped up - would have been nice to have a bit more of a buildup (some of the accusations Hammond mentions, and some sights or mentions of the rogue team?)

I think it would have been a bit difficult to factor the Techno-nickers into other episodes (though some early techno-nicking was revealed in 'Touchstone') without needing a bit more exposition within those episodes. Though, given how well buried the scam was, I suspect that Hammond wanted to keep the complaints and irritated rumblings as quiet as possible to prevent the Techno-nickers from figuring out someone with the clout to actually investigate their activities was aware of them. Sometimes you've got to give them the rope they need to hang 'emselves.