Talion (1017)

[Uber]

Fairly good albeit incredibly violent Teal'c episode. *remembers the shish ka-jaffa at the end*

I did have a couple of problems with it. Like the hand-to-hand fight with Mitchell, for instance. It would have been a lot more powerful had Teal'c and Daniel fought, or Teal'c and Sam...because they all share a 10 year history together and it would have resonated a lot more with me personally. I didn't really care that Mitchell was getting his butt kicked and frankly, Teal'c didn't seem all that conflicted about beating Mitchell to a pulp.

And how about that recovery time? Mitchell was up and running just in time to rush into the building with the others...and he looked fresh as a daisy too.

I suppose we're supposed to be okay with Mitchell lying on his report. Are to then assume that Sam, Daniel and Vala also lied? Don't get me wrong...I don't mind them protecting one of their own like that. It's just that after getting into a major fight with a friend and fists are flying, it would have been nice to see some sort of aftermath between the team members. Instead, it was just kinda swept under the carpet.

I didn't care a whole lot for seeing Teal'c resort to truly evil tactics to get what he wanted though. He's supposed to be one of the good guys. Now we all know that Teal'c is relentless when on one of his JRT kicks...but serious lines were crossed in this one. In the past he was willing to at least consider putting the needs of others ahead of his personal vendettas...but here he wouldn't even budge. Further, he was more than committed to getting what he wanted. I'm sorry...but I have a hard time cheering him blowing someone up like that. Dedication is one thing...but seriously...

I loved the scenes with Bra'tac though. They added that nice bit of pathos we've missed for a while. His scenes with Teal'c were heartfelt and compelling and truly, he is one of the staples of this show. I'm also relieved that he didn't get killed off here.

So, definitely a VAST improvement over the last two weeks...but it still missed the mark by missing some obvious opportunities for team angst and tension.

And of course, we never found out who was camped by Teal'c's bedside all that time. I suppose that fits with the new mindset...which is, don't actually tell people a story; leave it vague so that everyone can interpret things however they want to.

[P-90_177]

Fairly good albeit incredibly violent Teal'c episode.

I did have a couple of problems with it. Like the hand-to-hand fight with Mitchell, for instance. It would have been a lot more powerful had Teal'c and Daniel fought, or Teal'c and Sam...because they all share a 10 year history together and it would have resonated a lot more with me personally. I didn't really care that Mitchell was getting his butt kicked and frankly, Teal'c didn't seem all that conflicted about beating Mitchell to a pulp.
.

Well Cam still doesn't know T as well as the others plus he's the only one that's been trained by jaffa (the sodan) so he would have the best chance. The rest of the team wouldn't have ought him either. They would have tried talking to him. Mitchell knew what he had to do.

[jenks]

Fairly good albeit incredibly violent Teal'c episode. *remembers the shish ka-jaffa at the end*

I did have a couple of problems with it. Like the hand-to-hand fight with Mitchell, for instance. It would have been a lot more powerful had Teal'c and Daniel fought, or Teal'c and Sam...because they all share a 10 year history together and it would have resonated a lot more with me personally. I didn't really care that Mitchell was getting his butt kicked and frankly, Teal'c didn't seem all that conflicted about beating Mitchell to a pulp.

I think they chose Mitchell because he's the only one who would stand half a chance...

[Uber]

Well Cam still doesn't know T as well as the others plus he's the only one that's been trained by jaffa (the sodan) so he would have the best chance. The rest of the team wouldn't have ought him either. They would have tried talking to him. Mitchell knew what he had to do.

I think they would have fought him. They would have tried to talk to him first, just like Mitchell did, but their orders were to contain him at all costs and they would have done what they had to do.

Just because Daniel and Sam weren't "trained by the Sodan" doesn't mean they can't fight. In fact both have and can fight hand-to-hand when necessary and frankly it would have been more meaningful to see these friends of a decade on opposing sides having to literally duke it out.

[Uber]

I think they chose Mitchell because he's the only one who would stand half a chance...

Given what we know and have seen of the others fighting, I don't think that's a fair assessment of their abilities.

[P-90_177]

I think they would have fought him. They would have tried to talk to him first, just like Mitchell did, but their orders were to contain him at all costs and they would have done what they had to do.

Just because Daniel and Sam weren't "trained by the Sodan" doesn't mean they can't fight. In fact both have and can fight hand-to-hand when necessary and frankly it would have been more meaningful to see these friends of a decade on opposing sides having to literally duke it out.

well i have no doubt that they can fight. but no where near as well as mitchell or tealc. i don't think it would have had more meaning...............it just wouldn't have lasted as long.

[Uber]

well i have no doubt that they can fight. but no where near as well as mitchell or tealc. i don't think it would have had more meaning...............it just wouldn't have lasted as long.

Not sure how you've come to this conclusion.

In one of the first episodes we saw Carter in, she lasted quite a while versus a warlord in a knife fight. And won. We've seen her fight off and on throughout the years and I'm guessing is a better fighter now than she was ten years ago.

Now she would have lost because the story demanded it...but to suggest she couldn't have held her own doesn't fit in with what's been established in cannon.

[Pitry]

And how about that recovery time? Mitchell was up and running just in time to rush into the building with the others...and he looked fresh as a daisy too.

I suppose we're supposed to be okay with Mitchell lying on his report. Are to then assume that Sam, Daniel and Vala also lied? Don't get me wrong...I don't mind them protecting one of their own like that. It's just that after getting into a major fight with a friend and fists are flying, it would have been nice to see some sort of aftermath between the team members. Instead, it was just kinda swept under the carpet.

I think both are catalysts for the same thing - Teal'c did his best not to huirt Mitchell because he's a friend and he cares about him - and they're willing to forgive Teal'c what he's done because of their friendship. While this migth be the first time SG1's members went after each other, this by far isn't the first time one of them has put the others in risk. They're willing to go to enough lengths to forgive nad forget, especially as they seem to quite agree with his reasons.

I didn't care a whole lot for seeing Teal'c resort to truly evil tactics to get what he wanted though. He's supposed to be one of the good guys. Now we all know that Teal'c is relentless when on one of his JRT kicks...but serious lines were crossed in this one. In the past he was willing to at least consider putting the needs of others ahead of his personal vendettas...but here he wouldn't even budge. Further, he was more than committed to getting what he wanted. I'm sorry...but I have a hard time cheering him blowing someone up like that. Dedication is one thing...but seriously...

I agree lines were crossed in this one.... I acutlaly do think Teal'c acted Teal'c-ish - he made it quite clear after he thought Tanith has escaped in Exodus he will never let the subject of his JRT (lol at initials btw ) get away again. And also he doesn't hold in high regard any of the people he tortured.... it's rather the flippant way SG1 dealt with it I'm uncomfortable with. In 10 years, this is a first in SG1 (not SGA, tho, unfortunately) - a true moral arguement that's being swept under the carpet.

And of course, we never found out who was camped by Teal'c's bedside all that time. I suppose that fits with the new mindset...which is, don't actually tell people a story; leave it vague so that everyone can interpret things however they want to.

Nono, I think they meant one of the team was always at his bedside, as in they took shifts to make sure there's always someone there

[Uber]

Nono, I think they meant one of the team was always at his bedside, as in they took shifts to make sure there's always someone there

Ah. Oops. Okay. Well my commentary about their vagueness still stands, it just doesn't apply in that case.

[talyn2k1]

Is it just me or is it hard to take Dan From Eastenders seriously as an intergalactic warlord?

I knew i`d seen him somewhere before!

I just hate that put on semi-aristocrat English accent. News to America - WE DONT ALL TALK LIKE THAT!

He was making a big fluff of his pronunciation in the briefing room scenes and thats when I really thought to myself "god I wish they`d got someone else to play this part!"

We haven't seen dark side Teal'c since the Tanith / Chronos storylines so it was good to see that side of him again and to see him shouting at Landry - could see the surprise in his face

Good scenes:
Teal'c shouting at Landry
Teal'c fighting Mitchell
Every scene that involved Teal'c doing something REALLY bad.
The final fight scene between Teal'c and Arkad
Teal'c and Bra'tac bonding at the end of the episode. Bra'tac's statement that he would've come away from a fight like that without a scratch in the past (although to be fair to him he had been staffed twice by that point!)

Bad scenes:
Arkad in the briefing room scene - just not convincing at all
Any scene where Arkad spoke with that rubbish posh English accent!

Nitpicks:
Just the one today. In the scene where Mitchell finds SG-? unconscious the weapons fire that flies over him is clearly from an Ori staff but Teal'c is carrying a Sodan staff and no one was witnessed on that planet with an Ori staff.

Conclusion:
A good Teal'c episode and a good continuation of SG-1's run of great episodes.
7/10 - would've been 8/9 if Arkad had been played by a different actor. Thank god they killed him cos now there is no chance of him turning up again.

One question: Dan...I mean Arkad, stated that he controlled a fleet more powerful than any other System Lord has before. Does that mean his fleet is bigger than Anubis' or Apophis' fleets? If so, how big is the fleet controlled by the council?

[sgeureka]

Just because Daniel and Sam weren't "trained by the Sodan" doesn't mean they can't fight. In fact both have and can fight hand-to-hand when necessary and frankly it would have been more meaningful to see these friends of a decade on opposing sides having to literally duke it out.

While I agree on a script level, I have major objections to this on how this would actually have looked on-screen.

AT's fight scenes (e.g. The Road Not Taken, Desperate Measures) looked very choreographed to me, unfortunately in the bad sense. I doubt that AT could come anywhere close in believability to what we've seen between Mitchell and Teal'c in this episode.

Daniel - maybe. His only "real" fight was in Prometheus Unbound though (I think?), and he could hardly fight off Vala then. That was also played for laughs, so I can't tell how many viewers would associate laughter with an SG-1 vs. Teal'c fight.

And although CB was pretty convincing in Aeryn Sun fights, Vala is just too fly weight for Teal'c,

So, out of all the options, I would have chosen Mitchell. And that's what the writers did, too.

[JackDaniels]

Yeah, so when I realised it was a Jaffa storyline I thought I would be partially watching whilst doing something else. How wrong was I? I'm sure there are others amongst you who tend to zone out on Teal'c storylines. Don't get me wrong, I love Teal'c and he was some of the best one liners in the show, but guys with tatoos on their heads wearing oversized dressing gowns and discussing their freedom can only take you so far. And although I'm now going to talk about what I liked about the episode can someone just tell me...
WHEN IS BRA'TAC FINALLY GOING TO BECOME LEADER OF THE JAFFA SO THEY CAN GET RID OF ALL THE CRAZY NUTTY JAFFA LEADERS?

Gripe over. Yes those Brits amongst us would say, Dan from Eastenders bent our minds and the accent was beyond annoying at times, but hey, minor details.
Teal'c's aggression was palpable, and whilst Bra'tac felt it had a great deal to do with past conflicts with Arkad, by the end of the episode there was the greater revelation that it was his fear of losing Bra'tac that motivated him. their scenes at the end for some reason reminded me of Daniel and Teal'c in "The Changeling" - they will always be there for each other.
I also liked the fact that Teal'c is no longer the powerful warrior that he used to be. Don't get me wrong, he's still a big strong scary dude, but cast you mind back even to season 8 where he's running killing guys with two staff weapons (sacrifices) and he's no longer the same. Yet his determination to see the Jaffa free is stronger than ever, and that is something this episode reminds us of.
His line when he left the guy to explode was priceless.
His fight scene with Mitchell was good (the perception that he didn't seem bothered about kicking his ass was probably true - it was his evil twin who got to do it in Ripple Effect). I wish he would have had more interaction with Sam and Daniel, but the silence in the locker room when they all considered how they could challenge him said everything, as did the way they stood by him.

This episode confirmed to me how strong this season of SG1 has been (especially against season 9, which as I've re-watched it on DVD isn't that strong). Long live the Teal'c - man who has nearly been crippled several times but can use handy time devices to be back on his feet in no time and then kick some serious ass.

[jenks]

Not sure how you've come to this conclusion.

In one of the first episodes we saw Carter in, she lasted quite a while versus a warlord in a knife fight. And won. We've seen her fight off and on throughout the years and I'm guessing is a better fighter now than she was ten years ago.

Now she would have lost because the story demanded it...but to suggest she couldn't have held her own doesn't fit in with what's been established in cannon.

Why? I'd say she was in her prime at the begining of SG-1, it's all downhill from there. I'd say holding your own in a knife fight with an old man is far off from being first prime to Apophis or being trained to be able to fight like the most elite group of Jaffa in existence...

[Uber]

Why? I'd say she was in her prime at the begining of SG-1, it's all downhill from there. I'd say holding your own in a knife fight with an old man is far off from being first prime to Apophis or being trained to be able to fight like the most elite group of Jaffa in existence...

Whereas I'd say she was a bit green before and has gotten better and stronger with time. She's a battle seasoned soldier now who's worked with and has known Teal'c for a decade.

BTW, that "old man" was a warlord who went out on raiding campaigns quite regularly, and I daresay was skilled in the art of hand to hand combat. Sam held her own against him and defeated him.

I would have liked to have seen her fighting Teal'c. Firstly because it would have meant more seeing these friends of a decade come to literal blows and secondly to see how the fight would have progressed. They know each other...probably have sparred with each other. They know the other's strengths and weaknesses. They would have known more about what to exploit in the fight and I would have found it more compelling to watch.

Yes Sam would have lost in the end, as this is what was needed in the story, but I don't agree that the fight would have been as short lived as you'd imagine and I further don't agree with the comment that "it's all downhill from there."

[jenks]

I think you're giving her far too much credit if you even measure how long she'd last in seconds, I reckon one swing from Teal'c and she'd be out for the count, he's probably got more muscle in his big toe than she hasin her whole body!