The Cam and Vala discussion thread

[Farscapefan]

There should be an option: Screwed up Friday's line up killed the show.

[david2708]

Actually a lot of people loved Season 6. It was after Brad Wright left and Season 7 began that they felt the show started down its descent and I agree in some ways.

Kinda agree as i didn't mind 6 too much. Definately big noticable deterioration starting season 7.
I tend to lump Gate into two categories. The Showtime years-good. The Scifi Channel years-mostly really bad.

[scarimor]

Season 6 is one of my favourites too.

[Skydiver]

me too

in s6 i had one 'cringer', an episode that was so very cheesy and i felt sorry for the actors having to even make it. and that was sight unseen

then comes s7 and the proportion of cringers gets larger and larger.

like folks have said, s7 is the advent of

spooky BIGGER bad guy
emphasis on one character over teh others
emphasis on one character to the detriment of the others
the 'they're just a bunch fo screw-ups' attitude
the tank tops and stunt costuming (emphasis on sexy and revealing over common sense and practical)
stunt casting - super duper guest star we're gonna hype
the plot treated as secondary to the story and HUMONGOUS plot holes

among other things

and what's on biggie aobut s7???? tis the year mister cooper took the reins

I'm certain that there was no small amount of input from the fine folks at scifi - you know, the ones that think wrestling is science fiction and treat all fans like drooling 13 year old boys - yet, as show runner, he has 'final say' on things. And i think his image of teh show is so diametrically opposed to what we're used to that he simply turned away so many fans that the show is unsustainable.

Coop is holding that gun in which cam and vala are two of many bullets

it's just taken a few years for him to annoy, tick off and turn off enough fans for it to be noticible

[scarimor]

Season 7 is also when they killed off Janet Fraiser - an extremely popular character* - for no big payoff. At a time when RDA's time was reducing and they knew they were going to be losing Don Davis - utter foolishness and a prime example of the runner losing sight of the bigger picture. That he didn't realise (or didn't care) how important a regular secondary character like that was to the show as a whole is a measure of his inability to see beyond the single-episode-parameters.

*In two GateWorld long-term character polls, Janet Fraiser comes in at third place - even ahead of two of the SG-1 team-members.

[Farscapefan]

Coop is holding that gun in which cam and vala are two of many bullets

it's just taken a few years for him to annoy, tick off and turn off enough fans for it to be noticible

And it's taken about a year for him to gain another fan, although I can see that I'm in the real minority here, who really appreciates and loves his job and his philosophy included in the new direction of the show.

[Skydiver]

the thing is, had coop not so massively mishandled the show, cam and vala could have been added and integrated into the show and we'd be looking for a s11.

his mishandling of things means that cam and vala will never have a chance to fully develop and exist.

stargate COULD have gone on longer. Had they kept the recipe that they had in seasons 1-6, a recipe that was a ratings success (and yes, some things do need to be tweaked for time/life issues) cam and vala could have joined a successful, long running show and been the 'heirs apparant' to the next incarnation

Instead they're like Ezri Dax or doggett or any other amount of 'added to teh show a year or two before it's cancelled' characters. foot notes in the show's history and always the unfortunate recipients of 'so and so killed the show' while the true 'villian' - the writing/show running - escapes unscathed

Basically, if coop was a better show runner, fans of cam and vala would have years of these characters to look forward to, instead of just a handful of episodes that will always be under a cloud

[Farscapefan]

stargate COULD have gone on longer.

Yup, if SciFi didn't plan to destroy it from the start of season 10 with the crappy and ****ty line up on Friday's night.

[Skydiver]

the thing is, if the show was 'good' and drawing ratings, the lineup wouldn't matter.

IMHO, the lineup may contribute a bit and if bsg was on now the eps might be getting a few more ratings points (course, i also think that bsg's ratings will be down too when it premieres next month), however, stargate in s6 pulled fantastic ratings and it pretty much stood alone on friday nights

citing the lineup is just another excuse to get coop a 'get out of killing the show free' card

[Descent]

however, stargate in s6 pulled fantastic ratings and it pretty much stood alone on friday nights

Fantastic? *looks over S6 ratings* No, I wouldn't really call them fantastic. "Good" would be the right word though and the fact that SG-1 stood alone then is a valid point.

[Farscapefan]

the thing is, if the show was 'good' and drawing ratings, the lineup wouldn't matter.

IMHO, the lineup may contribute a bit and if bsg was on now the eps might be getting a few more ratings points (course, i also think that bsg's ratings will be down too when it premieres next month), however, stargate in s6 pulled fantastic ratings and it pretty much stood alone on friday nights

citing the lineup is just another excuse to get coop a 'get out of killing the show free' card

Of course the lineup is important. Do a little research around GW forum and find the one post by Garris (as far as I remember) - analyzing this season's situation from CASUAL VIEWER's POV. You (and me actually) are looking at the show from fan's POV, not just casual viewers. They need something more to keep them at home and in front of TV and not to skip to another channel. The lack of BSG and the crappy Night Stalker proved it.

[RealmOfX]

Yup, if SciFi didn't plan to destroy it from the start of season 10 with the crappy and ****ty line up on Friday's night.

Stargate has always been on Friday nights.
RCC changed SG-1 and did it badly, instead of building on the existing fanbase he resorted to chasing a demographic that wasn't there and pissed off a large portion of the fans. Ratings went down. Show got cancelled.


Hey I heard a good one the other day - It was magnets!!

[scarimor]

A show that can't hold casual viewers without "help" from another one isn't a strong one in the first place.

The argument that the Friday line-up is that significant just won't run. If a show depends so much on lead-in etc., i.e. isn't strong enought to stand alone, then it's not a ratings-winner in the first place.

[Crow T. Robot]

They need something more to keep them at home and in front of TV and not to skip to another channel. The lack of BSG and the crappy Night Stalker proved it.

You’re counter arguing your own argument here.

You’re saying in a nutshell that SG-1 and SGA aren’t enough to keep people home and tuning in.

The ratings are down 25% that’s implying what formula the new show’s serving casual viewers aren’t staying home for it. And you can’t say it’s lack of promotion and competition either. The show’s gotten more publicity between 200 and the cancellation than it’s had in years. Regular network TV was preempted and Monk was a repeat and the ratings are only up slightly.

[Farscapefan]

You’re counter arguing your own argument here.

You’re saying in a nutshell that SG-1 and SGA aren’t enough to keep people home and tuning in.

The ratings are down 25% that’s implying what formula the new show’s serving casual viewers aren’t staying home for it. And you can’t say it’s lack of promotion and competition either. The show’s gotten more publicity between 200 and the cancellation than it’s had in years. Regular network TV was preempted and Monk was a repeat and the ratings are only up slightly.

Did you see the ads for SG-1 on ANOTHER channel and not SciFi only? How do you expect the casual viewers to even know the show is on TV?