Serpent's Song (218)

[Sparky She-Demon]

Jack isn't a big fan of the Tok'ra at all. I doubt he really sees Lantash much differently than any of the others, especially at the time of this episode.

That's probably not the only reason Jack doesn't care for those two!

[Falcon Horus]

That depends entirely on the person watching.

Canon wise he's no fan of the Tok'ra and I can't fault him for that either.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Even if I were still a shipper, I'd have to say that really didn't see anything in this phase of the series that pointed to any real romantic feelings between Jack and Sam. Anything I'd have ever taken as a hint of that came later in the series. It really bugs me when people take stuff from later seasons and try to project it backward in time to the first couple of seasons: "Oh, it was always there!" No, not really, it wasn't. Even if it did develop later on (which is itself open to debate, and please note that at one time I was in the 'shipper camp myself so I've actually argued both sides at different points in my own time as a fan) it wasn't there then.

[Falcon Horus]

... and please note that at one time I was in the 'shipper camp myself so I've actually argued both sides at different points in my own time as a fan...

Must have been interesting times.

[Sparky She-Demon]

That depends entirely on the person watching.

Canon wise he's no fan of the Tok'ra and I can't fault him for that either.

Right now, he's protective of her as under his purview of being her CO.

Even if I were still a shipper, I'd have to say that really didn't see anything in this phase of the series that pointed to any real romantic feelings between Jack and Sam. Anything I'd have ever taken as a hint of that came later in the series. It really bugs me when people take stuff from later seasons and try to project it backward in time to the first couple of seasons: "Oh, it was always there!" No, not really, it wasn't. Even if it did develop later on (which is itself open to debate, and please note that at one time I was in the 'shipper camp myself so I've actually argued both sides at different points in my own time as a fan) it wasn't there then.

I've been arguing for both sides of late. Proves for interesting conversation!

[Falcon Horus]

Right now, he's protective of her as under his purview of being her CO.

Carter is very much capable of looking out for herself. Sure, he's her CO but she's a soldier just like him, smarter but still a soldier.

[Sparky She-Demon]

Carter is very much capable of looking out for herself. Sure, he's her CO but she's a soldier just like him, smarter but still a soldier.

He'd still not want anyone taking advantage of her.

[Falcon Horus]

He'd still not want anyone taking advantage of her.

Seriously, are you seriously suggesting what I think you're suggesting? That she's some sort of damsel in distress who needs a male escort to protect her? Really?!

This is Carter we're talking about. I pity any and all who try to take advantage of her, she'll kick them in the ... where it hurts. Or have you conveniently forgotten about Emancipation?

[Sparky She-Demon]

Seriously, are you seriously suggesting what I think you're suggesting? That she's some sort of damsel in distress who needs a male escort to protect her? Really?!

This is Carter we're talking about. I pity any and all who try to take advantage of her, she'll kick them in the ... where it hurts. Or have you conveniently forgotten about Emancipation?

Perish the thought! But there's still going to be a part of Jack that will want to protect her.

[SF_and_Coffee]

I'm with Falcon Horus on this.

Sam doesn't need to be protected, and Jack bloody well knows it. I also think he knows she'd take offense at any suggestion of protectiveness from him. Even if the two of them were openly lovers, I'm pretty sure of two things: 1) that a major part of what would attract him to Sam would be the fact that she's completely capable of looking out for herself, and 2) that Sam is not the type of woman to look kindly upon expressions of jealousy and Jack is not only aware of this but also would appreciate the fact enough to avoid crossing that line.

Clarification of my history on the S/J issue (not that I think anyone is confused, but just in case): At one point I was a Sam/Jack shipper, albeit mildly so. Then after I thought about it a bit, and really delved into both of their psyches while exploring the characters for a fanfic I've not yet written, I came to the conclusion that neither one of them would've ever actively pursued a relationship with the other as long as both of them were still in uniform and attached to the same command. They're simply both too professional. Was there a potential for attraction? Certainly. Was there ever an active "crush" going on? Maybe. "A Hundred Days" hints at the possibility in Sam, although her work to retrieve Jack could just as easily be attributed to friendship and/or loyalty, or even to her drive to solve whatever new problem she's presented with. And various things that Jack has said throughout the series could indicate anything from a romantic attraction on his part to a stronger friendship bond than he'd ever expected to have with her or with any member of his team, given its potential to interfere with his ability to efficiently command said team. (Note that IMO there may be precedent in his life pre-Stargate for him to think that way.)

My further opinion: I think the show's writers went into completely unnecessary and contradictory territory by planting suggestions of romance between these two, as it's something that anyone who understands the military would find at odds with the other elements of the characters as presented. Also, because I am bothered by the thinly-veiled implication that it is impossible for a straight man and a straight woman to have a strong bond that isn't romantic. As a straight woman whose closest platonic friendships tend mostly to be with straight men, I take high exception to the insinuation that this type of friendships could not actually be presented as believable entities to an audience.

[Sparky She-Demon]

Okay. I don't want to start an argument.

[Falcon Horus]

I'm afraid it's too late for that, Sparky She-Demon. It's not an argument, it's a discussion with two sides...

A sidenote perhaps: I'm defending a character here - Carter in this case - that I don't favor for the biggest part of SG1's run. I don't hate her (except that small stint she was in Atlantis for) but I don't love her either.

[Sparky She-Demon]

Fair enough.

[fems]

Also, because I am bothered by the thinly-veiled implication that it is impossible for a straight man and a straight woman to have a strong bond that isn't romantic. As a straight woman whose closest platonic friendships tend mostly to be with straight men, I take high exception to the insinuation that this type of friendships could not actually be presented as believable entities to an audience.

You do realize there were two other male teammates and tons of other men on base that Sam was friends with and never expressed any romantic feelings/attraction for, right?

[SF_and_Coffee]

You do realize there were two other male teammates and tons of other men on base that Sam was friends with and never expressed any romantic feelings/attraction for, right?

Her friendships with those other characters were never really explored beyond superficial levels. We never really saw any strong focus on the dynamic between Sam and Daniel, or Sam and Teal'c, or other males. We did see it with Sam and Jack, but rather than leaving it at friendship, eventually someone decided it was necessary to start hinting around at the potential for them to be more than friends. THAT is what bothers me. It's like the thinking went, "If a man and a woman have a strong bond, then OF COURSE it has to lead to romance." No. It. Doesn't.