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    Did anyone else notice the look of pure glee on the little boy Jack is carrying at the beginning?
    Calculus and Alcohol don't mix. Never drink and derive.

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      Originally posted by Girlbot View Post
      Not a really smart Tok'ra here. Came off a little too agressive for a being that wants to be trusted. Maybe this is where Jack started to build his distrust for them. I always agreed with his assessment of the Tok'ra
      Agreed, I think it is very out of character for a Tokra to have exposed itself and behaved the way it did when first discovered. I suppose it tried to make Sam understand but Jack and the others would never believe it anyway. And yes, I also agree Jack's distrust comes from this very episode and eventually spirals into almost disrespect/disregard for the Tokra race as their interactions develop.

      Originally posted by LeftHandedGuitarist View Post
      I love this episode. To me, it represents a turning point in SG-1 in much the same way that Solitudes did. It opens up the world a bit more and begins new plot threads which will spread out as the series continues. The episode even looks different to what has come before, with new locations, bigger sets, impressive effects and more adventurous cinematography and lighting.

      - My memory isn't great, but is this episode the first mention of the System Lords? Or did we hear that term in season 1?
      I think the opening attack on the planet really hits the viewer like "BAM!" you thought the action/budget was over after the season2 opener but no, it's still going. I love that.

      A think it may be the first mention of System Lords, I do not recall it earlier in season 1.

      My favourite part of the episode is by far Daniel's complete ignorance to everything that is going on around him. His opening line in the Gateroom when Sam/Jolinar is trying to espace "Jack... What the heck is going on???". And then later again in the Gateroom he has no clue who that guy is and cannot understand why he would be there. I think Daniel has had two fantastically understated episodes in S2 so far. Shanks plays them both brilliantly.

      "The greatest compliment that was ever paid me was when one asked me what I thought, and attended to my answer.” - Henry David Thoreau

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        Agree that AT shows her native chops shifting smoothly between Jolinar and Sam.

        And I don't know about it being the first "System Lord" mention, like another's question about Teal'c not yet spouting, "Indeed." I did notice Jack and Sam in the briefing room in BDUs and I'm trying to think when they stopped wearing blue uniforms.

        Each time the writers introduced a new element to the show, today, the Tok'ra, the universe just expands so much. It's unlike any other show ever.

        That Teal'c can't sense Jolinar's presence, but does sense Goa'uld in later eps is puzzling as is the question earlier asked about the Ashrak ring. Viewers would like to know!

        The most fun part of this ep for me though has to be the focus on Janet's dimunitive size. It's shouted out when she and Jack are outside the door Cassie's locked and then most definitely when she's wheeled into the infirmary with Sam after the Ashrak attack.
        Cute!

        Comment


          The first thing that comes to mind when thinking about this episode (apart from our introduction to the Tok'Ra) is the appearance from Judy Norton. I grew up watching 'The Waltons' and loved that she was part of this episode. I don't think I had seen her previously in anything non-Waltons related when I first saw this episode, so this was a joy for me.

          As for the introduction to the Tok'Ra, every time I watch this episode, it frightens me how easily the Ashrak was able to penetrate the SGC undetected. I realize that we haven't come across all of the cool gadgets, knowledge & intel that we'll have later on in detecting such things, but it's still disconcerting to see how he hid in plain sight.

          I think AT did a wonderful job in portraying the differences between Sam & Jolinar. We see later on in more detail throughout this series that the Tok'Ra are not afraid to die for their cause, but it was still shocking at the end of this episode to see Jolinar give her life for Sam.

          Jolinar obviously had access to all of Sam's thoughts & feelings, but I wonder how much of the compassion & awareness to not take another innocent life (Sam) dying along with her was actually Jolinar's own personality?

          One of my favorite parts of this episode is seeing Janet riding on the gurney when they're bringing Sam into the infirmary, and seamlessly issuing orders. Up to this point, it was quite rare to see that immediacy of the medical personnel saving someone on the base. And of course, the scene makes me chuckle thinking that they probably did it that way because TR would have looked very short when trying to run alongside as they brought her in.

          And just for the record - short people (I'm one of them) ROCK!

          I also find it a bit baffling that Teal'c was never able to sense Jolinar or the Ashrak, when Cassie was able to detect Jolinar in Sam. I guess the only thing I can think of is that Cassie didn't notice it until she hugged Sam. Teal'c was never that close to either of them.

          One question I still have with this episode -
          Was it actually Sam that pleaded to Jack in the cell ("Oh God, he's telling you the truth! Please, Jack!") or was it Jolinar pretending to be Sam? Because we know how rarely (even through the entire series) that Sam calls him "Jack".

          Another small point that I always seem to note when watching this episode is Teal'c mentioning that Bra'tac was the first to tell Teal'c about the Tok'Ra. It's another reference to reiterate what Teal'c mentioned in "the enemy within" that basically Jaffa have no written history. Their history, stories, & legends are all passed down to the younger generations verbally. As this series goes on, I keep thinking just how much "folklore" there is for Jaffa to remember during their fairly lengthy lives.

          And finally - Cassie consoling Sam at the end... priceless!
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            My LiveJournal post

            I agree that this is a great episode, and I love Amanda's acting.
            "Thanks to denial, I'm immortal."
            "A big 'Hello' to all intelligent life out there, and for everyone else, the secret is to bang the rocks together, guys!"
            "Excuse me, barmaid? You seem to have brought me the wrong offspring. I ordered an extra large boy with beefy arms, extra guts and glory on the side. This here, this is a talking fishbone!"
            "I'm Jack. It means... what's in the box?"

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              Originally posted by Girlbot View Post
              Not a really smart Tok'ra here. Came off a little too agressive for a being that wants to be trusted. Maybe this is where Jack started to build his distrust for them. I always agreed with his assessment of the Tok'ra
              I agree with this. I understand it was written that way so the audience would think it was a regular Gou'ald.

              Other than that it was a fantastic episode. AT did a wonderful job.

              Comment


                I wondered about the bit where Sam is herself for a moment pleading to "Jack", yes it did seem out of character.

                Then, on thinking about it, the Tok'ra was accessing her memories and feelings. To me this showed that Sam privately thought of him as a good friend and Jolinar picked up on this and thought to use it, but misunderstanding that it was not the way she behaved towards him in normal every day interactions. It reminds me of that other scene earlier in the episode where Sam sounds very businesslike and then tries to be like a buddy to Jack with the "I'll go right now. Wouldn't want to break post-mission protocol, right, Colonel?" line in a jolly voice and a friendly playful thump on his arm along with it.

                This was a good episode in that it introduced the idea of 'good' Goa'ulds, although that seems to be a hard thing to accept for SG-1. I liked the way they introduce these sorts of things and you can never be absolutely sure of what they are. I think we were always kept guessing by what the Tok'ra really wanted.

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                  Better than average ep. Sam is a Tok'ra, who we'll learn more about later this season. Forgot Cassie was back in this one.

                  So Hammond (of Texas) is now wearing his normal clothing. After watching season 1, I forgot what he normally wore (the unbuttoned collar).

                  Monday's Episode, is an average one.
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                    I think this is a great episode. We get an interesting new frienemy that will play an important role in the show's mythology.

                    I love seeing Cassie again and how she continues to be a part of our characters' lives.

                    As for Jolinar, I can't say I much like her. Just from what we know of her right now, she seems very bold and agressive for a Tok'ra, leading an army in rebellion. And she also seems very arrogant to me. Although she claims to be different from the goa'uld we know she's taken at least two unwillingly hosts in order to save herself. Her actions lead to the goa'uld attack on the Nassians, Sam almost dying at an assassin's hand, and Daniel being held at gun point. What makes her think her life is so much more important than everyone around her? Or that she has the right to take what she needs at the expense of others? That's a very gou'aldish attitude if you ask me. No wonder Jack and the others didn't trust her.

                    Even if she had behaved meek and submissive from the beginning instead of being so confrontational I don't think it would have changed their attitude toward her. As far as we know at this point, a snake's a snake and there is no way for them to know that she isn't really just tricking them to get their gaurd down. Teal'c's only heard of the Tok'ra in legend. And her actions in taking the Nassian man and Carter as hosts certainly wouldn't engender trust.

                    I do think that being possessed by a Tok'ra and the repercussions from that experience make Sam and even more interesting character and it gave her a storyline that wasn't just about being "the girl."



                    Comment


                      Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
                      As for Jolinar, I can't say I much like her. Just from what we know of her right now, she seems very bold and agressive for a Tok'ra, leading an army in rebellion. And she also seems very arrogant to me. Although she claims to be different from the goa'uld we know she's taken at least two unwillingly hosts in order to save herself. Her actions lead to the goa'uld attack on the Nassians, Sam almost dying at an assassin's hand, and Daniel being held at gun point. What makes her think her life is so much more important than everyone around her? Or that she has the right to take what she needs at the expense of others? That's a very gou'aldish attitude if you ask me. No wonder Jack and the others didn't trust her.

                      Even if she had behaved meek and submissive from the beginning instead of being so confrontational I don't think it would have changed their attitude toward her. As far as we know at this point, a snake's a snake and there is no way for them to know that she isn't really just tricking them to get their gaurd down. Teal'c's only heard of the Tok'ra in legend. And her actions in taking the Nassian man and Carter as hosts certainly wouldn't engender trust.
                      I understand that part of Jolinar's resistance was about trying to escape again so she could flee from the Ashrak. Also taking into account the Tok'Ra hadn't really previously encountered true allies (someone willing enough to join with them to fight and destroy the Goa'uld) like the Tauri, so I'm guessing Jolinar had no reason to trust any of them.

                      I know we see through the seasons that the Tok'Ra still have quite a bit of the Goa'uld arrogancy, but how much of Jolinar's increasing aggression in this episode was due to the fact that Sam was fighting her internally?
                      Spoiler:
                      later on in "The Tok'Ra Pt 2", Sam tells Jack, "If I wasn't fighting her and I knew what it meant for Jolinar to be a Tok'ra, it might have been…I don't know, enlightening."

                      I also ponder the thought of what if Jolinar hadn't died? What if the Ashrak had been killed, Sam realized that Jolinar was a "peaceful" symbiote and decided to stay blended? Just think of the powerful force the two of them (Sam & Jolinar) working together as one would have been. How would Sam's personality have changed with having access to not just Jolinar's memories, but her current thoughts and, ultimately, actions/reactions.
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                        Originally posted by KayLyne View Post
                        I understand that part of Jolinar's resistance was about trying to escape again so she could flee from the Ashrak. Also taking into account the Tok'Ra hadn't really previously encountered true allies (someone willing enough to join with them to fight and destroy the Goa'uld) like the Tauri, so I'm guessing Jolinar had no reason to trust any of them.
                        That doesn't really fly as an excuse for me because what makes her life so much more important than an entire village and two unwilling individuals? It makes her claims of a symbiotic relationship and not taking unwilling hosts seem more of a convenience than a principle because when push came to shove she chose to be parasitical.

                        I know we see through the seasons that the Tok'Ra still have quite a bit of the Goa'uld arrogancy, but how much of Jolinar's increasing aggression in this episode was due to the fact that Sam was fighting her internally?
                        And why wouldn't Sam fight her? She was acting like a gou'ald. She took her as an unwilling host. She threatened a child (one Sam dearly loved). She tried to blow up the base. She was entirely focused on her own interests. Given her actions and attitude I can't see Sam believing her to be anything but an enemy.

                        Spoiler:
                        later on in "The Tok'Ra Pt 2", Sam tells Jack, "If I wasn't fighting her and I knew what it meant for Jolinar to be a Tok'ra, it might have been…I don't know, enlightening."
                        Spoiler:

                        The only thing Sam's statement demonstrates for me is the deep lingering trauma of Jolinar's possession. As Jack points out, she had previously stated that it was the worst experience of her entire life. Throughout the episode Sam is painfully confused and emotionally overwrought, even stating at one point that she understands what it must feel like to be schitzophrenic. She's also desperate to save her dying father. Many times victims of abuse will try to justify and protect their abusers in order to give their ordeal some sense and meaning. And later, as Sam learns even more about the depths to which Jolinar would sink, I think she is disgusted and knows this is not someone she would have wanted to be a part of her.


                        I also ponder the thought of what if Jolinar hadn't died? What if the Ashrak had been killed, Sam realized that Jolinar was a "peaceful" symbiote and decided to stay blended? Just think of the powerful force the two of them (Sam & Jolinar) working together as one would have been. How would Sam's personality have changed with having access to not just Jolinar's memories, but her current thoughts and, ultimately, actions/reactions.
                        To me that sounds like an absolute horror! I'm so glad Jolinar died. Seeing Sam deal with the consequences was interesting, but having her live as a Tok'ra would not have incorporated well into the show IMHO. I do not consider Jolinar, with her arogance and situational ethics, a sympathetic character. She would have ruined the essence of Sam's character, the strength with grace that she embodies for me.



                        Comment


                          My take on the Sam/Jolinar relationship is there was something there of a positive nature. Otherwise, why was Sam so depressed? If there was only a struggle, why wouldn't Sam just be angry?

                          Amanda ROCKS! and I love Cassie!

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                            Originally posted by Nut_ty View Post
                            Otherwise, why was Sam so depressed?
                            Maybe because she'd been infested with a parasite who messed up her mind, made her (body) do awful things like threatening everything/one she tries to protect and was responsible for her nearly dying only to end up with gruesome memories of all the stuff Jolinar has done (which isn't pretty, like we learn later on) and imprints of feelings about things/people she doesn't even know?

                            We don't know how a Goa'uld/Tok'ra controls a host and how they suppress them, but considering what we know they can do and what we learned from Kawalsky's infestation in the pilot, I think it's safe to assume they use a lot of hormones/neurotransmitters (either natural occurring in the host or produced by the snake) which would mess up the host's body chemistry.

                            All that and knowing the Goa'uld (since Sam still refers to it as such) is being reabsorbed into your body would be enough to send anyone into a depression, in my opinion.
                            Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
                            Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
                            On FFnet or AO3


                            My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories.

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                              Originally posted by Nut_ty View Post
                              My take on the Sam/Jolinar relationship is there was something there of a positive nature. Otherwise, why was Sam so depressed? If there was only a struggle, why wouldn't Sam just be angry?

                              Amanda ROCKS! and I love Cassie!
                              Anger is not the most common response to severe abuse. More often than not it leads to depression and self-loathing. I actually think her reaction at the end of this episode is perfect, as is her emotional confusion later on.



                              Comment


                                Originally posted by KayLyne View Post

                                One question I still have with this episode -
                                Was it actually Sam that pleaded to Jack in the cell ("Oh God, he's telling you the truth! Please, Jack!") or was it Jolinar pretending to be Sam? Because we know how rarely (even through the entire series) that Sam calls him "Jack".
                                this is a long standing debate on the shipper thread , but years ago, i asked amanda this very question in an online q/a, and amanda said it was 'sam' yelling out to jack.

                                amanda said it wasn't stated in the script, but for her, she played it as it being sam.
                                sally

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