The Cam and Vala discussion thread

[Suzotchka]

Hmmm ... do I think Vala/Cam killed Stargate? Yes, but not all by themselves (and please note, I am *NOT* talking about the actors but rather the characters). I think the addition of Cam in season 9 and then Vala in season 10 helped (but is not solely) responsible for the downfall of SG-1. Let's face it, a lot (again, not all, but a lot) of fans were unhappy. I will admit to being one of those fans. People turned the show off and the ratings reflected that.

[Rachel500]

I don't think the characters of Cam and Vala killed Stargate SG1. I do think a number of the changes in S9 and the way those changes were introduced - including the characters - had an effect on the ratings which helped justify the decision from Sci Fi to end the show.

[Mitchell82]

I think it took msome fans a little while to get used to the new characters but most fans eventually enjoy Vala/Cam. They had nothing to do with the fall of SG-1, Skiffy has that sole responsibility.

[suse]

I like both Cam and Vala, and I wish folks would stop blaming those characters. They were good enough to get a season 10 going!

It was SciFi's greed that killed this show, not the characters.

Season 10 would have likely have happened anyway as close as they were to the record for longevity. And Sam, Teal'c Daniel and Jack got them that far as well as much better writing than was done in S9, S10, and to a lesser extent S8, not Mitchell and Vala.

Greed had something to do with it, certainly. Greed for the title "longest running SF show from North America." Other than that, it's a purely business decision. <shrug>

As an aside, I do understand how frustrated and angry people are. I was the same way, but last year. I've already done my mourning for SG-1. Because what I've been watching and yes, I've watched hasn't been Sg-1 IMO.


Suse

[Mitchell82]

Season 10 would have likely have happened anyway as close as they were to the record for longevity. And Sam, Teal'c Daniel and Jack got them that far as well as much better writing than was done in S9, S10, and to a lesser extent S8, not Mitchell and Vala.


Suse

I disagree. Without RDA they wernt sure if it would live on. I love the show from seasons 1-8 and think that without Cam/Vala seasons 9 and 10 would not be as great as they are!

[suse]

I think it took msome fans a little while to get used to the new characters but most fans eventually enjoy Vala/Cam. They had nothing to do with the fall of SG-1, Skiffy has that sole responsibility.

Nothing? In Your Humble Opinion. I don't know any fans of Cam and Vala except those I see posting online. I know some "Meh..." people, but I'd hardly call them fans.

Suse

[Mitchell82]

Nothing? In Your Humble Opinion. I don't know any fans of Cam and Vala except those I see posting online. I know some "Meh..." people, but I'd hardly call them fans.

Suse

Thats b/c your not and your freinds arent. But all my friends on and offline are.

[AGateFan]

Nothing? In Your Humble Opinion. I don't know any fans of Cam and Vala except those I see posting online. I know some "Meh..." people, but I'd hardly call them fans.

Suse

That has been the experience I have had with people I talk to. Either they didnt like Mitchell or he pretty much irrelavent to them.

Vala ran the gambit since her character has gone through changes. At least one fellow really liked PU, then didnt like her at the beginning of S9... then liked her at the start of S10 but thinks she has grown annoying in the later eps. To others she is ok or disliked but I dont know anyone that really loves her.

But then the Stargate Fans I am talking about are not the type to visit forums and were never farscape fans. I have gotten one to borrow my Farscape DVDs but it takes forever for him to get around to watching an ep (as opposed to when I would give him my box set of SG-1 and he would want the next one for the next weekend) and the other fellow has no interest at all in Farscae. He just doesnt like silly humor or humor that belittles people too much.

Its interesting with him. I asked him what he thought of '200' and he said 'im done' [as in he is done with the show] but then when I probed further I found he actually like parts of the ep a lot but he has just grown tired of the crp on SG-1.... Actually I think it was SGA that killed him last week, he HATES replicators... even when they were still on stargate. He also HATES uber powerful cant-kill-without-a-plot-device badguys (which is why he wasnt fond of the replicators)... so you can only imagen what he thinks of the oreos.

So from his perspective Vala and Mitchell are incidential to why he is tired of the show. To him it is more the stupidity of the Ori and stupidity of the SGC in handling Baal... and the general stupidity of the characters this season and last.

[full.infinity]

vala didn't kill, she's a breast of fresh air to an old show.

Nice Frueudian slip there.

[suse]

I disagree. Without RDA they wernt sure if it would live on. I love the show from seasons 1-8 and think that without Cam/Vala seasons 9 and 10 would not be as great as they are!

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

Suse

[ShardsofGlass]

All of this anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much as far as how many fans liked or didn't like Mitchell or Vala. For instance, of the two people I know offline who watch SG-1, one started recently and told me Mitchell is her favorite character. Another is a longtime fan who had a hard time watching the show without RDA but kind of wanted to see it through to the end. Her only opinion about the Seasons 9 and 10 were that it didn't have RDA in them.

Also, Mitchell won the Favorite New Character Award from the Spaceys a couple month's ago, and Vala came in second. This is an award that is dependent on fan votes. If these characters were so hated offline, they would've come in last, not first and second!

The thing is, SG in general has been slipping. It's JUST SG-1, which a lot of people continue to forget. THe Monday night reruns were pulled because they aren't doing as well as before -- and those are Seasons 1-8. Mitchell and Vala aren't in them! And the syndication ratings have been going down. Plus, Atlantis gets virtually the SAME ratings as SG-1. It's still around, presumably because it's newer and less expensive to produce.

Plus, we can't ignore the fact that both gates are on opposite very popular shows on other channels, such as Monk and Psych. That eats into the ratings too. And finally, the American dollar is weak in Canada, which makes everything more expensive.

It's easy to blame two characters and take out all of your frustrations on them but it's not logical and it's not fair.

[Mitchell82]

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

Suse

Thats fine if we all had the same opinion this world would be boring!

[Nefreyu]

I think many factors killed the show. The new direction the show took after season 8 ended probably being the main reason. The show should of ended there and a new show should of been created IMO. The writers seemed to push everyone else to the background in favor of the new male lead.

[suse]

All of this anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much as far as how many fans liked or didn't like Mitchell or Vala. For instance, of the two people I know offline who watch SG-1, one started recently and told me Mitchell is her favorite character. Another is a longtime fan who had a hard time watching the show without RDA but kind of wanted to see it through to the end. Her only opinion about the Seasons 9 and 10 were that it didn't have RDA in them.

Also, Mitchell won the Favorite New Character Award from the Spaceys a couple month's ago, and Vala came in second. This is an award that is dependent on fan votes. If these characters were so hated offline, they would've come in last, not first and second!

The thing is, SG in general has been slipping. It's JUST SG-1, which a lot of people continue to forget. THe Monday night reruns were pulled because they aren't doing as well as before -- and those are Seasons 1-8. Mitchell and Vala aren't in them! And the syndication ratings have been going down. Plus, Atlantis gets virtually the SAME ratings as SG-1. It's still around, presumably because it's newer and less expensive to produce.

Plus, we can't ignore the fact that both gates are on opposite very popular shows on other channels, such as Monk and Psych. That eats into the ratings too. And finally, the American dollar is weak in Canada, which makes everything more expensive.

It's easy to blame two characters and take out all of your frustrations on them but it's not logical and it's not fair.

Oh, I blame the writers for writing the characters that way. That's both logical and fair.

Agreed that putting the show against such still competition didn't help. But that implies people stopped watching the show to watch something else. Perhaps because the show is no longer as entertaning?

Stagate Mondays have been on almostevery weekfor over 3 years. Of course that ratings will go down in that amount of time. It's not like they went down over the course of a few months. It took years! or SciFi would have pulled them sooner. Though I'd really like to see hard numbers on the Monday stripes. Part of me wonders if Sci Fi was trying to force people to get their Stargate fix from S9. Not a chance, buckies!If you (general)wanna watch them that often you (general) go out and buy the DVDs so you don't have commercials.

Sure the Canadian dollar is stronger and that makes everything more expensive. But if the ratings had not nosedived there would have been less reason to cancel. Still, I'm also pretty sure S10 being the last has been a done deal for quite a while.

Suse

[ShardsofGlass]

Oh, I blame the writers for writing the characters that way. That's both logical and fair.

Suse

Well, obviously the writers write the characters the way they are. But what's not fair is when people (general) blame the cancellation on their own personal opinions about a couple of characters on the show, especially when there are many other factors to consider like the strength of the US dollar, ratings, competition, the age of the show, the waning interest of people in the franchise, etc.

Also, there's also the fact that we don't know how many people started watching when Ben and Claudia joined the show. We truly don't. It's possible that the ratings would've been just as strong in the beginning of S9 without them, but it's just as likely that the ratings would've gone down right from the beginning and there wouldn't have been a Season 10.

I'll tell you right now, that I've tried to watch SG-1 since it came to Scifi many times, and I just couldn't get into it until they brought Ben Browder on board. So here's some anecdotal evidence of at least one fan who joined the show in Season 9. I'm sure I'm not alone. In fact, I know I'm not alone. And in my opinion the writing is the same or better than any of the other seasons I've tried to watch.