The Cam and Vala discussion thread

[AGateFan]

Judging from the show so far....they really put these guys up front...
It would appear having Cam and Vala was the major plan to keep
the show going. It definitely made sense with the popularity of
Farscape. Frankly I would think the 2 to 3 million viewers of both shows
would have made a difference in the viewership. Not to mention Stargate is very popular with the US military folks....

I dunno what happend..... can only guess....

Maybe the movies can change things.... The show as I recall was doing great in season 9...at
least they were getting close to 2 million viewers as I recall.

So you have a show thats doing decent in the ratings.
You then change the show to put these new fellows "up front" whom you got from farscape. Your theory is that now the show should have farscape and stargate fans and should have even higher ratings.

My theory is that now the show is no longer stargate and it certainly isnt farscape so there is no longer any reason for either of those fanbases to watch except to see some actors they like play entirely different characters*. This show now has to build it's own fanbase.

Since it is a pretty cliche cheesey scifi show and not the classic that Stargate was or the avant gaurd that Farscape was it will be quite difficult for this new fanbase building to happen. Especially with the fanbases of the characters these actors previously played watching and saying to themselves WTH (yes I know not all of them did but I am sure some of them did. Aeryn Sun was cool...pigtail vala... WTH). Many farscape fans always though\said the writing of Stargate was "subpar in their opinion" throwing two-four new actors in wont change that. Especially if they are just making those characters up as they go as it appears they are doing with Cam and to some extent with Vala as they are continously backtracking and doing damage control...

(cam is a great soldier....Cam is a goof... no cam is a jaffa kung fu master...no cam is a serious and grumpy guy...no cam is special forces...no cam is a motorcycle trick artist...cam never saw a stargate before in person...cam is qualified to lead the #1 stargate team because leading SG-14 and gaurding scientist or something would be too beneath him...or too above him...WTH who knows.)

(Vala is a great soldier who can take out an entire ship of US military personel. Shes a genius who can figure out how the prometheus works and break all the codes on the ship with little effort. She does not care about the lives of the people she strands in space as long as she makes her money. She is supposed to be a good con artist. Oh wait, vala is a vamp just a maybournesq like character, she didnt really mean to leave those peopel to die for money and she didnt know that bracelett would kill her along with daniel when she put it on him. Shes not doesnt really think a head you know, shes a con artist but not really a "thinker" on the big picture and just spews whatever comes from her mouth. Oh wait, vala is just a broken little child with a crush on daniel, she spews whatever comes from her mouth because she as the emotional matureity of a six year old...see the pig tails. Awe she so cute and fun and soo soo trustworthy. She would never harm a fly and has such undieing loyalty to earth because...um because...um she likes Daniel, yeah thats it...... WTH whatever.)

Wow that got offtrack this cough medician is narley....
Anyway the just because you bring two characters over from farscape and put them on stargate doesnt make the fanbase bigger when the show ISNT farscape or even stargate anymore.

*except AT and CJ who play the same character but have no lines and are made to do uncharacteristic things to move the story along.

[Rogue]

So you have a show thats doing decent in the ratings.
You then change the show to put these new fellows "up front" whom you got from farscape. Your theory is that now the show should have farscape and stargate fans and should have even higher ratings.

My theory is that now the show is no longer stargate and it certainly isnt farscape so there is no longer any reason for either of those fanbases to watch except to see some actors they like play entirely different characters*. This show now has to build it's own fanbase.

Since it is a pretty cliche cheesey scifi show and not the classic that Stargate was or the avant gaurd that Farscape was it will be quite difficult for this new fanbase building to happen. Especially with the fanbases of the characters these actors previously played watching and saying to themselves WTH (yes I know not all of them did but I am sure some of them did. Aeryn Sun was cool...pigtail vala... WTH). Many farscape fans always though\said the writing of Stargate was "subpar in their opinion" throwing two-four new actors in wont change that. Especially if they are just making those characters up as they go as it appears they are doing with Cam and to some extent with Vala as they are continously backtracking and doing damage control...

(cam is a great soldier....Cam is a goof... no cam is a jaffa kung fu master...no cam is a serious and grumpy guy...no cam is special forces...no cam is a motorcycle trick artist...cam never saw a stargate before in person...cam is qualified to lead the #1 stargate team because leading SG-14 and gaurding scientist or something would be too beneath him...or too above him...WTH who knows.)

(Vala is a great soldier who can take out an entire ship of US military personel. Shes a genius who can figure out how the prometheus works and break all the codes on the ship with little effort. She does not care about the lives of the people she strands in space as long as she makes her money. She is supposed to be a good con artist. Oh wait, vala is a vamp just a maybournesq like character, she didnt really mean to leave those peopel to die for money and she didnt know that bracelett would kill her along with daniel when she put it on him. Shes not doesnt really think a head you know, shes a con artist but not really a "thinker" on the big picture and just spews whatever comes from her mouth. Oh wait, vala is just a broken little child with a crush on daniel, she spews whatever comes from her mouth because she as the emotional matureity of a six year old...see the pig tails. Awe she so cute and fun and soo soo trustworthy. She would never harm a fly and has such undieing loyalty to earth because...um because...um she likes Daniel, yeah thats it...... WTH whatever.)

Wow that got offtrack this cough medician is narley....
Anyway the just because you bring two characters over from farscape and put them on stargate doesnt make the fanbase bigger when the show ISNT farscape or even stargate anymore.

*except AT and CJ who play the same character but have no lines and are made to do uncharacteristic things to move the story along.

Cam and Vala suffer from multiple personality disorder. All that is missing is individual names for the personalities.

[ReganX]

Judging from the show so far....they really put these guys up front...
It would appear having Cam and Vala was the major plan to keep
the show going. It definitely made sense with the popularity of
Farscape. Frankly I would think the 2 to 3 million viewers of both shows
would have made a difference in the viewership. Not to mention Stargate is very popular with the US military folks....

I dunno what happend..... can only guess....

Maybe the movies can change things.... The show as I recall was doing great in season 9...at
least they were getting close to 2 million viewers as I recall.

I don't doubt that Cam and Vala - or, more accurately, BB and CB - were brought in to help keep the franchise alive and give it a boost to compensate for the fans that would leave with RDA but it doesn't matter how many new viewers are wooed to a show if as many or more viewers are lost in the process.

Bringing BB and CB onboard is something that could, if handled differently, have strengthened the ratings but pushing them front and center at the expense of established characters was a huge mistake - not only are viewers who like the established characters turned off by it, other viewers who might have been neutral or even hopeful about the new characters at first could quickly begin to dislike them if their presence is associated with a decrease in focus on their own favourite.

That BB and CB were hired is not a problem. How their characters were introduced and handled is.

[pittsburghgirl]

I don't doubt that Cam and Vala - or, more accurately, BB and CB - were brought in to help keep the franchise alive and give it a boost to compensate for the fans that would leave with RDA but it doesn't matter how many new viewers are wooed to a show if as many or more viewers are lost in the process.

Bringing BB and CB onboard is something that could, if handled differently, have strengthened the ratings but pushing them front and center at the expense of established characters was a huge mistake - not only are viewers who like the established characters turned off by it, other viewers who might have been neutral or even hopeful about the new characters at first could quickly begin to dislike them if their presence is associated with a decrease in focus on their own favourite.

That BB and CB were hired is not a problem. How their characters were introduced and handled is.

Amen!

[Skydiver]

precisely.

Many of us have made suggestions of ways that cam and vala could have been brought into the show...just in a way that was more in line with the show's 8 year history

[Jackie]

When I first heard Ben was going to be on Stargate, my feeling was that if anyone was going to try to fill RDA's boots, Ben was one of the best possible actors to take up the challenge. After watching for a few weeks, though, I realized that Cameron Mitchell could never ever even begin to fill Jack O'Neill's boots and the major part of that had to do with the writing. Cameron Mitchell isn't, and never will be comparable to Jack O'Neill, IMO.

John Crichton, though...I would have loved to have seen a crossover with O'Neill and Crichton.

Aerun Sun and John Chriton would have been huge to stargate--Cam and Val--not so huge.

Cam and Vala suffer from multiple personality disorder. All that is missing is individual names for the personalities.

That just reflects Coopers indecisiveness in the whole stargate franchise. We could continue that MPD to include: Daniel, Carter, Thor, SGA cast too.

Daniel is the kind, soft, smart, morally correct and yet he is the though, action, shoot first, harsh, muscular brute.

Carter is the genius, serious, open and aggressive soldier, and is also the shy, quiet, peaceful, not a good leader, is a great leader, has lots of computer knowledge but knows nothing about the Ori computers.

Thor:

Spoiler:

WTF--Thor ain't suicidal! Cooper screwed up big with that hat trick. Way OOC!

[esoap524]

I don't doubt that Cam and Vala - or, more accurately, BB and CB - were brought in to help keep the franchise alive and give it a boost to compensate for the fans that would leave with RDA but it doesn't matter how many new viewers are wooed to a show if as many or more viewers are lost in the process.

Bringing BB and CB onboard is something that could, if handled differently, have strengthened the ratings but pushing them front and center at the expense of established characters was a huge mistake - not only are viewers who like the established characters turned off by it, other viewers who might have been neutral or even hopeful about the new characters at first could quickly begin to dislike them if their presence is associated with a decrease in focus on their own favourite.

That BB and CB were hired is not a problem. How their characters were introduced and handled is.

Indeed!

Frankly, I think the network likes both actors (why not? They're good actors). But my friends who didn't watch SG1 previously and loved Farscape, still don't watch SG1, and one of them actually hates that CB plays someone like Vala when she previously played Aeryn Sun--to my friend, Vala is so far beneath what was done with Aeryn.

And they all say poor Ben is reduced to some window dressing and isn't given much to do (this is based on season 10 where Mitchell stands around a lot more).

So, hiring them was not going to be a solution. It was just partial--the roles are cast with competent, likeable actors with genre experience. The characters still need to be written, solidly. The Farscape writers did it with Aeryn Sun and John Crichton--wrote solid, believable, consistent characters and had these good actors portray them. SG1 did it as well.

So why not this time around? That's the part I don't get.

[petemoretti]

Indeed!

Frankly, I think the network likes both actors (why not? They're good actors). But my friends who didn't watch SG1 previously and loved Farscape, still don't watch SG1, and one of them actually hates that CB plays someone like Vala when she previously played Aeryn Sun--to my friend, Vala is so far beneath what was done with Aeryn.

And they all say poor Ben is reduced to some window dressing and isn't given much to do (this is based on season 10 where Mitchell stands around a lot more).

So, hiring them was not going to be a solution. It was just partial--the roles are cast with competent, likeable actors with genre experience. The characters still need to be written, solidly. The Farscape writers did it with Aeryn Sun and John Crichton--wrote solid, believable, consistent characters and had these good actors portray them. SG1 did it as well.

So why not this time around? That's the part I don't get.

Plus the fact that BB, CB and Beau aren't cheap ! The costs must have skyrocketed in S9 !
I wonder should they have hired cheaper, less known actors (like JF and TH in Atlantis) we would still get a S11 (I don't think the ratings would have been lower but the cost surely would have been)

So maybe it wasn't just Cam/Vala/Landry's writing that killed the show but also a little bit of BB, CB and BB (with regard to their higher salaries compared to less known actors which could have been hired for Cam/Vala/Landry's part). All in all i think TPTB don't have a clue about balancing a budget and I wouldn't even trust them buying my groceries !!!

[AGateFan]

Plus the fact that BB, CB and Beau aren't cheap ! The costs must have skyrocketed in S9 !
I wonder should they have hired cheaper, less known actors (like JF and TH in Atlantis) we would still get a S11 (I don't think the ratings would have been lower but the cost surely would have been)

So maybe it wasn't just Cam/Vala/Landry's writing that killed the show but also a little bit of BB, CB and BB (with regard to their higher salaries compared to less known actors which could have been hired for Cam/Vala/Landry's part). All in all i think TPTB don't have a clue about balancing a budget and I wouldn't even trust them buying my groceries !!!

I never understood the Beau Bridges and Louis Gossett signings for just this reason. They waste Gossett and Bridges even though hes a main cast member is wasted on the badly written Landry character. Plus it must add mightly to your cost. And I cant beleive the fans of Bridges other work would come watch stargate just because hes on it. I see no benifit to this cost.

Unless of course hes working cheap. There was indication that Gossett was a fan of the show so he may have worked cheap but then got scrwed out of the General role and given that lame jaffa role. And it was lame, it was a waste, he could have done so much more.

[pittsburghgirl]

you know esaop524-that is the part that none of us gets.

I was happy to hear about BB joining the cast and I loved CB as Aeryn Sun and thought that maybe they might write Vala differently-but they took the two of them and threw them into the mix without thinking about what it would do to the recipe-you start out making bread and ended up with split pea soup and thought-whoa-cool.

[Skydiver]

it was one thing to - let's presume - follow scifi's directives and hire ben and claudia - going under the presumption that scifi felt 'hey, you lost your name, let's find some more...look at this, ben and claudia are fantastically popular amongst fans and whatta ya know, they're available'

but the worse than that that, presuming that ben an claudia were hired cause scifi wanted them hired, was that the writers wasted them. they took these two good actors and stuck them playing these silly lampoons of characters.

either the writers lacked the skill to adequately handle the actors...or they were so resentful at being told who they were hiring that they thumbed thier noses at scifi and screwed the pooch.

either way, it's a lose/lose situation because these actors could have revived the franchise and sped it along the way to a ratings success. but instead they were wasted and 'abused' (as in thier talents not being fully utalized) and the show died.

and no amount of promos could have changed that, no matter what the writers want to believe

[AGateFan]

it was one thing to - let's presume - follow scifi's directives and hire ben and claudia - going under the presumption that scifi felt 'hey, you lost your name, let's find some more...look at this, ben and claudia are fantastically popular amongst fans and whatta ya know, they're available'

but the worse than that that, presuming that ben an claudia were hired cause scifi wanted them hired, was that the writers wasted them. they took these two good actors and stuck them playing these silly lampoons of characters.

either the writers lacked the skill to adequately handle the actors...or they were so resentful at being told who they were hiring that they thumbed thier noses at scifi and screwed the pooch.

either way, it's a lose/lose situation because these actors could have revived the franchise and sped it along the way to a ratings success. but instead they were wasted and 'abused' (as in thier talents not being fully utalized) and the show died.

and no amount of promos could have changed that, no matter what the writers want to believe

See I dont think the franchise needed to be "revived". Maybe they could have helped Extend it after RDA left. But judging from the S9 premire I think people were willing to give it a chance. Had the new characters been intergrated into stargate instead of resetting stargate and making it a new show I think BB and CB could have helped it continue. But they chose otherwise.

[Skydiver]

well, by 'revive' i mean that it DID need new characters. It did need somene to fill jack's shoes. and with amanda's family, the other actors all having children, to me it seems a no-brainer that they'd want to cut down their time on the show to spend time with thier families...thus it seems to make sense tome that the the show would be needing some 'fresh blood'...folks to fill in the gaps and help to carry the burden of the show...folks that could - eventually - 'carry' a new show should any of hte original 3 decide to call it a day.

If the show had lasted a few more years there could have been a gradual shift from the original sg1 to the 'new' sg1, with a - hopefully - seamless transition from the old to the new and a gradual passing of the torch.

That's what i mean by reviving it. folks who could bring fresh blood into the mix

but instead of a gradual and respectful passing of the torch, we got a slam bam thank you maam switch as the recipe of the show changed by about 180 degrees and was handled with all the grace of a pregnant cow on ice.

and then when the fans laughed at the absurdity...we were mocked and made fun of for not appreciating the hilarity of said cow tripping and falling pathetically

[esoap524]

you know esaop524-that is the part that none of us gets.

I was happy to hear about BB joining the cast and I loved CB as Aeryn Sun and thought that maybe they might write Vala differently-but they took the two of them and threw them into the mix without thinking about what it would do to the recipe-you start out making bread and ended up with split pea soup and thought-whoa-cool.

I do watch SG1 because of BB and CB, whereas I didn't watch before, but none of my friends do. Both characters had a lot of potential, it seems, and I really liked the idea of Vala as a female Han Solo, or possibly even, an Aeryn Sun with a much lighter touch. CB, to her credit, has tried to find shades within Vala, especially when she's playing off Tomin or Adria, but those opportunities are usually overshadowed by the Daniel/Vala stuff which is often just silliness.

As a Claudia fan, sure, it's nice to see her do some comedy after playing Aeryn, but she can do so much more even within that comedic role.

Poor Mitchell--they just decided gung ho sci fi guy and put Ben in that role. It's not till "Unending"

Spoiler:

when Mitchell pitches a fit that I truly saw the potential in that character, the constant yearning for adventure, the impatience, the desire for emotional connection,

that it really hit me what Mitchell could have been. And it also reminded me that Ben's a damned fine actor too.

And that is really sad because it's a waste of two marvelous actors, imo who at least (I thought) had a good chemistry with the existing cast.

[Skydiver]

Poor Mitchell--they just decided gung ho sci fi guy and put Ben in that role. It's not till "Unending"

Spoiler:

when Mitchell pitches a fit that I truly saw the potential in that character, the constant yearning for adventure, the impatience, the desire for emotional connection,

that it really hit me what Mitchell could have been. And it also reminded me that Ben's a damned fine actor too.

And that is really sad because it's a waste of two marvelous actors, imo who at least (I thought) had a good chemistry with the existing cast.

that could have been some great motivation for his character from the beginning. a 'i was once crippled, now i'm not but i could be again so i'm gonna do all i can when i can as much as i can' manicness to him

that would eventually have to culmonate in a 'come to jesus' moment with him and the realization that it's not a game

but it could be some great motivation and insight into him

too bad they ignored that for the quick and easy yuk fest